Make this relationship work .. ...

[ignited9]

A post by a guy in Personals area sometime back (Almost going to be 2 years soon). And he meets a girl through that post.

Both are in their early 30s now. Having their own businesses and doing good in it. Both are smart, intelligent, family oriented and fun loving. The differences in two are; girl is from U.S. and guy is from India; she is more lively and he is bit introvert.

After meeting at Personals, both of them are on with regular emails and soon they are meeting everyday for chat. Things work and they find them in sync. Developing emotions and getting serious about the future. They know that they are born and brought-up in totally different societies and they need to work a lot to get used to their different life styles and to get the best from both to have their own way. Working out on the things they move further and they are committed. They plan for the meeting, living together, learning and getting used to different life styles they have and marriage. The timeline is set and its just matter of things to happen.

Not going into details about how but guy comes to know that every information girl has shared with him is fake. Her work information, her address and even her name! He knows that its pretty usual to remain anonymous while on the Internet but he is puzzled about why such things went on and on from her side after reaching at commitment level and meeting dates just ahead in 2 months.

He is not ready to give-up what both of them shared but at the same time he doesn't want to find himself with even more nasty surprises ahead in the online and then real life together. He asks her to provide verifiable information now. e.g. scanned copy of her passport/driving license. Also asks her to get the webcam. Things went on with arguments and no results.

Guy realises that asking for passport/driving license copy is too much intrusive when they aren't married yet. So he gives up that part but remains on with the webcam and to provide the real information now. Same things went on and guy decides to break-off.

During break-off they are on with the formal emails. Guy decides to put an effort again after some time and initiates with all his thoughts and views about them. He wants her clear with her thoughts that if both of them are up to the level of commitment then there should be building blocks .. not guided by the usual Internet frame but driven by their commitment for eachother. Not being senseless and crazy either under the influence of emotions. He asks again about the information and she provides the detail.

They unite back and now eased up .. the storm has passed. Dates for meeting ahead are set again. He has asked for webcam that it would be better to see each other while they talk but it hasn't been there yet.

Now, regular everyday chats are there. But seems things have changed now.

The overall view now looks something like .. ...

The bad part:

+ He is ready to work but part of him is still afraid of more nasty things might show up. A stain on the bright white sheet, she doesn't know how to clean it.

+ In all the efforts, only he has initiated and put his thoughts, wrote & share the views majorly and she will be up with "I had thought about it!". Lack of initiation and involvement from her side from start.

+ After all that happened she still considers him with "Serious Trust issues".

+ There is lost spark .. lost sync .. lost passion .. lost involvement and dedication .. She will be going on with the TV or Youtube and he will be going on with his tech update websites while chatting.

+ He has adapted her way now. Not bothering much about the whole thing and just going on with the regular day to day talks without any kind of initiation, efforts and expectations.

The good part:

+ Both of them were in sync. Still are.

+ Both of them and specially she had been there when he has emailed her asking if she wish to talk.

+ All shaken up and sunk but still part of readiness to work upon the things are apparent on both the sides.

+ Both of them are totally genuine but may be shaken-up/in doubt/in confusion because of the in between happening and/or past experiences.

I have written this with the third person view .. trying to be neutral in presenting the whole thing. If anyone is with the point "Move on .." then I/we would have long a go. But that isn't the case here. I/we want to make this work. I/we have tried to make things work in all the ways I/we can think of.

Now, I am looking forward to the same people .. same community where I started this journey. Will be very happy to get your views, suggestions and ideas to make things work. Make things better. I know she is here and she knows where to reach me if she wants me to add/remove/update the details given here.

Thanks for your time. And thanks in advance for your suggestions and ideas.

 

[Cattypuss]

Meh.

I have met a few men on the internet. I have been seeing my current partner for 18 months and we met on the internet.

I would never give ANY personal information to a man on the internet. NEVER. And a man who pushed for it would find himself very swiftly being said goodbye to.

What I do instead is, if there is a rapport on the internet, my next stage is to speak on the phone (note - I call him, and I withhold my number, so that I am STILL totally anonymous). If we get on well on the phone, I then arrange to meet him in a neutral public place.

