long time lurker needs advice

[Apocalypta]

I have been lurking on these forums for a long time. And even though I have never posted, ( I am shy) I feel like I know some of you really. I have a dilema I'd like to share, maybe for advice, maybe just because I need to get it off my chest, maybe because I need someone to tell me to grow the fuck up.

I am a long time player of an online role playing game which is very popular. When I say long time I mean that in the last year I have invested over 97 days of playtime there. Yes, I am addicted to be being someone else. IRL I am shy, poor ( Well ok not poor but ya know) , mousy, and hmm...well let's just say shapely..( Ok..190 lbs). My character is beautiful, rich, popular and very outgoing. So the exact opposite of me. Anywho, to the heart of the problem. I met at around the same time, two guys. Both relationships started only as an RP type of thing. There were no realy feelings invloved, really just raw cybersex in the context of a fantasy world. Things have gotten a lot more complicated since then. Both guys are now madly in love with me. Let me describe quickly each man. By the way, I am 33.

Guy#1 - 53 years old, rich, handsome. sweet - really everything I could hope for. He loves me for who I am, doesn't care about looks, wants to provide for me, and has to some degree already. At the end of October I am supposed to move to England to be with him. Sexually, he is dominant ( my fantasy), and very open minded to what I want...and need. He has no interest in having children ( neither do I), has no committments to anyone else, and thinks I am absolutely hot. We talk regularly over the phone, have exchanged many pictures, have discussed the future in an honest and open way.

Guy#2 - 25 years old, poor, romantic, sexy, totally in love with me though he has never seen me, has no clue what I look like and swears he doesn't care..but hey let's be realistic, he's 25. Now, this guy, wants to have kids, get married and the whole shebang.a realy traditional type of guy. We regularly have "phone" sex over Teamspeak and he is rather reserved. He had never had any type of cyber before he met me. He couldn't dominate a fly. Anything remotely kinky I have had to baby him into, which is fine...hell we all gotta start somewhere. Alas, though I would gor for it in a heart beat this guy has not been very recepetive to my desire to meet and see him in person, the reason he gives is that he has been very hurt by a relationship which started online before, I wonder sometimes if he just..hell I don't know.

The thing is, though guy #1 can offer me a life of leisure and travel and fun and adventure, it is guy #2 with whom I am madly and deeply in love with. It is guy #2 that makes my heart race.Guy #2 is less compatible to me then guy #1...but I fear that guy#2 will not really want me once he knows the real me, physically. My heart says...go for guy#2. My brain says go for guy#1.

I'm confused and things are racing to a head. In a short 6 weeks I am supposed to move to England to be with guy #1. It makes me cry just to imagine not being able to talk to guy#2 everyday, to hear his voice.

To top things off, my life in general is a bit fucked at the moment. Financially I am kinda fucked ( all my own fault). I live in country which I hate ( Fecking Europeans *smiles*) . I have no social life ( I am always on that damn game), and I haven't had sex in three damn years. ( Which is why I am on this site so much I guess)

Anywho.... I feel like such a loser posting this here..*sigh* But..It does make me feel better. SO what do you guys think? Guy #1 or Guy #2?

 

[Carnevil9]

There's a reason why "real life" is called "real life"..... because it is REAL!! You need to throw away your computer, forget about these two cyber dalliances, and get out there and learn how to live in the actual physical world........Carney (JMHO)

 

[incubus'_sub]

Well, you asked, so you'll have to accept the answers you get. Remember, though, that we don't know you & that our answers come from our own points of view.

My view, for what it's worth, is that cyber is cyber and that it's very rare for the great "love" to translate into reality.

Therefore noone is madly in love with another real person, they are in love with the ideal person being presented on a screen who is ALWAYS adapted & tweaked to suit the moment.

Photos & phone calls help, but without knowing whether or not people bathe regularly, have a nervous tic or some dreadfully annoying mannerisms & habits, how can you possibly believe yourself, or those men, to be in love.

