Making the reader finish

[MelissaBaby]

Umm... Write a better story?

Yeah, I'd like to make some substantive contribution here, but I am forced to fall back on Melissa's Principle: Write better stories, get better results.

 

[ThatNewGuy]

The easy answer is to start in media res. I despise it because it feels not only like a cheap trick but basically like straight-up cheating. It gets the reader invested into the scene, only to pull over to a screeching halt when you finally get the end and realize that this was just a teaser before we get to the "real" story. What follows after is usually a vulgar info dump of raw exposition, since the author feels like he "earned it" by essentially reordering two scenes from the draft and adding a few sentences of perfunctory glue.

I think starting in media res is fine. I definitely don't consider it cheating. But I agree that poorly executed in media res, as you've described above, is extra annoying. An exposition dump is awful, whether it comes at the beginning of the story or after the opening scene. Yuck.

 

[SimonDoom]

Why? 78.329% of all stats are made up on the spot. I read it on the internet.

As Abraham Lincoln famously said, "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."

 

[8letters]

First bit of advice - unless you're publishing in SF&F, don't publish a series. Just don't. You don't get the views that you would get with a stand-alone story, and every chapter is an opportunity for the reader to stop reading.

Actually, based on my reading habits, the challenge is to get the reader to read the middle of the story. I'll start reading a story, Ashton meets Mila, I like Ashton and Mila, it's clear where things are going, so I'll skip to the end where they are (hopefully) having sex. For most stories, I feel like I didn't miss anything.

 

[StillStunned]

I think you're overlooking a few important factors.

The votes/view ratio isn't constant. It's higher when a story is new than it is when a story has been around for a month+. If you look at the average over time, then the ratio gradually drops. The ratio can also change substantially for short periods of time after you post a new story.

I'm sure you're both right, and you make interesting and valid points. But better discussed in a thread about the stats, rather than a discussion about writing craft.

Maybe talk to Bamagan:

This is where I stopped reading. I was hoping for more stats.
3

Edit: I'm not trying to crap on your replies. But we all know how quickly threads can get sidetracked, and I'd rather keep this focused on positive writing advice than becoming an argument about statistics.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

So what do you do as writers to hold that attention beyond the first couple of paragraphs?

As the Bard said, "There in lies the rub..." and the Lit corrolary, "how do you get them to tug?"

It comes down to your style as a writer, most of my stories are character driven, so my goal is to get you invested in the character. Wanting to learn more about them, find out what they are doing, what's going to happen to them.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

Okay, you made me read, but you didn't make me cum. I'm @StillStunned with that. One star.

 

[Bamagan]

I'm sure you're both right, and you make interesting and valid points. But better discussed in a thread about the stats, rather than a discussion about writing craft.

Maybe talk to Bamagan:


Edit: I'm not trying to crap on your replies. But we all know how quickly threads can get sidetracked, and I'd rather keep this focused on positive writing advice than becoming an argument about statistics.

Hey, you opened with a humblebrag, you gotta be prepared for reciprocal humblebrags!
Anyway, I was lying about wanting more stats. I just needed a plausible excuse for downvoting you.

 

[SimonDoom]

I find it hard to use "views" for anything quantitative. Views are a measure of traffic, and nothing more. To get from a view to a vote, the process is like: open the story->read->form an opinion->vote. There are too many hurdles between opening the story (a view) and casting a vote. It's hard to expect a very meaningful relationship between them.

Views are RELATIVELY useful. The reason I say that is that while view:vote ratios can vary, they don't typically vary that much. For normal length stories, my view:vote ratio ranges from about 47:1 to 200:1, and those two numbers are outliers. What that means is that, while if I know a story has 100,000 views I don't know how many actual reads it has, I can say with great confidence that it has many more views than a story with 20,000 views.

What I've noticed that's curious as well is that while the view:vote ratio shrinks over time in a series, it doesn't do so as much as I would expect, and after a few chapters the ratio may not change at all. This surprised me. Intuitively, I would expect a dramatic change, indicating that for later stories the only people clicking on them are those who've read the previous chapters, but this isn't what I'm seeing from the data. I think what's happening is that new readers will click on "Erotic Story Chapter 37" to see if it looks interesting, and use that click to then navigate to the beginning of the story.

 

[Writer61]

I originally thought about calling the thread "Holding the reader's attention". I suspect it would have about three replies by now.

I am reminded of the line from the legendary cricket commentator Brian Johnstone, "the bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey".

There's no evidence that he ever said it during commentary, but it enlivened his after-dinner speeches for many years.

 

[Writer61]

First bit of advice - unless you're publishing in SF&F, don't publish a series. Just don't. You don't get the views that you would get with a stand-alone story, and every chapter is an opportunity for the reader to stop reading.

I have three series, two EV and one EC, averaging over 4.5.

 

[iwatchus]

How much of a variance do others see in votes/view by category. I see a tremendous variation. In my personally limited selection, I see a drop in votes/view on series; I know as a reader I often voted only for the first story unless a later story really impressed me (or disappointed me).

And I expect that there is a relationship with length. If I open a story and see that it is long when I am only interested in making a short commitment, I will close it and move on to another. It's part of why I really want some length indicator for readers before opening.

I also suspect any kind of warning in the author's note will scare off some readers who will already counts as views.

 

[8letters]

I have three series, two EV and one EC, averaging over 4.5.

I suggest you try this experiment - take one of your series down and republish it as a stand-alone story. I think you'll like the results, but I could be wrong.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Making the reader finish​

Relieved to find that this thread is not about my initial assumption.

