looking for some reactions

[Krinaia]

So... I've clipped a conversation I recently had with a Domme ... I would like to see what reactions I can stir up. I won't name her but she can name herself if she so chooses. I have her full permission so please do not take offense to me copying around conversations in this manner. It's not a common practice for me. EVER. But this was the manner in which I choose to go about broaching this particular subject...

Domme unknown: people are too closed minded ... their kink is the only right kink
Domme unknown : it bothers me that even the outcasts have to have outcasts
myself : lol
myself : its like religion
myself : either one religion is right and everyone else is wrong or they're all wrong and seriously fucked
myself : you know?
Domme unknown : yup
myself : so why the hell can't they ALL be right?
Domme unknown : when it comes to religion, I think that all of them have something right & all have something wrong ...
myself : because suddenly it would lessen their beliefs if they allowed themselves to think that others were right and ifferent
Domme unknown : and we have to hope that we can get enough of it right to stay out of trouble in the end
Domme unknown: right
myself : yes but each religion works for the person who follows it
Domme unknown : right
myself : its right for them, right for their life, makes them comfortable with their existence
myself : that is all that truly matters
myself : why can't submission be like that?
myself : pure in that it satisifies the person submitting and the dominant excepting that submission
Domme unknown : because people can't let it be like that

 

[Kajira Callista]

Thats exactly how its supposed to be!

 

[SweetDommes]

This happens to be a topic that Holly and I have dealt with a lot in the short time we have been in the lifestyle ... in the first munch we joined, we quickly became "the outcasts among the outcasts" because we didn't want cheap, meaningless scening like most of the other members did and we actually said so.

I have never understood why people can't just get along with each other. It's a total powertrip, totally egocentrical, and an indicator of some serious psychological issues under the surface. People have to see themselves as above others, so they have to tell themselves (and others, on as regular a basis as possible) that they are right and only they are right ... that everyone else is wrong, evil, whatever ... no matter if it is an issue of which religion, which sexual orientation, which kink they prefer, which color hair they like ... they have to build themselves up by tearing others down.

-Miss Karen

 

[s'lara]

Oh yikes.

i'll say it. It's a board "unspoken" rule not to post private conversations, even if one party is unidentified. This is a trend i hope does not become the norm. It violates a privacy and in my book, i'd cease conversing with someone who would post my private communications on the board ... anonymously presented or not. No offense Skyline, just how i feel.

lara

 

[Krinaia]

I asked the person's complete approval first ... if it is against the rules, I will change the edit the first post. I just felt that this thread might stir up some strong opinions - it is my intent to do so. I want to see how people feel about this due to my own explorations. So I don't want this to be directed at her.

_edited - I checked the rules and it seems to be okay but I'll ask Miss T to be sure___

 

[SweetDommes]

Thats exactly how its supposed to be!

How is it supposed to be? That people can't/won't get along?
If so, I'm sorry, but I can't buy that.

 

[Kajira Callista]

No...that isnt what i was saying at all...was speaking of the convo and about how its between a Dom and sub. Why is everyone so quick to read the negative into things here. And its not you in particular..its in general. Im in no way a negative person please dont misread what i post...imagine a big ol sunny face typing the words?

 

[SweetDommes]

Oh, we misunderstood you, sorry about that.

 

[TNRkitect2b]

If people want to know why I don't post very much in these forums, this is the reason.
I am a Dom. But the way I approach it is different from the accepted "norm". I deal with controlling through giving and and denial of pleasure rather than pain. This is especially relevant in my current relationship, as pain is pleasure for the one that I master.

In my lurking and reading on these threads, I have noticed that there is an accepted sense of "normal" against which those who do not follow it are judged, and often seem to be disparaged and sometimes insulted when they pipe up with something outside the "norm".

Dominance and submission, master and slave interactions are different for everyone. I deal with each relationship on its own merits, and each requires me to deal with it differently, because the submissive that I deal with in each IS different from any other.

Judging people because they do not fit into the neat pigeon hole of your view of what BDSM consists of is as close minded as our being judged by those on the GB or Playground because we choose this lifestyle. It is akin to the closemindedness of the general (American) poulace when dealing with anything beyond lights out, missionary position, for procreation purposes only sex.