Go meet them by all means, see what happens. The fact that Man 2 is not keen to meet should tell you something & it's not good. Man 1 is offering the world to a woman he has never met ?? why??? If he has so much charm & so much to offer, why are real women not beating down his real door?

I think the Net is great as an introduction tool, but believing everything you read (because you want to believe) is naive & unrealistic.

Wouldn't you be better to spend less time on the computer & more time going out to meet people who don't feel the need to hide behind a screen?

 

[massage45678]

Guy 1 VS Guy 2 VS. the real world

I don't think you should pick either one. Both sound good on "paper", but you have yet to meet face to face with either one. You haven't even seen guy 2's picture. Guy 1 sounds tempting because as you said he is rich. He can get you out of your financial bind and provide you with a lifetime of money.. but think about it this way... if he is supporting you financially he owns you. I don't mean in a slave way like he'll beat you if you don't do what he says. I mean if you anger him or he just gets sick of you a month or Two into this he can just throw you out you'll have no legal/financial/ or social(friends/housing/food) recourse. You'll be in worse shape than you are now. I am living a similar situation right now. I'm not being given any money or anything but I'm staying with my boyfriend rent free. I hate it. I love him but I know that if he just decides one day that he doesn't want to see my face anymore he can just throw me out. My advice to you-- take a month long vacation to England, see him, spend the entire time with him(24 hours a day minus the time you'll be sleeping together in his bed.)

You mentioned you're madly in love with guy 2 could you just be in love with the idea of guy 2 with what he stands for? You haven't seen a picture of him, you haven't met him or anything. You also mentioned you're scared guy 2 won't like you if you pick him over guy 1. Why hasn't he seen a picture of you. If you've been talking as long as you have you'd think a picture would be one of the 1st things you'd exchange. Carnevil9 makes a VERY valid point live in the real world. I understand there is a huge chance of being hurt/rejected in a real life relationships but at least all your cards are on the table. There's no hiding behind a computer screen to live life in a fantasy world.

 

[human_male]

Well congratulations on finally posting. I couldn't add to the awesome advice you've already got here, except to say it seems a bit nutty to just pack up and move to another country to be with someone you haven't even met. There's a very real possibility that you won't hit it off in person. There's this thing called chemistry and you won't know if it's there until you actually meet. Plus there are all the other reasons mentioned above.

I know how it can be. I spend too much time at home with the computer too. People tell me I'll never meet anyone unless I go out, but from my point of view I can't meet anyone one even if I do go out, and that's the reason I spend so much time on the computer. Y'know, it's not the cause, it's the result, if ya follow (plus if playing this game makes you happy, then why the fuck not). But pinning all your hopes and dreams on people you've only met online seems crazy. Guy number two doesn't want to meet you, so he's only ever going to be an online friend, so accept it. Guy number one seems too good to be true. Go and meet him absolutely, but plan on coming home again. Then if things don't go well you haven't burned any bridges. And if things go well you can make plans to move if that's what you want.

I'd encourage you to put yourself out there more, even if it's only online for now, with adds on singles sites and going to chat rooms and so forth, and meet some new people, with the aim of meeting them in rl. Don't let your whole social life revolve around these two guys.

Good luck, and keep us updated.

 

[M's girl]

I agree with Carney and Incubus. But I must say that I met my man through the internet (not roleplaying) and can attest that it could work to start a relationship with someone you meet on the net. I don't know the whole roleplaying-scene but bet that sex is far more explicit there than what we discussed before we first met in RL (which was after three weeks of IM-ing e-mailing and talking on the phone for hours each day).

Without further thinking about if this whole extra/other life you created is a good idea, and just looking at what you tell us about yourself and the guys and if you made me just choose and shut up after that, I would say go for guy no. 1

But it's not as simple as that, and you know it too, otherwise you would not have asked us. Does guy # 1 know about guy #2 and vice versa? Would either of them let you have contact with the other one once you made your choice? I bet not. And if they say they will they will probably get back on that one once you made your choice (which would not really be a choice if you would still interact with the other one IMO). It does sound to me like the combination of these guys is what's working for you at this moment. Moving to England just like that, without even having met in RL is such a bad idea.