The irony is that if you do make the reader finish, they're less likely to finish.

I'm not sure how making the reader Finnish affects either of those.

 

[iwatchus]

And this thread merges with the discussion of strokers.

 

[ThatNewGuy]

How much of a variance do others see in votes/view by category.

Interesting question. My view-to-vote ratio seems relatively consistent across categories.

Overall: 29:1

Non-Human: 22:1
Non-Erotic: 23:1
Loving Wives: 29:1
Romance: 30:1
Humor: 30:1
Erotic Horror: 37:1

This is based on a sample size of 9 stories (487,538 total views / 16,928 total votes).

 

[Writer61]

And this thread merges with the discussion of strokers.

But not zebras … yet.

 

[NotWise]

Interesting question. My view-to-vote ratio seems relatively consistent across categories.

Overall: 29:1

Non-Human: 22:1
Non-Erotic: 23:1
Loving Wives: 29:1
Romance: 30:1
Humor: 30:1
Erotic Horror: 37:1

This is based on a sample size of 9 stories (487,538 total views / 16,928 total votes).

You have a pretty remarkable catalog. I'm going to have to find out how you get a 4.8 in LW.

 

[iwatchus]

Interesting question. My view-to-vote ratio seems relatively consistent across categories.

Overall: 29:1

Non-Human: 22:1
Non-Erotic: 23:1
Loving Wives: 29:1
Romance: 30:1
Humor: 30:1
Erotic Horror: 37:1

This is based on a sample size of 9 stories (487,538 total views / 16,928 total votes).

For mine:

EC: 123:1
EV : 98:1
GS: 46:1
LS: 80:1
LW: 15:1
Romance : 19:1
SF&F 22:1

The only two categories we overlap on are my best ratios.

 

[ThatNewGuy]

You have a pretty remarkable catalog. I'm going to have to find out how you get a 4.8 in LW.

That's kind of you to say. The answer to your question is simple: dumb luck. I posted in the category before I really understood that there were two warring factions.

I'd read some stories by Todd172 and others on the LW top list that had little-to-nothing to do with cheating or revenge or wife sharing. I figured there was an appetite among the LW readership for stories outside the category description, so I wrote what is essentially a non-erotic mystery series and tossed it in there. The lone sex scene in the first story is so clumsily done that I can't bring myself to reread the scene.

 

[FrancesScott]

But what do you do to engage your reader?

I don’t know that I do anything to engage the reader, save for maybe putting a bit of effort into the first paragraph.

What I do is try to engage myself. What events would I find interesting? What interactions between characters would be compelling (sexual or otherwise)? How can I make my characters relatable, regardless of whether they are likeable?

But overall, what is the story about? It has to be more than sex. Growth, or connections, or what it’s like to be in a certain situation. Or even sometimes some moral aspect.

I write what interests and moves me and trust that at least 0.1% of humanity will feel the same.

 

[FrancesScott]

To take an example of a recent story. What if a man fell for a woman who he didn’t know was deaf? He’s obviously falling for the image of her, not actually her (then he’s a guy!)

But then, what if she’s secure and confident and a good communicator, when he is none of those things?

So the story is about making surprising connections and overcoming obstacles to commutation and understanding; one’s mostly in the guy’s mind,

 

[Actingup]

I thought that size (story length) might be an issue, but it's really not.

 

[filthytrancendence]

I think of a story as a series of mini-mysteries or questions. The desire to know the answers to those questions drives the reader forward. They can be small questions, but they have to make the reader wonder "and then what"?

I generally try to avoid using examples from my own work, but I'll do so here because it's what I'm most familiar with. My story Abandoned starts with this sentence:

"I'd seen some weird shit inside abandoned storage units, but what I saw that night in November took the cake. By a mile."

That's the initial hook. What did he find? The answer comes a few paragraphs later: a coffin. This immediately raises new questions. What's it doing there? Is it empty? Will he open it?

More answers come soon after. There's a young woman inside wearing a dress straight out of Bridgerton that's splattered with mud. (Who is she? What's she doing there?)

She claims she's a vampire. (Is she really?) He takes her photo with his phone. She doesn't show up in it. (Is she going to hurt him?)

The narrator tells her that he's there to clear out the storage unit because the owner hasn't paid rent. She rails against an unnamed character for lying and saying she'd be able to stay there as long as she wanted. She smashes her coffin. (Who is this new person? What did he do to her? What's she going to do without a coffin?)

After some awkward back-and-forth, the narrator invites her to stay with him until she finds a new place. She accepts. (Is this a good idea? Is the damsel-in-distress act all a ruse?)

That's the opening scene. In each subsequent scene, I try to establish additional questions with the hope that the reader will want to keep going to find the answers.

Another thing I've found that keeps readers engaged is humor. I tried to inject some humor into the opening scene of Abandoned, and judging from reader response, it went a long way toward getting readers to identify with the characters and make them feel like real people.

As a reader, if you can make me smile or chuckle at something a character says, I'm pretty much yours until the end. I try my best to keep that in mind when I'm writing.

I feel like this is a much more practical corollary to my overly abstract answer. Lots of great examples.

There's lots of different and useful ways to do these kinds of set ups and pays offs. And it's usually better to have a variety. I tend to favor evocative imagery and interpersonal tension. I'm sure that's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's how my brain works.

 

[SimonDoom]

The irony is that if you do make the reader finish, they're less likely to finish.

I'm not sure how making the reader Finnish affects either of those.

I think it depends on whether it's an oil-based finish or an acrylic finish.