Live-in boyfriend not dominant

[nicoleanna]

In past relationships I have always enjoyed being submissive inside the bedroom. On the outside I'm very loud and in control -- but I in the bedroom I want the opposite. My boyfriend, whom I live with, doesn't seem to get into the dominant role. How, if possible, can I gently bring him into it? Any suggestions would be helpful

Thanks!

 

[myinnerslut]

you might not be able to, some people just are dominant, and in the opinions of many, wont be able to learn it.

just talking with him and telling him what you want might be a start

 

[Marquis]

I've got to come up with a canned response to these threads.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

... How, if possible, can I gently bring him into it? Any suggestions would be helpful

Thanks!

Try learning to submit to him OUTSIDE the bedroom. Ask for permission before doing things. Approach him for approval regarding clothing, food, activities. Stop arguing with him and do what he says.

If he won't take the hint and start leading, it's time to find someone who will be more compatible with your needs and desires.

 

[Etoile]

you might not be able to, some people just are dominant, and in the opinions of many, wont be able to learn it.

I was going to suggest the same thing, but it seems possible that someone is not dominant because they've been taught it is wrong to be unequal, but they would actually make a very good dominant if they felt it was allowable.

 

[JMohegan]

I was going to suggest the same thing, but it seems possible that someone is not dominant because they've been taught it is wrong to be unequal, but they would actually make a very good dominant if they felt it was allowable.

I agree with this statement 100%.

I'll also add that I do not see dominance in the bedroom as a black & white issue (as in, you're either dominant or you're not). I see many shades of grey when it comes to this aspect of human sexuality.

I've got to come up with a canned response to these threads.

Indeed.

My boyfriend, whom I live with, doesn't seem to get into the dominant role. How, if possible, can I gently bring him into it? Any suggestions would be helpful

Nicoleanna, welcome to the board. Yours is a question that pops up frequently here. I hope you don't mind, but in the interest of time I have copied and pasted below a response that I wrote on this thread.

Good luck. Here you go.....


Here is a generalized version of the type of thing I say to guys who are sincerely interested in exploring BDSM solely because they want to accommodate a partner's needs. It is advice I give on *first steps* to guys who are open-minded but hesitant, intimidated by the mystique, darkside-averse, and confused as to how to proceed.

Think about bedroom BDSM in three parts: topping, domming, and inflicting pain.


Topping

The essence of topping in the bedroom is skill with a toy. When you first start to think about topping, don't think about anybody's dark side or your partner screaming in pain. Instead, get in touch with your inner child - the boy who learned how to hit a ball deep into left field or draw realistic caricatures of the teachers in 6th grade.

If your inner child is an athlete or warrior, pick a toy like a flogger or crop that feels natural in your hand and is *fun* to swing. Practice your aim by swinging at pillows; hit your own body to get a sense of the impact and effect on the skin.

If your inner child is an artist, learn about various bondage techniques or wax play.

Then start playing.... and I do mean *playing* with your partner. Follow safety precautions, but don't take these sessions too seriously at first. Act like a kid at Christmas, not a guy with something to prove.


Domming

The essence of domming in the bedroom is being selfish. It has nothing to do with being a guy who inspires all females within a 50-mile radius to drop quivering to the ground to kiss his feet.

You've already got a woman in your bedroom begging you to control and use her as you see fit? Guess what! That means you've already done all the inspiring that's necessary for domming to take place, and now you just need to give yourself permission to be selfish.

When you wake up at 2 a.m. in the mood for a blowjob, wake your partner up too and tell her to get busy.

When you get aroused by the way she looks bent over to reach a lower shelf in the kitchen, turn off the stove and take her right there on the floor. Who the hell cares if dinner is ruined? The point is, you're aroused and she's yours. So go for it!

When you start making love and think, "Gee, tonight I'd really like anal," don't *ask* her. *Tell* her that's what you're going to do. If a stern, commanding voice feels unnatural to you, don't use one! (Personally, I get the best results with a low, deep whisper.) But no matter what tone you select, remember - you are not *asking*. You are *telling* her what to do.