Even after the first meeting, the only personal information he has about me is my first name and (from the meeting) what I look like.

Women meeting men on the internet are wise to be VERY VERY careful. And the very few men who have gone on to be allowed to know me properly and be my partners are those men who have 100% understood and accepted that.

 

[ignited9]

Thanks for reply Cattypuss.

Yes, I see your way of meeting whom you have met first on the Internet. I guess, everyone have their own ways to remain anonymous and safe on the Internet. It is necessary, very much.

But if you have read then we have passed that stage. One can't remain porcupine and long for the smooth mating at the same time.

All my concerns are focused around turning those bad points to good points and making good points better.

 

[Cattypuss]

Thanks for reply Cattypuss.

Yes, I see your way of meeting whom you have met first on the Internet. I guess, everyone have their own ways to remain anonymous and safe on the Internet. It is necessary, very much.

But if you have read then we have passed that stage. One can't remain porcupine and long for the smooth mating at the same time.

All my concerns are focused around turning those bad points to good points and making good points better.

Actually I did read your post in full before replying and in my view you have NOT passed that stage. (She has yet to meet you - I never give personal details before meeting a man, for obvious reasons.)

Just because you have been in contact via the internet for a long time and have developed feelings, that does NOT mean that she has any reason to trust you with her personal information. And frankly, your asking for copies of documentation is likely to have rung HUGE warning bells in her head.

 

[ignited9]

Actually I did read your post in full before replying and in my view you have NOT passed that stage. (She has yet to meet you - I never give personal details before meeting a man, for obvious reasons.)

Just because you have been in contact via the internet for a long time and have developed feelings, that does NOT mean that she has any reason to trust you with her personal information. And frankly, your asking for copies of documentation is likely to have rung HUGE warning bells in her head.

Thanks for reply back Cattypuss.

First, I have changed the main post to make it more clear about the case.

Now, I certainly respect your way of keeping things to yourself. More or less everybody has the same practice for the safety purpose and also to have a guard against nasty surprises in the future.

Everything that happened in between about the details, happened after the commitment. My view about commitment is, no one commits when there are any kind of uncertainty or questions about the other person and/or their relationship. That stage is reached after so much of building. I predict, in "lets play" cases there will be totally different scenario.

But yes, your view certainly gives me idea about why she i.e. my girlfriend is being the way she is.

And on the other hand I see it again as the difference of life style/views towards things in life. That after reaching to commitment level, I am going on with everything that could make things better and she might be on with her safety-covered doubts and may be also with the compatibility checks. Not to forget about the future implications we i.e. me and my girlfriend might face because of this core difference (in both ways i.e. online and face to face).

Overall view doesn't seem healthy. Still, any hopeful and workable views/suggestions?

PS: There were same HUGE warning bells in my head when I found that all the details provided by her were fake (after commitment).

 

[ignited9]

Thanks for reply back Cattypuss.

First, I have changed the main post to make it more clear about the case.

Now, I certainly respect your way of keeping things to yourself. More or less everybody has the same practice for the safety purpose and also to have a guard against nasty surprises in the future.

Everything that happened in between about the details, happened after the commitment. My view about commitment is, no one commits when there are any kind of uncertainty or questions about the other person and/or their relationship. That stage is reached after so much of building. I predict, in "lets play" cases there will be totally different scenario.

But yes, your view certainly gives me idea about why she i.e. my girlfriend is being the way she is.

And on the other hand I see it again as the difference of life style/views towards things in life. That after reaching to commitment level, I am going on with everything that could make things better and she might be on with her safety-covered doubts and may be also with the compatibility checks. Not to forget about the future implications we i.e. me and my girlfriend might face because of this core difference (in both ways i.e. online and face to face).

Overall view doesn't seem healthy. Still, any hopeful and workable views/suggestions?

PS: There were same HUGE warning bells in my head when I found that all the details provided by her were fake (after commitment).

Humm .. things went away from the main part.

