Male Side of Gender Issues

[Samuelx]

Well, I've decided to add a little diversity to the politics. Ever hear of domestic violence ? I bet you have. It's everywhere. What most people think of when they think of domestic violence is the image of a violent man hurting his woman and/or children. That's just ONE side of the story.


Ever hear of violent women ?


How about male victims of domestic violence ? Did you know that 50 percent of the time, it's the female who strikes first ? I bet you didn't know that. Also, did you know that in the eyes of the law, men's lives don't matter ?


Here are some links.


http://www.menweb.org/throop/battery/studies/by-gender.html


http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/womensviolence.html


Did you know that false allegations of rape made by vindictive females against innocent men are common ?


http://www.falseallegations.com/


Did you know that many vindictive mothers turn their children against the
father and often make false allegations against him ?


http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/malice.htm


Did you know of the new organizations which helps male victims of domestic violence ?


www.batteredmenshelpline.org
www.safe4all.org


Finally, there's a place where you can get accurate news about men's issues around the globe.

www.mensactivism.org
www.angryharry.com
www.mediaradar.org



Keep those issues in mind. They never make the front page but these stories are true. Men are under attack in western culture, in more ways than one.

 

[mack_the_knife]

I await the 'but men did it for centuries' reasoning for it. We now suffer for the sins of our fathers. That's fair, I suppose.

 

[Samuelx]

I'm not responsible for the actions of any man other than myself. I don't like to see any Amazon/feminist types blaming me just for being a man. I call them man-haters and I don't associate with them. It's one thing to speak for women's rights, it's quite another to have an anti-male agenda. Feminazis are the scum of the earth. I don't like to see them invade GLBT places. They're not our friends. They're not friends with anyone. They're simply evil.

 

[cloudy]

I'm not responsible for the actions of any man other than myself. I don't like to see any Amazon/feminist types blaming me just for being a man. I call them man-haters and I don't associate with them. It's one thing to speak for women's rights, it's quite another to have an anti-male agenda. Feminazis are the scum of the earth. I don't like to see them invade GLBT places. They're not our friends. They're not friends with anyone. They're simply evil.

1) This is not a GLBT place....are you lost?

2) I know that women abusing men happens, but let's be fair, shall we? Let's see the numbers of women abused by men vs. men abused by women. Oh, wait....that might not work for your agenda. I've been/currently am in an abusive situation, and I promise, if I hit him, it's not me hitting him first, it's me defending myself....AND since I weigh 130 lbs soaking wet, and he comes damn close to 200 lbs, I think that we can safely assume that I can do very little damage.

Abuse is horrible, no matter who perpetrates it.

disclaimer: I am in no way, shape, or form a manhater, and my friends here can attest to that.

 

[mack_the_knife]

According to the US Justice Department and the Centers for Prevention & Disease control 1998 report, over 1/3 of all batterers involved in domestic violence were wives or girlfriends. Are you a victim and don't know it? Are you willing to take the chance that you could "die of embarrassment" or are you willing to admit it?

In 1998 there were 2,335,000 reported cases of spousal abuse. 1,500,00 women were abused by their husbands or boyfriends. However, many that haven't been around or heard the stories over the years were shocked to see that 835,000 men were battered by their wives or girlfriends which represent over 1/3 of all domestic violence cases. Other reports by the U. S. Justice Department showed that "out of 8,000 men surveyed, 9.7% of male domestic violence victims took out restraining orders. Out of 8,000 women surveyed, 68% violated restraining orders. And, each year, approximately 1 in 1,000 men report violent victimization by an intimate." This doesn't count emotional or verbal abuse.

I think 1 in 3 is adequate to make it a valid argument on his part. I suppose Spike should start running movies where the ex-wife stalks the husband to make the point. Does it happening to only one man per two women invalidate the concern? He is simply saying that it is inadequately reported and the men given little support from the community or culture.

 

[cloudy]

I think 1 in 3 is adequate to make it a valid argument on his part. I suppose Spike should start running movies where the ex-wife stalks the husband to make the point. Does it happening to only one man per two women invalidate the concern? He is simply saying that it is inadequately reported and the men given little support from the community or culture.

No, it's not an invalid issue, and if you carefully read my post, I think you'll see what I said, instead of what you want me to say.

edited to add: 1998? Surely you can do better than that.

 

[oggbashan]

I have some reservations about the statistics that are in the first post of this thread.

Domestic violence is a fact. Some men suffer it but not as many as women. The elderly are particularly vulnerable to abuse by the younger relations and/or carers.

Whoever does it to whom - it is wrong.

Abuse can be more than hitting. Verbal and psychological abuse can destroy a person's self-esteem. Constant belittling of the partner can be very destructive.

The abuser often claims that is the abused person's fault. That is very difficult for a damaged person to overcome.