Controlling the when, where, and how per your own selfish desires. That's domming in the bedroom.


Inflicting pain

"Hurts so good" does not count as inflicting pain. If you twist her nipples hard and she moans "Oooooh, yessssssss," that's pleasure. If you spank her ass or thwap her with your new flogger and she says, "Please, please don't stop," that's pleasure too.

Inflicting pain means: it hurts and she really wants it to be over, but she's enduring it just for you.


Putting all three parts together

The key point here is: You actually don't *have* to put all three parts together in order to "do BDSM".

If you become skilled with your new toy(s), you can give your partner a lot of pleasure without ever insisting on the when or where or how.

If you become comfortable with your own selfishness, you can give your partner a lot of pleasure by controlling her behavior... without ever picking up a flogger or crop or cane.

And there are many, many people in the BDSM world who never take things to the point of inflicting pain, as I have defined it.

 

[submissiveknight]

Very sound advice JMohegan it seems that you always have good advice!

I would like to touch a little more though on what Evil_Geoff said

Try learning to submit to him OUTSIDE the bedroom. Ask for permission before doing things. Approach him for approval regarding clothing, food, activities. Stop arguing with him and do what he says.

If your trying to make the man more dominant in the bedroom, but you are playing the dominate role out of it, it could probally get pretty confusing for him!

Being in a 24/7 D/s relationship myself I have to confess that most of my submission is outside of the bedroom. I may not ask permission for everything, but per example I'm authorized 1 beer a night. If I want another beer I damned well better ask permission first. Some things that I have learned about being a sub is, Listen, Respond, and by all means Remember!

If you really want to submit to your man forget about what you want. Focus on his wants, eventually that will lead into the bedroom. Especially if you make certain toys available to him. Visit a tack shop and buy a crop 3-5 dollars can work wonders! Make it available to him but don't force it on him, it's a great way to give a hint. Even makes for a wonderful Christmas present.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Maybe I am just plain missing the point but why are you living with someone who you do not find compatible with your needs/wants? Surely you slept with him before you moved in together and by so doing must have realised he was not dominantly inclined, so why move in and then expect yhem to become someone else? Why is it so many people feel they are submissive (in the bedroom or anywhere...makes no difference in these circumstances) and then also feel it is the duty of the one they are with to change (yes, change) who they are to become who the self declared submissive seems to think they should be ultimately just so the submissive is happy and to hell with whether the partner is? Last time I checked, being submissive as a lifestyle or just in the bedroom basically came down to being submissive, not seeking methods to change their partner to suit their personal choices and preferences in just the way which rings their 'submissive' bells.

Catalina

 

[submissiveknight]

Maybe I am just plain missing the point but why are you living with someone who you do not find compatible with your needs/wants? Surely you slept with him before you moved in together and by so doing must have realised he was not dominantly inclined, so why move in and then expect yhem to become someone else? Why is it so many people feel they are submissive (in the bedroom or anywhere...makes no difference in these circumstances) and then also feel it is the duty of the one they are with to change (yes, change) who they are to become who the self declared submissive seems to think they should be ultimately just so the submissive is happy and to hell with whether the partner is? Last time I checked, being submissive as a lifestyle or just in the bedroom basically came down to being submissive, not seeking methods to change their partner to suit their personal choices and preferences in just the way which rings their 'submissive' bells.

Catalina

*So True* Like I said it's not your wants as a sub, It's all in what your dominate wants. Your mindset has to be right or else all your doing is fooling yourself! If you want to compromise your situation who the hell are you submitting to anyway! I feel fortunate when my Mistress even ask me for my opinion, but to tell Her what I want lol yea right!