If you think you want to (need to?) make a choice between these two men then meet them first. M and I had talked about everything before we first met in RL (actually, that was two years ago yesterday). We also exchanged pictures. But we had mainly also talked about everything from children, marriage, relationships, work, money, hobbies, sex, sex and sex and politics and, well... basically everything. So, we knew we liked each other and we had lots in common. Still, when we met, and for a few months after that, we had to sort of re-focus. We knew each other but we did not, if you know what I mean. How so? It's called interpretation.

You say you are a big girl. The 25 yo guy says he doesn't mind but he has not seen pictures of you yet. If you ask me what I would consider to be a big girl I would probably come up with another picture then when you ask the next person. I attached 3 pictures of Big Girls. So, when you think BIG... which one do YOU mean? I have seen people define people who are much thinner than all three as BIG.

But that should not be the point. There's plenty of people who like/adore/worship/fancy (pick one) the fatter girls, up to pic #3 and beyond. If you are thinking 'relationship' isn't there other things that are more important first, and shouldn't you find out first if you are somewhat competable with ANYONE before you move in with them?

Guy #1 seems like the solution to all your problems but no money in the world could fix an empty heart if it turns out you are just a little plaything for him. And then what? Men will promise you the world to get you into bed and more. Some are for real, but how real can it be if you have never looked into his eyes?

M and I knew we were compatibe and still we found out there were lots of things we thought we were thinking the same about but were not. Interpretation. Reference. Background. They all play a role in how you define things. That goes for everyone.

You THINK you are madly in love with #2. But that's easy. I see people say all kinds of things here. It makes ME think (sometimes) I know what they are like but of course I don't. If you have not spent a considerable amount of time with someone you don't know what they are like.

And like massage said: there will be no hiding after you brought your online man into your real life.

I guess the picture gets somewhat clearer, no?

Be wise. Return to RL, and if you must, bring your virtual men into your RL to find out what they are really like. Make no moves until you know.

 

[emap]

What they said, especially M's Girl.

I'd like to point out one other little thing, these are GUYS your talking about, one doesn't want to meet you, there are a couple reasons that spring to mind besides he had a bad online relationship thing. He has a girlfriend and doesn't want to meet you because of that, he does mind your not a rail thin twig, and of course, maybe he is older, maybe he is fat, maybe he is both. Heck perhaps he is actually a 6'2 fat guy that loves men and is only roleplaying with you.

The first guy, well perhaps he does want you to move in with him and will provide food clothing and whatnot for you, or perhaps he just want to get you there fuck you and shove you out the door with maybe the clothes on your back. Maybe he is lying and does want kids, wants to get you pregnant keep you until you have his baby hire a nanny and then shove you out the door. Perhaps he is rich because he sells women as slaves and has an order for a larger woman who is like you.

Are you getting the hint? It's online, as in I don't know you from anybody you could live next to me and I hate you, but online your a sweet wonderful man or maybe a sex starved woman. That is the danger of online, you never know. I mean yes you got pictures from the 1st guy, how do you know it's him? Maybe it's the old guy down the street, unless you have seen him on a webcam you can't know it's him, and even then there is tons you can't see, like maybe there are 10 huge black men waiting for you to come there so they can gang rape you.

My tip, run through every single bad scenario that can happen to you if you visit this man, if you still wish to visit him, tell people where you are going and the name, keep his emails, keep his messages to you in the game and write on a pad sitting next to you computer who you went to see, how you met him and the anything else you can think of leaving for the police just in case you disapear. Seriously, there is nothing you can't concider happening to you in this day and age. There still is slavery, there still are people who catch AIDS and pass it on to other people because they don't want to die alone, there are still psychopaths running around and everything else, think of Halloween, that actually happened, think of Friday the 13th, that can happen, and probably has in some form several times. Doesn't matter how twisted the bad guy is on those slash movies, they have real counterparts. I mean where do you think they get the idea's?