Now that I have said my piece, I will get off my soapbox, and go back into my lurking status. Feel free to flame if you wish, but don't be suprised if I laugh at you. I know how I master those that submit to me, and feel no need to be "normal".

Brian

Edited for clarity

 

[Kajira Callista]

You are right Sir Brain. I am into extreme pain and im actually hesitant to post anything passed clothespins on the board...light bdsm is wonderful and its fine if thats what floats your boat. I grew out of that years ago, and you do advance painwise and your tastes change as do your limits all the time. Im a no limits girl...have never used a safe word (dont even have one *gasp*) I trust whoever is Mastering me not to damage me permanently, i dont have to say well my limit would be...death? The key to this whole thing it the closeness and trust developed in this type of relationship when you have that....you dont need all these so called rules and stuff. Draw outside the lines ppl....its so much more fun that way!!!

 

[SweetDommes]

TNRkitect2b we probably have more in common then you realize.

 

[WriterDom]

I am a Dom. But the way I approach it is different from the accepted "norm". I deal with controlling through giving and and denial of pleasure rather than pain. This is especially relevant in my current relationship, as pain is pleasure for the one that I master.


Edited for clarity

Is there a norm here? Denial of pleasure is at least equal to pain from what I have read.

 

[Mistress Tae]

Well, as a newcomer to this lifestyle, here are my thoughts:

I have always lived my life not really giving a shit what anyone else thought of me or my actions. I live my life the best that I can and try to give the best that I have to those whom I care for.

I entered this lifestyle with the same views. I could care less if someone else thinks that what I am doing lifestyle wise is the "norm" or not. What is the norm for them may be completely extreme for me in some cases, and very vanilla for me in others. That doesn't make either me or them right. It just makes us all different.

My concerns are not for what others think of how I view BDSM, or of how I decide to go about being dominant. My concerns are what is right for my submissive and for myself. My concerns are for what will help each of us to grow as people and in this lifestyle. Beyond that what does it matter what anyone else thinks?

Now, having said my peace on that, another thought. I truly believed when entering this lifestyle that I would find a group of people who would be far more accepting of each other considering that all of our views, regardless of how "tame" or "extreme" are considered taboo by the majority of people.

I have seen on these boards a little bit of both....a bit of acceptance, and a bit of rejection for not doing as others do. *shrugs* Again, for me, it all comes down to not really giving a shit what others think of my choices and/or decisions. Though at times it does make me wary to pose any questions or even post on these forums......

 

[Quint]

Quite honestly? I don't like some types of relationships. They make me roll my eyes in boredom or distaste, or nod and turn away. I say, "That could never be me." I say, "I don't know what they see in that."

BUT.

I don't confuse my lack of interest in that relationship with judgment of whose relationship is better. I don't say "because A is good for me, that means A is the correct way for all people."

I get punished, sometimes. It often hurts. I go out with friends. I'm bratty. I do edgy things. I don't plan to ever give up my hard limits. I'm a cat person. Fire scares me. I like service. I don't like switching with boys. I don't orgasm easily. I enjoy playing the piano. I have a job. I make more money than T does. I might marry him someday.

Which of those makes me better than anyone? Which of those should everyone live by?

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I am always right.

What is ironic, is when people pretend that everything is ok, which is exactly as bad in my eyes as dismissing all BDSM. Further, when I make a negative comment, generally it is not directed against a specific kink, it is directed at the apparent psychology behind it. It isn't an activity that I find distasteful; rather, it is the mindset of the people involved. IF a behavior seems to arise from an unhealthy mindset, you are goddamned right I'm going to say something about it. Hiding behind the idea that people are knocking other people's kink is a lie some people tell themselves, in order to avoid confronting the truth about their behavior.

Here are my first to posts on the BDSM board, to someone who was having trouble with the humiliation aspect of her submission:

You know something? I have absolutely no idea! I'm a completely 'vanilla' guy who just popped in on a lark, but...I'm thinking that a sensitive dom is going to push your limits without going so far as to destroy your psyche. Maybe you could go light on the humiliation when you need to, and build up your tolerance over time? Trying to be helpful, I'll back away slowly and watch for flying bottles...

Well, I'm not at all experience in the more esoteric lifestyles, but i do know people pretty well. My idea of a good time might be different than yours(or might not, under the right circumstances!), but I know that whatever it is that we do to feel fulfilled, should leave us feeling fulfilled! Whatever you and your partner do, if it isn't leaving you with a good feeling at the end, then you are doing the wrong thing, or you are going about it the wrong way. just my 2 cents.