 

[Etoile]

Maybe I am just plain missing the point but why are you living with someone who you do not find compatible with your needs/wants? Surely you slept with him before you moved in together and by so doing must have realised he was not dominantly inclined, so why move in and then expect yhem to become someone else? Why is it so many people feel they are submissive (in the bedroom or anywhere...makes no difference in these circumstances) and then also feel it is the duty of the one they are with to change (yes, change) who they are to become who the self declared submissive seems to think they should be ultimately just so the submissive is happy and to hell with whether the partner is? Last time I checked, being submissive as a lifestyle or just in the bedroom basically came down to being submissive, not seeking methods to change their partner to suit their personal choices and preferences in just the way which rings their 'submissive' bells.

If someone is only interested in being submissive in the bedroom, as the OP mentioned she is, then there can be plenty of other reasons to stay with someone. Not everyone is looking for a 24/7 relationship, and therefore there may be many more important considerations than whether or not someone is compatible in terms of dominance. In fact, the sex may be totally hot even without him topping her - she just wants a little more. I don't see anything wrong with her seeking to encourage that. The suggestion that "you're submissive, therefore you don't get to ask your partner to be more dominant" is a catch-22. Shouldn't she speak up for what she wants? She's looking for a little kink, not 24/7 micromanagement. I think it's perfectly appropriate for her to make that request, and she's come here to find out how best to approach it.

It's not about leaving your partner because they're not dominant. It's about being with someone you love, and finding a way to make your relationship even better than it already is.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

If someone is only interested in being submissive in the bedroom, as the OP mentioned she is, then there can be plenty of other reasons to stay with someone. Not everyone is looking for a 24/7 relationship, and therefore there may be many more important considerations than whether or not someone is compatible in terms of dominance. In fact, the sex may be totally hot even without him topping her - she just wants a little more. I don't see anything wrong with her seeking to encourage that. The suggestion that "you're submissive, therefore you don't get to ask your partner to be more dominant" is a catch-22. Shouldn't she speak up for what she wants? She's looking for a little kink, not 24/7 micromanagement. I think it's perfectly appropriate for her to make that request, and she's come here to find out how best to approach it.

It's not about leaving your partner because they're not dominant. It's about being with someone you love, and finding a way to make your relationship even better than it already is.

i agree completely with everything you said here. seems i came in a little late on this thread, i don't really have anything 'wonderful' to add, you said it all, very well.

i see that it's more wanting to make the relationship better and it's not a 'changing' her partner, if it were me, and i was already in a relationship, living with someone, etc...and THEN i found the lifestyel, realized i was a submissive, i would NOT leave the one i'm with, simply because he isn't into or doesn't know about the lifestyle, my first step would be to talk to Him about ,,and yea...i'd probably seek help from a discussion board such as this. *shrugs*

to the OP'er...good luck to you, and i suggest talking to your partner, reading websites, books, you can 'google' BDSM resources and find quite a lot of reading...enjoy! and welcome aboard!

 

[catalina_francisco]

If someone is only interested in being submissive in the bedroom, as the OP mentioned she is, then there can be plenty of other reasons to stay with someone. Not everyone is looking for a 24/7 relationship, and therefore there may be many more important considerations than whether or not someone is compatible in terms of dominance. In fact, the sex may be totally hot even without him topping her - she just wants a little more. I don't see anything wrong with her seeking to encourage that. The suggestion that "you're submissive, therefore you don't get to ask your partner to be more dominant" is a catch-22. Shouldn't she speak up for what she wants? She's looking for a little kink, not 24/7 micromanagement. I think it's perfectly appropriate for her to make that request, and she's come here to find out how best to approach it.

It's not about leaving your partner because they're not dominant. It's about being with someone you love, and finding a way to make your relationship even better than it already is.