Though part of me has that fear of some more nasty surprises in the future, that part of faking details has passed. We both i.e. me and my girlfriend has significant discussions and arguments too on that topic. I included all in the post because that anyone providing suggestions/views have the whole reference and not just the current or one sided view.

More of my focus is to make things work from now on when we have united back. Make things better from the present overall view that I have presented in main post.

 

[satindesire]

I can understand wanting to keep your information to yourself until you meet, but if you say "Yes, I want to be your girlfriend." but won't even tell the guy that you're SUPPOSED to be committed to your real name, that is a big problem.

I think you two need to sit down and have a serious talk about this. This situation looks bad on both your parts, and you two need to communicate HONESTLY and openly about why she's being so secretive and why you're pushing so hard.

 

[KoPilot]

I can't vouch for the girl, because I only know your perspective, but it's my personal opinion that you've gotten ahead of yourself by quite a bit. Not only are you discussing marriage and sharing your life with her, but you've never met her, spoken to her on the phone/webcam, and you don't appear to know any real world information about her now either.

I had an internet fling back in high school that lasted for 4 years (I broke it off after realizing there was no way to fix our friendship), and it appears that it went very similarly to the situation you're describing now. It turns out he was a pathological liar, and despite the fact that we did call each other sometimes, it took me a long time to realize that most of what he ever told me about his life was completely fabricated. If your relationship with this woman is as similar to mine as I think it is, then I don't believe that you're in any sort of position to make healthy life decisions that involve her. It still sounds like she's a stranger to you.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[ignited9]

I can understand wanting to keep your information to yourself until you meet, but if you say "Yes, I want to be your girlfriend." but won't even tell the guy that you're SUPPOSED to be committed to your real name, that is a big problem.

I think you two need to sit down and have a serious talk about this. This situation looks bad on both your parts, and you two need to communicate HONESTLY and openly about why she's being so secretive and why you're pushing so hard.

I can't vouch for the girl, because I only know your perspective, but it's my personal opinion that you've gotten ahead of yourself by quite a bit. Not only are you discussing marriage and sharing your life with her, but you've never met her, spoken to her on the phone/webcam, and you don't appear to know any real world information about her now either.

I had an internet fling back in high school that lasted for 4 years (I broke it off after realizing there was no way to fix our friendship), and it appears that it went very similarly to the situation you're describing now. It turns out he was a pathological liar, and despite the fact that we did call each other sometimes, it took me a long time to realize that most of what he ever told me about his life was completely fabricated. If your relationship with this woman is as similar to mine as I think it is, then I don't believe that you're in any sort of position to make healthy life decisions that involve her. It still sounds like she's a stranger to you.

But that's just my opinion.

Thanks satindesire and KoPilot for your views.

From the start I have provided her every information. And more details as we progressed. Name, address, work details, self and family photographs, etc. along with the readiness to make her verify all the details in any way she wants i.e. same way that I had asked her, providing scanned copy of my passport/driving license. Despite of the shaky times and as I have been considered with "Serious Trust issues", I haven't hold back the new updates whether it be information about me, my work, family or new photographs, with a consideration that she is able to understand this simplest point that I won't be going on with all the information if I didn't trusted her (or more precisely the relationship) and also considering her view that if she has any questions/doubts/confusions about me in any way then she can open up and ask straight away if sharing the updates aren't enough.

At the time of reunion, I have had asked about some clear concise information about her, her work and her family. She did provided all that. Name, address, work details, self and family photographs etc. But again after sending a surprise greeting card neither gets back to me nor I hear anything from her about it. Lost? Wrong address? Wrong person? Fate's play .. ...

We have got each others' phone numbers. But she had to fumble around few numbers to make it work. It lands into voice mail most of the time, anyway. And she hasn't been up to check "Why her international calling doesn't work when she pays for it already!". Whats up with the webcam, I still don't know.

satindesire, I hope it makes the point clear about why I am pushing so hard about the details thing. Keeping things unclear darkens the whole view.

I can just hope for HONEST, OPEN and CONSTRUCTIVE communication, doesn't matter through email/s or in chat or through call or chat with voice and video. Since start I have hardly got any of her own thoughts, views, ideas and suggestions but just agreement upon mine with "I have thought about it." or repeating them in different sentence formations.