 

[Mazuri]

As a player of online RPGs, first thing you have to do is sit back and separate character and player. That little toon, those bits of pixels, is not you and that's what these guys were initially attracted to. The toon. Not you, not your personality, wants, needs, or desires, but that toon and how you play her. You say the PC is everything you are not and yet these guys love you for who you are. How often have they seen who you are? Your PC is so ingrained in their heads as being you, or a part of you, they expect (perhaps subconsciously) that you and the toon are the same.

Guy #1
How do you know Guy #1 is what he says he is? Pictures can be faked, but could be real....but what about his financial status? You say he's rich, but how do you know? He could be living in squalor and there's no way you will know it until you get there. You say he's everything you want in a guy....but, did you feed him this knowledge and did he adapt to become such? A comment here, a bit of OOC side-chat there, and soon, you've given him the recipe to become the man you claim you want. That doesn't mean it's really him.

Guy #2
Doesn't want to meet and it's not due to online relationships. He is either not what he claims (25 yr old male), is married, has a girlfriend, or something else. He doesn't have pictures of you, nor you of him. I can understand his not sending them to you if he's poor, doesn't have a digital camera (tho webcams can take stills and are dirt cheap), etc....but depending on the online RPG, he's dishing out cash every month to play so he's not too poor. But...why hasn't he seen any of you? Have you offered and he's refused? If so, he's got a reason...and that's usually because someone else is able to log onto his machine.

I've been there with IG relationships taking on a bigger role than just IG. Does either guy know about the other? If so, how do they feel about it? How would they feel if you wished to continue the IG portion of the relationship with the other? My advice is this: take a month off the game and simply talk to the other two over TS. Don't allow the conversation to be about the game or your characters. See how much you talk about, how much you have in common. Separate, in all three of your minds, the player from the character. Make sure they know who you are and you know who they are.

The line of fantasy and reality can blur with RPGs, especially if you pour everything into a single PC. They can be fun, but can be destructive as well if you let them. Never forget you are NOT your toon. And neither are they.

So go visit Guy #1 but...buy a roundtrip ticket to England. Never leave yourself with no way out.

 

[wehstar]

I don't have any personal experience in this area at all but I offer what advice may be helpful.

What emap said is true, extreme maybe, but absolutely true. There are some mentalists out there, a member of my family is a psychologist and he told me the other day that the majority of psychopaths have much higher than average IQ than average and are capable of a lot of manipulation - though I don't know how he qualified that statement. That said, fear and the fact that there are a small % of mentalheads in the world should not impact on the way people live their lives and find happiness in whatever way they deem appropriate. I would take the advice that I have seen people say about online dating and only meet initially in a very public place. If he is rich and serious he can quite easily give you enough money to pay for an anonymous hotel and a decent holiday in England, and for you to only see him on public dates a few times before you head back and think everything through. There would be no way he would get uppity about it, especially if you say it was advice you felt you had to listen to.

Even public places aren't as safe as they should be. To illustrate, a true tale from my past. Apologies I spend too much time on the SRP forum, I'll try not to make it a story:
A few years ago myself and a close female friend of mine tried some sort of experiment. She got on a bus (in a major UK city) and went upstairs. I followed her and sat behind her after a few minutes. Then I started staring, and stroked her hair. She moved seats, I followed her and started up again, making out I might be rubbing myself too. Eventually she turned around and said loudly (like enough for a dozen people near to hear) and assertively "If you don't leave me alone I am going to scream, you freak". I sat quietly for 10 mins, staring intently, then when she got off at our stop she walked fast, and I followed her. The point is at no point nobody even challenged me. I might understand if I looked threatening, but I am 5'3 and skinny, and there were plenty of larger men around. I just hope for the sake of the world that they guessed we were messing about, but I don't think they could have known that.