True Etoile, but the 2 biggest reasons why marriages and live in relationships go down the gurgler are money and sex related issues. I think most people take entering into a relationship too lightly because divorce etc., is so easy and instead of looking at what they really want from someone they are going to share their life with, they look at superficial things such as looks, social status, coolness in their eyes and subconciously think they can change the person to suit them more afterwards. After going through my fair share of relationships, and also counselling people with relationship problems, it just makes sense to me that if something is going to matter enough that you are going to ask how you can change them (and I still see it as changing someone when it is pointed out they are not fulfilling an aspect the OP wants and so is asking how to go about getting them to fulfil those needs...what else is it if not changing?), wouldn't it make more sense to find someone who already can fulfil that need while also fulfilling their own than setting out to find someone then say they are not doing what you want from a partner (and I just rechecked and the OP did say they want the opposite of what they are geting from their lover so obviously it is a big enough issue for them to want it changed and perhaps need to end the relationship because of it) and trying to find ways to make them into someone you do want? Just seems common sense to me.

As to the 24/7 thing, I know plenty of people who are not and do not want 24/7 but who acknowledge they need more than vanilla or a little kink in the bedroom and to settle for less would be emotional and sexual suicide. For me, love encompasses all aspects of a person, not just some. If you are sexually unfulfilled, chances are the relationship is going to suffer in other ways and the person you are with is not really someone you love but more so someone you convince yourself you love, or fall in love with the fantasy of, not the reality. No-one is perfect for anyone, but the fundamental areas of priority have to be right for it to stand a chance and if something is big enough an issue to seek to change in a partner, to me it is a fundamental need for that person from a partner. It seems to me from what little was said by the OP, they have already reached a point in their life where they realise this is something they need or want strongly in a sexual relationship to be happy...more power to them because too many waste time dancing around their needs/wants, denying them, making unnecessary excuses and compromises which don't work long term, and being unfulfilled for the longest time and often wondering why.

Catalina

 

[satindesire]

what else is it if not changing?

To be honest with you, I don't see anything wrong with asking your partner to change. It's almost a virtual impossibility that we, as flawed, imperfect human beings, are going to end up with someone who is PERFECTLY compatible with us in every way. Compromise and change is something that all healthy, loving relationships go through, and people are never 'stuck' with the same likes, hobbies, and passions from birth to death. People are fluid, personalities and desires are fluid, and change is common.

Dominating a sub sometimes calls for behavioral modifications of that sub, that's changing, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems you're implying it's wrong to ask someone to change for the sake of the relationship, but isn't modifying ourselves to be more suitable to our partners -part- of every relationship anyone's been in?

I think that if nic wants her boyfriend to be more Dominant in the bedroom, honest, warm, open-minded communication is the first step. She should feel comfortable knowing he would reserve judgment because he cares for her, and ask him about her desires. Then, a compromise should be worked out between them.

In every relationship I've ever been in, we've both affected each other's personalities, passions and hobbies through both directly asking, or indirectly interesting them in that change...I really see that as quite innocent and healthy.

Of course, there are limits to what you should ask for, and COMPROMISE is the key...asking someone to do something that may harm them, yourself, or others, or asking them to do something that totally goes against their morals or values system would be asking too much.

But something as minor as this, I don't see why it warrants such a negative response, Catalina! You're often one of the most well-spoken and open-minded persons on this board...(and, note, I'm not trying to start a fight but I feel like there's some underlying tension and negativity that you're reading into this subject and that's what seems to be causing your negativity...?) what's bugging you about this?

(edited for spelling)

 

[MasterPhoenix]

When I first met rose she was onie of those odd 'nilla creatures. As we talked, I discovered that she had an interest in D/s, and started out to teach her about the lifestyle, and that morphed into training her. That training again morphed into a loving serious LDR, which again morphed into something greater when we met for the first time, and in several months it will morph yet again when we are togehter rt 24/7.

Yes, as I have trained her a lot about her has changed. In fact, her name 'rose' comes from the beautiful way that she has blossomed in her submission. That blossoming has been about changing.

 

[hamiJJ]

Hi
I hope some of the advice you have recieved has helped you.

And you are enjoying your relationship more.