She might be having her own problems due to past experiences or anything but I see its better for both of us that she be clear about her stand on this relationship and live up to it (I know she isn't playing, just somethings she might be stuck with). That way things be clear for me too and I can live up to what this relationship demands. I desperately wish for that clear view. It takes huge effort to build any relationship. So much into it. But on the other way I don't want to find myself no where after traveling across continents and spent this long time and efforts to make things work.

KoPilot, I can feel how it is if there goes only lies. Good that you are out of it. I hope .. I pray that my case isn't haunted by it and if it is then too I am hoping for the corrections/updates and genuine efforts.

Going back to current "good parts" and "bad parts" presented in the main post, satindesire, I agree on the huge need of communication .. HONESTLY, OPENLY and CONSTRUCTIVELY. I hope for the clear view ahead.

 

[ignited9]

Damn! I went on with all the things here. Frustration. Venom.

I am thankful to this forum that it provided me a space to vent out all the frustration about things going on. Fewer but sensible views that gave me more prospectives about moving further. Further thoughts after getting these views gave me relatively clear picture.

Going on with the third eye view again .. ...

Kind of "be safe .. don't be another victim of yet another Internet fooling around" feeling inside him after fake details thing. He wasn't pushy about the details before the incident and respecting her comfort to share the details of any kind. She and all readers of this thread have marked that under that feeling he is with extreme of emotions to make things work and at the same time with extreme of rationality to know her stand about the relationship. He knows sensible balance of both is needed. Extremes never work.

After getting the views here, he realise that anything went on between them about the details is the conflict of the life styles. It isn't her fault. She is going on with the life style that she founds around and thus having her safety shell on. He needs to adapt to it in case of details. At the same time he needs to keep his options open.

So, that closes the details chapter completely.

(Thanks a lot Cattypus, satindesire and KoPilot for presenting 3 different views that helped me to derive the above mentioned step.)

And for now for the present and future (considering those bad and good parts in the main post) ..

Both need to discuss about the present situation honestly, openly and constructively. Frankly conveying reasons for being cold or unsporting. Share their views about possible solutions and work swiftly on them. Both need to act rather than just "pretty" words or excuses.

She needs to be with better involvement by sharing and presenting her own ideas/views/suggestions about each other and everything concerning their relationship covering both the sides i.e. while they are online and then their near future face to face life.

For better future, at every instance of doubt/confusions/problems they need to communicate same way i.e. honestly, openly and constructively. Choose the common ground from presented ideas/views/suggestions by each and live up to them.

(Thanks a lot satindesire for bringing and backing-up my *always insisted* _better communication_ point.)

I have kept off from communication for a week that this frustration that I puke down here doesn't make things worse while communicating with her. With better understanding now, I am looking forward to better conversation with her which could improve the present unhealthy situation.

I would love if anyone would like to add/update or comment on the above mentioned steps/ideas.

I know only two of us can work upon and improve the things but once again I am very much thankful to this forum that gave me space to vent out all the frustration. And huge thanks to Cattypus, satindesire and KoPilot for sharing their views.

 

[Colton_Whiter]

I'm curious to know what's current status of this relationship of yours?

 

[coastal-boy]

I'm not going to read this whole thread....no need to. The answer is right there in the very first post. In fact, it is also in the title. The OP chooses not to look at that. Current Vegas odds of this working: one out of million.

 

[innocentscribbles]

I'm not going to read this whole thread....no need to. The answer is right there in the very first post. In fact, it is also in the title. The OP chooses not to look at that. Current Vegas odds of this working: one out of million.

Long distance relationships are already at a disadvantage because it is hard to "connect" when one cannot be available.

Relationships where both parties come from different cultural / social backgrounds are at a disadvantage because the opportunity for misunderstanding and unintentional insult are abundant.

Online relationships are at a disadvantage due to the necessity for safety that others have mentioned, preventing a thorough exchange of honest information.

