Love in Dreams

[Samuari]

In The Brothers Karamaoz, Dostoevsky has Father Zossima say: “Love in action is a harsh and dreadful thing compared to love in dreams. Love in dreams is greedy for immediate action, rapidly preformed and in the sight of all. Men will even give their lives for it, if the ordeal does not last but is soon over… But active love is labor and fortitude.”

This quotation is usually used as a lead in to an examination of the “harsh and dreadful thing.” I would like to instead look at “love in dreams”. First, I think that a case may be made that we are looking a yin/yang relationship. That they are two sides of the same coin, and that they are both required in the emotionally healthy mind. I have some other thoughts on the issue, but I don’t want to turn this into an essay. What say you?

 

[CreamyLady]

It might well be the search for the Other; our opposite, everything we need and want to be, and desire more than breath.

It is easy in dreams; incredibly hard when awake -- mainly because we don't always recognize these qualities so readily without the symbology of the dream.

However, when we do find our Other, our true mate, we should hold on, and not let go -- however "inappropriate" the relationship might seem -- because we will be incomplete without them.

That is the harsh side, to me, and what most of us live with daily. The dream is so beautiful, the reality so harsh, but the Other does exist, and we are so incredibly lucky when we find it.

 

[Jester]

The reality and the dream are definitely one in the same. The yin/yang description is totally accurate, because it's all about balance; each aspect defines the other. If you eliminate one, the other goes away, as well.

We know that true love is alot of work to hold on to and nourish, but the dream is the flower that we get from our work. It is rare, beautiful, and makes all of our labor and suffering worth it. I don't think that people see that, sometimes. They only see the toiling stretching out before them. I know that I may make it sound easier than it is, but when I reduce things down to their basics, that is what I come up with (unless I'm just fed up with the world that day! )

Besides, if the dream were an easy thing to achieve, would we value it any where near as much as when we have to work and sacrifice for it?

 

[Samuari]

CL, I hadn't considered it those terms, but how very approaite! The way a lover can compleat us, like a jigsaw puzzel; and by becoming compleat, we are then able to lend ourselves to our lover. In biblical terms "and the two become one."

Jester, what I ment was that the two are NOT one and the same, but different parts that compleat a whole. That without both aspects, it is not possible to have a healthy psyche.

I would go further and say that the represion of active sex play in american culture is at least a contributing rise of those devations that we all detest, child abuse in all its forms, spousal abouse, violent sex crimes, etc. In this light Laurel and Manu are doing an ernomous service by providing a us with a place to ply safely.

 

[CreamyLady]

As I understand the yin-yang symbol, one becomes the other at some point, and there is a seed of the other in each.

It is very much the symbol of a perfect union (not wishing to start another debate on perfection!).

Thank you for the idea in your first post, Samuari. You can't know how helpful it was to think about.

 

[Cheri]

Samuari - The Sexy Man and a intellectual, no less

Im my mind love in dreams is what occurs when a prepubescent girl gets ahold of a Modern Bride and plans her wedding and married life by looking through it's pages. It also occurs when you and your fiance lay and dream of your future house and kids in the naive and dreamy way that love allows. But love in action occurs when you pick up the dirty clothes without reminding them of the existence of the hamper, when you upgrade the hard drive instead of buying those cute little mules you've been wanting and when you go to fucking Gatlinburg for vacation 4 years in a row because that's where the family reunion is going to be held again (knowing that you will get a private vacation out of it in the future). I do agree with both you and CL though, that both of those loves must be present to make commitment both bearable and enjoyable.
As for the "true mate" thing, CL, I'm reserving my judgement on that at the present. Is there really such a person or is it wishful thinking?

 

[CreamyLady]

I think that the "true mate" is one that a person will stay with, through thick and thin (and I know from observation that it can get awfully damned thin), and still have love, respect and the capacity to stay together throughout. In short, the "right" person, and they do, somewhere, exist.

One may not find them, but they exist.

However, finding this person does not excuse one from the laundry thing, the family reunions, the incessant budget talks and being aware of the other's feelings at all times. It just makes it easier to do, I think.

 

[April]

Re: Samuari - The Sexy Man and a intellectual, no less

I do agree with both you and CL though, that both of those loves must be present to make commitment both bearable and enjoyable.
As for the "true mate" thing, CL, I'm reserving my judgement on that at the present. Is there really such a person or is it wishful thinking?

Well, I've just about had my fill of the dirty clothes on the floor, dirty dishes everywhere, cleaning up the cat puke, and putting up with general shit! I've had very little experience with the dream love, and I'm not happy. There's got to be something better out there, right?

Does the true mate exist? At this point, I would say probably not, but I'm still hoping. I'd almost rather be single. At least then, I'd know where the I left the fucking pen, instead of having to search for it!

I'm still waiting for the good part to happen, BTW.

 

[Jester]

Sorry if I was unclear, I meant that I agreed that they were opposite parts of a whole.

I would agree that the repression of sex play contributes to the problems that you mentioned. It especially becomes problematic when combined with the usage of sexuality in every aspect of media. Sexuality and flesh are pushed from every direction and then you're told not to do any of those things nor think that way. It's a really screwed set-up.

 

[Samuari]

C L I’m not sure what a “true mate” is; and I have been in love with Lady Geisha for 30 years and married to her for 25. I hope that I am closer to being that “true mate” today then I was 25 years ago. It has not been a smooth straightforward process, but we have made progress, I hope. Part of what I’m saying is that the willingness to participate in the process of shaping each other is more important than finding that person that already “fits”. Of course, you must be compatible, but I think that we spend an awful lot of time looking for the perfect person, and not enough time trying to become that perfect person. After all, ultimately we can only exercise control over our selves, and no one else (unless you’re Hecate).