I tend to find that in my relationship I am dom in the bedroom naturally. That said with my current partner i dont spank, or take her the way i want to when i want to, but just take control.

Anything more would not work for her, so i adjust slightly so that we both have a loving and enjoyable relationship.

Being Dom and submisive means different things to different people, to some in means causing pain, another rough and hard sex, another instructing.The list is endless.

I dont believe i need to be selfish to make my partner happy. I am not saying that is wrong as it clearly works for some people and thier partners.

The simple truth is that when it comes to you being submissive, it could mean so many different things that each person. so advice given within the thread is based on own perceptions of what sub and dom means to ach individual.

You obvioulsy like the person your with and you want to make things even better.

One way of doing this is to explore each others fantasies in bed and chat and laugh about what you would like to do.

in a relaxed and loving situation, as what he likes and turns him on.

Talk about what turns you on. then play with them and see what you both enjoy. He may love telling you what to do etc once he understands what you like. By understanding what turns him on and going out of your way to fulfill his desires will allow you to include what you need.

I will always remember the first time a girlfriend said fuck me harder,

i wanted to and she wanted me to, but i was being polite as it was a new relationship. At the end of the night i was pulling hair, holding her down, spanking her ass and calling her a slut. She loved it and so did I, but she helped me to understand what she liked and I relaxed and slowely added what i liked.

He may want you to dress up etc and by doing what he wants your half way there anyway.

Just relax, make love chat and explore together what sub means to you and what being a man means to him.

I am sure you will find things that make you both very happy.

You will find the journey as good as the destination

Good luck

JJ

 

[DontThankJustSpank]

I wasn't going to read this...

Once upon a time, had I known of a place like Lit, would have asked the exact same question. I met and married a wonderful man who is open to most things sexually, with the exception of d/s. Knowing him the way that I do, I know that he can never be the master that I longed for as long as I can remember.

Fast forward twelve and a half years later. We have two children, love each other, enjoy each other sexually and I have had four long term affairs outside of our marriage (of which he had varying degrees of knowledge and acceptance) all of which contained components of d/s play.

He still can't do it. Even for me. I have come to terms with this and knew that if it was too happen, I would have to find someone who could be a master for me. And I have. But that's another thread...

The question you need to ask yourself is if you can really be happy without d/s in your relationship with your boyfriend, and if it becomes more serious, without it being a part of your life.

Mr's little pet

 

[wickedlady31]

role play

In past relationships I have always enjoyed being submissive inside the bedroom. On the outside I'm very loud and in control -- but I in the bedroom I want the opposite. My boyfriend, whom I live with, doesn't seem to get into the dominant role. How, if possible, can I gently bring him into it? Any suggestions would be helpful

Thanks!

Try role playing it. My ex husband loved being controlled...my current husband perfers being the dom. I learned that I enjoy being controlled.....but also crave to have some of that power....I miss it.

For your live in, try role playing....get a sexy little nightie or something more extravegant....leathery....and ask him to spank you...be the naughty little girl.....he may be embarrassed by it...so give him time and don't be too pushy

 

[JMohegan]

The simple truth is that when it comes to you being submissive, it could mean so many different things that each person.

Bingo.

In my experience with this type of conversation, I've noticed that the most common meaning behind a statement like, "I enjoy being submissive in the bedroom" may actually be summarized as: I love rough sex.

Second most common meaning: I love roleplay (i.e., I love it when my partner adopts a commanding, stern, paternalistic, or dictatorial persona.... but only when he does this in my bed).

Third most common meaning: I am not getting enough attention from my partner, but I've read a lot about "the lifestyle", and I really want to be the cherished pet of a guy who will spank me, collar me, tie me up & tease me, call me his precious lil slut, and repeatedly make me cum.

None of these three meanings equates to submissiveness, as I would define it.

 

[JMohegan]

It's not about leaving your partner because they're not dominant. It's about being with someone you love, and finding a way to make your relationship even better than it already is.