I've learned ALOT since then, but I still think my comments were sound. Many folks go on about 'Safe Sane Consentual' activities, but it doesn't seem that very many folks actually give a shit about it in a practical sense. It isn't always about 'disapproving of someone's kink'; sometimes it is simply that at certain times, peole seem to be acting out in ways that aren't healthy for them...and sometimes that activity is completely vanilla, and completely wrong for that person, whether they see it or not.

 

[cellis]

I am always right.

I've learned ALOT since then, but I still think my comments were sound. Many folks go on about 'Safe Sane Consentual' activities, but it doesn't seem that very many folks actually give a shit about it in a practical sense. It isn't always about 'disapproving of someone's kink'; sometimes it is simply that at certain times, peole seem to be acting out in ways that aren't healthy for them...and sometimes that activity is completely vanilla, and completely wrong for that person, whether they see it or not.

I never thought I would find myself in the position, but I agree with you Johnny.... I don't think people really care about SSC except in theory....

I look back at activities that I have taken exception to in the past and do think that it is not so much as I object to someone's kink... God knows I have enough of my own... more that I even thought about 3 years ago... but I do say something if I think the behavior is unsafe or unhealthy...

*stepping off my soapbox now*

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I never thought I would find myself in the position, but I agree with you Johnny.... I don't think people really care about SSC except in theory....

I look back at activities that I have taken exception to in the past and do think that it is not so much as I object to someone's kink... God knows I have enough of my own... more that I even thought about 3 years ago... but I do say something if I think the behavior is unsafe or unhealthy...

*stepping off my soapbox now*

See, I told you I was right!!

I wonder why people think that is so surprising, when they agree with me? Must be my good looks, you can't believe I can be this smart too?

 

[catalina_francisco]

You are right Sir Brain. I am into extreme pain and im actually hesitant to post anything passed clothespins on the board...light bdsm is wonderful and its fine if thats what floats your boat. I grew out of that years ago, and you do advance painwise and your tastes change as do your limits all the time. Im a no limits girl...have never used a safe word (dont even have one *gasp*) I trust whoever is Mastering me not to damage me permanently, i dont have to say well my limit would be...death? The key to this whole thing it the closeness and trust developed in this type of relationship when you have that....you dont need all these so called rules and stuff. Draw outside the lines ppl....its so much more fun that way!!!

I think for most on the board into pain, clothespins are only a small part, if at all. We for one are very open about our interests in pain play and though considered by many to be extreme, we have never felt judged or a need to hold silence from other posters about our explorations and kinks into such things as cutting and whipping with bullwhips. Overall we are accepted for our tastes without censure or criticism. Those that do have negative comments are usually not in the lifestylke and just passing through from the GB or another board...so feel free to post away, I am sure no-one will be shocked.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Judging people because they do not fit into the neat pigeon hole of your view of what BDSM consists of is as close minded as our being judged by those on the GB or Playground because we choose this lifestyle. It is akin to the closemindedness of the general (American) poulace when dealing with anything beyond lights out, missionary position, for procreation purposes only sex.

Brian

Edited for clarity

Is a view I have shared on the board often, but many who do not see themselves as judgemental often forget there are other ways, other views, other circumstances in the world. Though I do not think it is exclusively an American problem, it does thrive well to keep that worldview that does not go beyond the US borders, the most recent example being the suggested constitution and Bill of Rights for Iraq modelled on the US system....how the heck is that supposed to fit a culture so different from the American way?! Reminds me of a woman I saw interviewed a couple of weeks ago who said the US government has the view as long as they stick a McDonalds burger in a person's hand and give them a flag, all their problems are going to be fixed.

I think also, as I pointed out recently, submissives are often judged for acts they submit to by people who for all their saying they adhere to the submissive putting the Dominant's needs before their own, forget though they may submit, it may not necessarily be something the submissive would choose for themselves or even feel comfortable with, but they submit to as part of their commitment. Critics may say they should refuse and walk away, but then that to me raises the question of where is the submission if all you agree to are the things which rock your boat? Does not seem submission to me.