There is help available. The abused person find that taking the first step to accept that they need help is the hardest. If the person or agency they approach doesn't react appropriately that step may not stop the abuse and can lead to more despair.

Believe that it happens - to women, to men, to parents, to children and can happen to almost anyone. It is not confined to trailer parks and slums and can be hidden inside a mansion.

If it is happening to a friend - be there for them BUT get professional help.

Og

 

[rgraham666]

Abuse is abuse.

I don't care what the gender of either perpetrator or victim is.

It's wrong.

 

[cloudy]

Abuse is horrible, no matter who perpetrates it.

funny, how no one seems to have seen this part of my post.

 

[mack_the_knife]

No, it's not an invalid issue, and if you carefully read my post, I think you'll see what I said, instead of what you want me to say.

edited to add: 1998? Surely you can do better than that.

You instantly tried to shift everything back to the status quo by saying his point was moot because the numbers weren't in agreement with his assertion. Implying that only a tiny minority of men were affected as compared to the huge number of women. I argue that 1/3 of all cases is no paltry thing. How about 1/3 the federal, charitable, social support, and televison air time going to the abused men?

As far as the dating of the material. I really doubt the numbers have shifted a lot in a mere 7 years.

As an impersonal bystander (who neither abuses nor has been abused) I don't know the veracity of the quoted statistics, nor their source. However, going by what statistics were given, if they were interpreted correctly, it shows a huge number of abuse cases on both sides of the gender line.

I don't doubt that everyone here abhors abuse. I think he was simply trying to draw attention to the fact that abuse upon male partners is underreported and undersupported.

 

[cloudy]

You instantly tried to shift everything back to the status quo by saying his point was moot because the numbers weren't in agreement with his assertion. Implying that only a tiny minority of men were affected as compared to the huge number of women. I argue that 1/3 of all cases is no paltry thing. How about 1/3 the federal, charitable, social support, and televison air time going to the abused men?

As far as the dating of the material. I really doubt the numbers have shifted a lot in a mere 7 years.

oh, bullshit! Go back and read what I said, and this time, don't insert what you want to see.

asshole.

 

[Liar]

Uuh...like...doesn't violence always suck?

 

[cloudy]

Abuse is horrible, no matter who perpetrates it.

Since some seem to conveniently ignore what I said, I'll just make it bigger.

 

[mack_the_knife]

oh, bullshit! Go back and read what I said, and this time, don't insert what you want to see.

asshole.

Um...wow.

I know that women abusing men happens, but let's be fair, shall we? Let's see the numbers of women abused by men vs. men abused by women. Oh, wait....that might not work for your agenda.

And I showed you. But apparently data collected 7 years ago is to be discounted due to age and it not fitting your agenda.

And I'm an asshole.

 

[cloudy]

Um...wow.

And I showed you. But apparently data collected 7 years ago is to be discounted due to age and it not fitting your agenda.

And I'm an asshole.

Yes, you are, because you're conveniently ignoring the rest of my post so that you can make it mean what you want it to mean.

When you want to honestly discuss something, then maybe we can, but as long as you insist on twisting my words to fit some pathological twist in your mind, then discussion isn't possible, is it?

Beside, go back and read his first post where he equates abused women with "feminazis."

Isn't that convenient? - you ignored that. Hmmm....seems you have quite a habit of that.

edited to add: and just why would it be UNFAIR to show the whole numbers?

 

[Guest]

Well, I've decided to add a little diversity to the politics. Ever hear of domestic violence ? I bet you have. It's everywhere. What most people think of when they think of domestic violence is the image of a violent man hurting his woman and/or children. That's just ONE side of the story.

Ever hear of violent women ?

How about male victims of domestic violence ? Did you know that 50 percent of the time, it's the female who strikes first ? I bet you didn't know that. Also, did you know that in the eyes of the law, men's lives don't matter ?

Did you know that many vindictive mothers turn their children against the
father and often make false allegations against him ?

Did you know of the new organizations which helps male victims of domestic violence ?

Finally, there's a place where you can get accurate news about men's issues around the globe.

Keep those issues in mind. They never make the front page but these stories are true. Men are under attack in western culture, in more ways than one.

Of course spousal violence is horrific. And no one here is disputing that men are also victims. Women are still in the majority, however. And to discount that fact to promote the opposite isn't going to win your position.

Generally, men possess more upper body strength due to their physical construction. The male can punch harder, even if the female is of equal body weight. Even if the female is physically trained.

(That's why in martial arts training I've developed my kicks more than my punches. I cannot out-strength an opponent so I use my brain, get inside his reach, avoid his punches.)

Samuelx, this sounds very personal to you, and I'm sorry for your experiences.

 

[cloudy]

Of course spousal violence is horrific. And no one here is disputing that men are also victims. Women are still in the majority, however. And to discount that fact to promote the opposite isn't going to win your position.