Oh and if you want to know if the English guy is trustworthy, feel free to let me know what place he grew up. Some people may disagree, but I know full well you can tell the % chance of someone being an arsehole from where they grew up.

 

[Tarkael]

Aw, Apocalypta, you have PMs blocked. Well I have something to say, but I don't really want to say it publicly

 

[Apocalypta]

Well, you asked, so you'll have to accept the answers you get. Remember, though, that we don't know you & that our answers come from our own points of view.

Yes, that's what I am looking for..just something to get my mind going

Therefore noone is madly in love with another real person, they are in love with the ideal person being presented on a screen who is ALWAYS adapted & tweaked to suit the moment.

The truth is I know this is true as i have done it myself. I mean..I have to be honest with myself and say that I have no always been 100% forthcoming.

.

Wouldn't you be better to spend less time on the computer & more time going out to meet people who don't feel the need to hide behind a screen?

Yes, it would, but to be honest..I'm afraid.

 

[Apocalypta]

But it's not as simple as that, and you know it too, otherwise you would not have asked us. Does guy # 1 know about guy #2 and vice versa? Would either of them let you have contact with the other one once you made your choice? I bet not. And if they say they will they will probably get back on that one once you made your choice (which would not really be a choice if you would still interact with the other one IMO). It does sound to me like the combination of these guys is what's working for you at this moment. Moving to England just like that, without even having met in RL is such a bad idea.

Neither knows about the other. And right now I am leaning towards guy #1 with the understanding that guy#2 will be just four hours away ( also lives in England) That scares me because I am afraid I won't be able to give guy#2 up..knowhing how close he is.

You say you are a big girl. The 25 yo guy says he doesn't mind but he has not seen pictures of you yet. If you ask me what I would consider to be a big girl I would probably come up with another picture then when you ask the next person. I attached 3 pictures of Big Girls. So, when you think BIG... which one do YOU mean? I have seen people define people who are much thinner than all three as BIG.

But that should not be the point. There's plenty of people who like/adore/worship/fancy (pick one) the fatter girls, up to pic #3 and beyond. If you are thinking 'relationship' isn't there other things that are more important first, and shouldn't you find out first if you are somewhat competable with ANYONE before you move in with them?

I'd say I am a number 2.

 

[Apocalypta]

As a player of online RPGs, first thing you have to do is sit back and separate character and player.

That is so damn hard..I have invested so much time anenergy in making her..growing her..being her.

Guy #2
Doesn't want to meet and it's not due to online relationships. He is either not what he claims (25 yr old male), is married, has a girlfriend, or something else. He doesn't have pictures of you, nor you of him. I can understand his not sending them to you if he's poor, doesn't have a digital camera (tho webcams can take stills and are dirt cheap), etc....but depending on the online RPG, he's dishing out cash every month to play so he's not too poor. But...why hasn't he seen any of you? Have you offered and he's refused? If so, he's got a reason...and that's usually because someone else is able to log onto his machine.

Reading that made me cry...you're right probably..someone else can log in and see..it's the only thing that makes sense. I have offered my pic on more then one occasion..I do not understand why he would possibly not want to see me..Shit.

I've been there with IG relationships taking on a bigger role than just IG. Does either guy know about the other? If so, how do they feel about it? How would they feel if you wished to continue the IG portion of the relationship with the other? My advice is this: take a month off the game and simply talk to the other two over TS. Don't allow the conversation to be about the game or your characters. See how much you talk about, how much you have in common. Separate, in all three of your minds, the player from the character. Make sure they know who you are and you know who they are.

I tried this tonight with guy#2. Told him that IG conversations were off limits and I just wanted to talk. We talked, it was nice...but..I really wanted to confront him about the picture issue..maybe tomorrow night.

So go visit Guy #1 but...buy a roundtrip ticket to England. Never leave yourself with no way out.

I won't. I will make sure that I keep my options open and stay safe no matter what I decide to do.