Despite the judgements and ones who say 'no way' only to months later declare they have enjoyed the very thing they condemned another for, I remain, as I do not feel inclined to be dominated by anyone other than my Master, and while I accept it is fairly typical human behaviour, I forever live in hope that minds can be opened. Is not about right and wrong, and most of us at some point have made a statement we regret later, our best intentions being misguided. Not all here are closed, and some who have been are no more, so there is always a hope that we will not continue to condemn others for living the lifestyle we all choose to explore. It really is about thinking outside the square and not remaining stagnant in your environment.

Catalina

 

[shaymless]

Every day, we make judgements and choices. We have to, to get through the day. To take it out of the bdsm realm and take it to what is a lower-common-denominator ~ if I make a judgement to not run a yellow light and the guy in the next lane does, it validates MY judgement to call him a flippin' idiot, even though he made it safely and harmed no one.

It's easy to carry that through the rest of our lives...we tend to see and validate what we believe to be true...and most of the time, we do it unconsciously. It's not as easy to step outside my frame of reference and my belief system to try to understand a different point of view, although I have to do that as well each day in order to perform my job.

I'm not condoning "judgemental" people at all ~ although, I guess I am one. The first time I read a post about something that is beyond my realm of experience, it can take two or three readings to get beyond that "oh, OW OW OW OWOW" in my head and really try to understand what the poster was trying to communicate. And sometimes, I don't. Sometimes, I just can't wrap my head around a particular concept. Doesn't make it wrong, just makes it not right for me right now. I'm not that person, haven't lived their life, don't have knowledge of them beyond what they're presenting to the board and don't have an understanding of their frame of reference.


And once again, I am operating machinery without benefit of coffee, so feel free to judge

shay

 

[SweetDommes]

This is a reaction to many of the posts that have been added since my/our last visit, so I'm not quoting ... would take up the whole page if I did ...

Anyway, I work very hard at not being judgemental towards others, while being very supportive of their views, whether or not they agree with us. There are some things that we view as harmful simply due to past experience and/or research that has shown something to be extremely detrimental (like police handcuffs causing permenant tendon/nerve/circulation damage to the point that many police departments are considering changing the style, repeated extreme breast bondage being linked to breast cancer, etc.). However, this does not mean that we are against the use of tools/methods that we don't choose to use. The whole thing is that lots of people have posted here about it ... but how many have stood up for someone being ostracized for their beliefs/practices? I have been very lacking in my support of others, I will admit, but I do try. We both voice our opinions, but we try to do it in a non-condescending or antagonistic way - not always successfully, but such is life, and we also try to appologize for mistakes and misinterpretations.

 

[Krinaia]

o

My concerns are not for what others think of how I view BDSM, or of how I decide to go about being dominant. My concerns are what is right for my submissive and for myself. My concerns are for what will help each of us to grow as people and in this lifestyle. Beyond that what does it matter what anyone else thinks?

Now, having said my peace on that, another thought. I truly believed when entering this lifestyle that I would find a group of people who would be far more accepting of each other considering that all of our views, regardless of how "tame" or "extreme" are considered taboo by the majority of people.

Sometimes I too try to not give a shit what others think but it's not always in my nature to do so.

I'd like to thank everyone for their posts ... I've got quite a bit to mull over. So I'm going to go mull and be back later.

 

[catalina_francisco]

The whole thing is that lots of people have posted here about it ... but how many have stood up for someone being ostracized for their beliefs/practices?

It happens, even when not sharing the ostracized posters views, practices, or methods. IMHO is what makes Lit BDSM Talk a little bit different than most boards.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

I try to balance living life for me and not giving a shit what anyone thinks with the occasional need to admit I may be an asshole if several people I respect tell me I am.

 

[Mistress Tae]

I try to balance living life for me and not giving a shit what anyone thinks with the occasional need to admit I may be an asshole if several people I respect tell me I am.

For those I respect and I love, and those who have actually taken the time to get to know me, I listen. But for those who want to stand back, apart from me and judge, I take the "I don't give a shit" attitude.

I do agree however, that once you put something out here for the public to read, you have to accept that others are going to give their opinion. At this point, you either have the opportunity to explain your side of the "story", perhaps giving others better insight into yourself, or you can simple choose to walk away from it. It all depends on if you really wanted "help" or if you just wanted to share and don't care what others think.

Apologies in advance if that makes no sense....I am on caffine overload

Mistress Tae