No-one is perfect for anyone, but the fundamental areas of priority have to be right for it to stand a chance and if something is big enough an issue to seek to change in a partner, to me it is a fundamental need for that person from a partner.

I would agree with Etoile under certain circumstances, but Catalina under others. Ultimately, it depends on just what change is being sought, and why, and a host of other factors the importance of which can only be weighed by the individuals involved.

IMO there is absolutely nothing wrong with one partner seeking to spice up the sex in a given relationship by adding on pain play, roleplay, whatever. As Etoile noted, the sex may already be "totally hot even without him topping her - she just wants a little more." After overcoming initial reluctance, her partner may thoroughly enjoy & appreciate the changes that were made. I have seen this happen in many relationships, with great success.

On the other hand, I know from personal experience that sometimes what Catalina wrote is all too true. A long, long time ago, a partner of mine (who had been bottoming to me as part of our personal relationship), developed an interest in exploring her own capabilities on the Top side. She asked if we could occasionally switch.

This is a change that I was not willing to make. She was smart, funny, kind, beautiful, etc. - a host of wonderful things. But I am no bottom, and I am not willing to bottom or switch in a personal relationship.

We are friends to this day. She is now a spectacular Domme and still a wonderful human being. But our intimate relationship ended when she asked me to make a change that I was simply not willing to make.

 

[submissiveknight]

Bingo.

In my experience with this type of conversation, I've noticed that the most common meaning behind a statement like, "I enjoy being submissive in the bedroom" may actually be summarized as: I love rough sex.

Second most common meaning: I love roleplay (i.e., I love it when my partner adopts a commanding, stern, paternalistic, or dictatorial persona.... but only when he does this in my bed).

Third most common meaning: I am not getting enough attention from my partner, but I've read a lot about "the lifestyle", and I really want to be the cherished pet of a guy who will spank me, collar me, tie me up & tease me, call me his precious lil slut, and repeatedly make me cum.

None of these three meanings equates to submissiveness, as I would define it.

Just kind of interested in what your difinition of submissiveness is JMohegan? Not trying to be a smart ass or anything! You just have such good explainations on things that it would be interesting to read.

My definition is to serve the wants and desires of a dominate figure. The way in which you revere towards your dominate. That your actions (the way in which you live your life) are a direct reflection of the control that your dominate figure has instilled in you.

 

[JMohegan]

Just kind of interested in what your difinition of submissiveness is JMohegan? Not trying to be a smart ass or anything! You just have such good explainations on things that it would be interesting to read.

My definition is to serve the wants and desires of a dominate figure. The way in which you revere towards your dominate. That your actions (the way in which you live your life) are a direct reflection of the control that your dominate figure has instilled in you.

Thank you for the compliments in this and your prior post on the thread, submissiveknight.

I would define a submissive as someone who is aroused and fulfilled by overtly ceding control to his/her partner in a personal relationship. My definition includes people who only cede control in the bedroom, as well as those who cede control outside the bedroom too.

When I talk about ceding control in the bedroom, I am not talking about the temporary surrendering of control that takes place when someone is tied to the bed, for example. I am talking about ceding control over the what, where, when and how relating to sexual activities (within negotiated limits, of course).

Obviously, I am not the BDSM dictionary. That is simply the meaning I employ when using the term in the context of D/s or BDSM.

Many times in this type of discussion, when I have presented my simplified, three-part explanation of what it means to "do BDSM" (as in post 6, above), the woman in question will respond with the equivalent of: "No, no, nooooooo. You misunderstood what I was trying to say! I don't want him to interrupt me when I'm trying to get dinner on the table or paying the bills or whatever. Well, maybe once in a while it could be hot, but only if I didn't mind being interrupted. But I sure as heck don't want him waking me up in the middle of the night! And what if I'm not in the mood for anal sex? Doesn't that matter? Why on earth would I ever agree to anal sex if I'm not in the mood for that, too? And *who* would ever want a partner who inflicts pain past the point of pleasure? That's.... that's.... well, that's just cruel, that's what that is!"