Thank you.

 

[CharleyH]

Well, I've decided to add a little diversity to the politics. Ever hear of domestic violence ? I bet you have. It's everywhere. What most people think of when they think of domestic violence is the image of a violent man hurting his woman and/or children. That's just ONE side of the story.


Ever hear of violent women ?

Most certainly.

Raison D'etre

 

[mack_the_knife]

Of course spousal violence is horrific. And no one here is disputing that men are also victims. Women are still in the majority, however. And to discount that fact to promote the opposite isn't going to win your position.

Generally, men possess more upper body strength due to their physical construction. The male can punch harder, even if the female is of equal body weight. Even if the female is physically trained.

(That's why in martial arts training I've developed my kicks more than my punches. I cannot out-strength an opponent so I use my brain, get inside his reach, avoid his punches.)

Samuelx, this sounds very personal to you, and I'm sorry for your experiences.

I discount nothing. I simply believe that husband/boyfriend abuse is underreported and undersupported and that there is an anti-male bias in our culture today.

I don't begrudge any assistance given to women in an abusive situation, and i've never understood why anyone will remain in one once they know it for what it is.

Edited to add - Not sure where the personal attack upon me originated, but I appreciate the textual attack.

 

[cloudy]

i've never understood why anyone will remain in one once they know it for what it is.

Obviously, you've never been in that situation, or you wouldn't make such an uniformed statement.

Just leave. Mm-hmmm.



I'm sorry, you're taking the brunt of my temper on this, but there's WAY more involved than "just leave."

 

[mack_the_knife]

Obviously, you've never been in that situation, or you wouldn't make such an uniformed statement.

Just leave. Mm-hmmm.



I'm sorry, you're taking the brunt of my temper on this, but there's WAY more involved than "just leave."

Wrong. I had a live-in girlfriend who hit me regularly, granted she didn't do any real damage, but it was annoying. No, in truth I've never counted myself abused, simply annoyed. I suppose the browbeating my mother does to my dad might be verbal abuse, but again, not to the level of true abuse, simply annoyance.

I'm terrible sorry that you've been in abusive situation(s), and wish that it were not so. I also know that 'just leaving' isn't that easy for various reasons (emotional, financial, sociological, etc), however, I really don't see options around that outcome, unless the abuser stops.

 

[cloudy]

Wrong. I had a live-in girlfriend who hit me regularly, granted she didn't do any real damage, but it was annoying. No, in truth I've never counted myself abused, simply annoyed. I suppose the browbeating my mother does to my dad might be verbal abuse, but again, not to the level of true abuse, simply annoyance.

I'm terrible sorry that you've been in abusive situation(s), and wish that it were not so. I also know that 'just leaving' isn't that easy for various reasons (emotional, financial, sociological, etc), however, I really don't see options around that outcome, unless the abuser stops.

Exactly. There are NO options.

 

[Guest]

I discount nothing. I simply believe that husband/boyfriend abuse is underreported and undersupported and that there is an anti-male bias in our culture today.

I don't begrudge any assistance given to women in an abusive situation, and i've never understood why anyone will remain in one once they know it for what it is.

Edited to add - Not sure where the personal attack upon me originated, but I appreciate the textual attack.

My post wasn't directed at you, but at Samuelx, the starter of the thread.

And I had no quibble with you, until you said this:

. . . i've never understood why anyone will remain in one once they know it for what it is.

That shows a complete lack of empathy, an unwillingness to imagine what the abused spouse must endure. You don't think there might be financial reasons, shame over the situation, their own children to think of, threats of death from the abuser, perhaps?

I think it is that particular mindset that forces many abused spouses, female and male, to keep their situation secret.

 

[English Lady]

In his relationship before he met me, my husband was abused. mentally, sexually and physically, the las straw came sometime after he ended up hospitalised when she stabbed him in the chest with a bloody big knife.


I don't know much about statistics, but i do know abuse happens to guys and I think it might be difficult for them to get help or even to accept it because of this culture thing of "big boys don't cry."


It's an emotional issue, so everyone's emotions are up and thats why there are such strong posts here.

Abuse is wrong, all abuse is wrong and it needs to be rooted out and the victims need to be cared for.

Samuelx -hello, and wow, what a post to get folks talkin'! We're an emoitional bunch aroud here, and rightly so on a subject like this.

 

[mack_the_knife]

I don't know much about statistics, but i do know abuse happens to guys and I think it might be difficult for them to get help or even to accept it because of this culture thing of "big boys don't cry."

That was what I was trying to say. I don't see any homes for abused husbands about, nor even a protective services division specializing in it. It's ignored, and that was the point of this thread, I think. To acknowledge that men are abused, and in huge numbers, does not take a single thing from abused women.

I won't even get involved in the way courts handle fathers in divorce cases, that is yet another can of worms.