When a relationship starts with dishonesty, it is an uphill battle to rebuild lost trust.


You both are fighting some serious odds to actually make anything work. While I agree with the others that her desire (more than that, real need) for safety held her back from withholding personal information early on, it was handled irresponsibly. When fostering that safety firewall online, particularly with someone one is trying to "connect" with, one should simply say "I don't feel comfortable providing that," not lie.

If you two are at the point that you're sincerely talking about moving your lives and getting married, that moves the relationship far beyond the need for privacy. You cannot talk about living with someone and spending the rest of your lives together until you can trust one another completely. I agree with the others that said you both are jumping the gun. Even if it's taken you two years to get to the point you're at now, there is no defined time limit on how long people can take to get to know one another before you discuss pushing the relationship to the next level.

You both need to spend a lot more time focusing upon getting to know the REAL person behind the computer / phone line before you go anywhere close to a discussion of sincere commitment. One of the inherent risks of a long-distance / online relationship is that it's far too easy to "fall in love" with the person in your head because your mind fills in the blanks that the other person leaves out. Until you both are 100% comfortable with giving your partner any and all information s/he requests, and you both are 100% confident the person you "know" is really the person on the other end of the phone line, I'd say you should not say another word about moving in together or getting married. You're just setting yourselves up for a huge, heartbreaking failure if you push it before its time.

So...if looking for suggestions on how to make it work, I'd say throw the brakes on. Don't make another plan or preparation towards moving the relationship beyond where it is now. Take the time to visit one another some more; personal face-to-face time goes a long way to fostering trust. (Yeah, I know. It's expensive and it may take time for finances to permit enough time. If you're talking about marrying her, is she not worth it?) I mean, if you do get married, you're going to see a lot of one another. You better KNOW you can stand being around that person 24/7, and you better KNOW the person you're marrying is who you think they are.


Edited Addendum:
When building that online security firewall, once you have a person's real name, you can find out pretty much anything you want to know about that person. The Freedom of Information Act puts our lives out there for anyone that wants to look. So, I can see why she would use a false name; anyone should stay behind an alias unless/until real trust is established (and that's hard to do online). Stalkers and generally unbalanced people can do a lot with that information. It's just the smart thing to do. That said, one does not discuss serious commitment unless there is enough comfort and trust to let that guard down.

 

[Sleepy007]

not right....

Ok, if your going to be in some kind of relationship with other people, you need to hear their voice and see them.... Especially over the internet with romantic relationships. I believe in a mutual exchange, getting on webcam is not hard. She can wear a mask if she does not want to reveal her face to you... but if you two are already in a serious relationship as you say then there is not reason for her not to show her face because the trust has been established.

The female sounds very suspicious. I will not trust her, maybe she is making it up, I mean for all you know she might be a male and just messing with your head. There's a lot of weirdos online and being cautious is necessary, but not when you already talk to them on a regular basis. So make sure your talking to a live female before you start talking about marriage. So naive...

 

[NightL]

Get out into the real world... real people...

Next time you are out for a walk... going to the shop... and you see someone who looks interesting... smile and say hello... if you get a smile and a hello back, you will have already gained more than this fantasy relationship... a genuine and honest exchange. Who knows you may meet this person again the next time you go out for a walk...

Get out into the real world... real people...

No matter how much you think a relationship has developed online, it starts all from the beginning again when you meet in person. True communication encompasses far more than just typing on a keyboard can ever do...

I recently overheard some teenagers discussing how they love to get on the dating sites and causing havoc... who are you really talking to? A few years back a male friend of mine told me how exciting it was to have his new online relationship... developed over months... right down to nudie pictures and even a few gasping (but brief) phone calls.... and just as I predicted... the catch came... "I need money to further my education... just a few thousand dollars"... haha and the supposed education was going to be gained on the other side of the world.

 

[AnnieMosity]

Seriously, you expected to swap private/personal data? You wanted proof in the form of a passport scan or other legitimate source? Did you ask for her social security number, date of birth, and more?

I'd run the fuck away from you as fast as my legs could carry me. You sound like an identity thief on the prowl.