My response is to say - Good news! Your task just got a whole lot less complicated, because you can cross domming and inflicting pain (as I have defined it) off the list of things you seek from a partner.

Additional discussion often reveals the fact that the woman in question wants to experiment with pain/pleasure play, bondage, rough sex, or roleplay - all of which may be fantastic. But appreciation for these activities does not *necessarily* mean that a person is submissive, per my definition of that word.

 

[submissiveknight]

Thank you for the compliments in this and your prior post on the thread, submissiveknight.

I would define a submissive as someone who is aroused and fulfilled by overtly ceding control to his/her partner in a personal relationship. My definition includes people who only cede control in the bedroom, as well as those who cede control outside the bedroom too.

When I talk about ceding control in the bedroom, I am not talking about the temporary surrendering of control that takes place when someone is tied to the bed, for example. I am talking about ceding control over the what, where, when and how relating to sexual activities (within negotiated limits, of course).

Obviously, I am not the BDSM dictionary. That is simply the meaning I employ when using the term in the context of D/s or BDSM.

Many times in this type of discussion, when I have presented my simplified, three-part explanation of what it means to "do BDSM" (as in post 6, above), the woman in question will respond with the equivalent of: "No, no, nooooooo. You misunderstood what I was trying to say! I don't want him to interrupt me when I'm trying to get dinner on the table or paying the bills or whatever. Well, maybe once in a while it could be hot, but only if I didn't mind being interrupted. But I sure as heck don't want him waking me up in the middle of the night! And what if I'm not in the mood for anal sex? Doesn't that matter? Why on earth would I ever agree to anal sex if I'm not in the mood for that, too? And *who* would ever want a partner who inflicts pain past the point of pleasure? That's.... that's.... well, that's just cruel, that's what that is!"

My response is to say - Good news! Your task just got a whole lot less complicated, because you can cross domming and inflicting pain (as I have defined it) off the list of things you seek from a partner.

Additional discussion often reveals the fact that the woman in question wants to experiment with pain/pleasure play, bondage, rough sex, or roleplay - all of which may be fantastic. But appreciation for these activities does not *necessarily* mean that a person is submissive, per my definition of that word.

s/k or knight is fine I'm not really a politically correct invidual

I see that your definition is pretty simular to mine just a little different word usage

I like your meaning in your explanation on your 3-part. That is so true and probally is one of the hardest parts of being a submissive, the not in the mood standpoint! I mostly have that problem with the outside of the bedroom area. You know tired, frustrated, got other type of things that I need to get done! Rather than drop everything and run and get that cup of tea! It causes a little mumbling here and cussing there! Of course I do it though. All of that is part of what is being instilled in me as a sub. Thats one thing I would never want to cross off my list! I think, and this is only a reflection, it is more a true test in being a submissive when you are required to perform at times that you least want to perform! Being a sub is not a refinement of your wants! If you get a sense of what I mean.

 

[JMohegan]

If you get a sense of what I mean.

Yes, I did, and you're right - our definitions are similar.

 

[catalina_francisco]

To be honest with you, I don't see anything wrong with asking your partner to change. It's almost a virtual impossibility that we, as flawed, imperfect human beings, are going to end up with someone who is PERFECTLY compatible with us in every way. Compromise and change is something that all healthy, loving relationships go through, and people are never 'stuck' with the same likes, hobbies, and passions from birth to death. People are fluid, personalities and desires are fluid, and change is common.

Dominating a sub sometimes calls for behavioral modifications of that sub, that's changing, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems you're implying it's wrong to ask someone to change for the sake of the relationship, but isn't modifying ourselves to be more suitable to our partners -part- of every relationship anyone's been in?

I think that if nic wants her boyfriend to be more Dominant in the bedroom, honest, warm, open-minded communication is the first step. She should feel comfortable knowing he would reserve judgment because he cares for her, and ask him about her desires. Then, a compromise should be worked out between them.

In every relationship I've ever been in, we've both affected each other's personalities, passions and hobbies through both directly asking, or indirectly interesting them in that change...I really see that as quite innocent and healthy.

Of course, there are limits to what you should ask for, and COMPROMISE is the key...asking someone to do something that may harm them, yourself, or others, or asking them to do something that totally goes against their morals or values system would be asking too much.

But something as minor as this, I don't see why it warrants such a negative response, Catalina! You're often one of the most well-spoken and open-minded persons on this board...(and, note, I'm not trying to start a fight but I feel like there's some underlying tension and negativity that you're reading into this subject and that's what seems to be causing your negativity...?) what's bugging you about this?

(edited for spelling)

True in part, but you are talking about changes which come about as a natural progression within 2 individuals and also their relationship (with knowledge of what is happening), not changes brought about because one partner decides they wanted a totally different type relationship than the one they have entered and they ask their partner to become the person they want them to be, not the person they are. Add to that natural progessive changes come about through the needs and desires of both people and a growing process as opposed to one expressing their desire to have the other change in ways which may not be in their character or list of desires. I wouldn't say it is bugging me, but what we see on this and many other BDSM orientated forums repeatedly is one person expecting the other to change in those ways to suit them, not out of love and mutual tastes and concern for the other (note for example this thread did not mention anything about it being possibly something the partner would want, welcome or enjoy, but just it was what the OP was used to and needed/wanted from a partner and wanted ideas on how to get them to do it for their pleasure), or out of wanting to make the partner happy and fulfilled, and that IMHO is not only selfish and self centered, but also based on a fantasy they have in ther own head more so than really seeing a partner for who they are and respecting their right to be that person and loving them for it.

These questions written in terms of one wanting something and not really concerning themselves with whether the partner wants them or not, but very concerned with how they can bring them to that point by whatever means so they are happy themselves happen all too frequently. Perhaps I would see it differently if occasionally someone spoke about how they thought or saw signs their partner also would possibly enjoy the role, showed signs of already wanting it, or that they genuinely thought it was a valid and good option for both (based on something other than their own interest), but almost without exception it is about one person wanting to change another for nothing other than their own pleasure and desires with no regard to whether it would work for the partner or mention of the partner's happiness or desires...that to me is not where I as a person ever want to be, or be put in the position of by another.

I am also not talking about people who enter a relationship only to discover BDSM in some way and realising it is what they want and then suggesting or discussing it with their partner..***** is a learning experience and some people find after committing to someone that they had these desires all along but just were not aware of them or the possibility for exploring them safely. Believe me, I was one of those people who was in a long term relationship (5 years) with a man who in many ways fulfilled me, was many things I wanted in a man and partner, and had no problem spending every moment with me...but I came to realise D/s was something I needed in my relationship. I discussed it with him and he even though we worked with it for many months, he could not come to terms with it, and try as we might there was no solution but to part company and seek partners more suitable to our needs. He tried to convince me I could just pretend I didn't need it and it would go away, but I could not change who I had been inside since childhood to fulfil his image of who I should be to make him happy...he is still bitter about the separation to this day, but I could not be in a relationship without D/s and realised that is why my past relationships had all died a slow death...I figured I had earned the right to a little happiness and less time struggling to be someone I wasn't to fit someone else's fantasy and comfort zone. As JM said, it was a change and sacrifice I could not make and one I did not feel I was obliged to for the sake of another's ideal.

As to a Dominant changing a sub in any terms, that is once again different from wanting to find ways to change a current partner to be someone you want them to be...the fundamental and major difference being that in a D/s relationship it is something which is open and done with consent, not through devised tricks, methods, coaxing and possibly without the knowledge of the partner in question. I guess what you see as minor, I see as major because I have had partners who expected me to be who they imagined I was, or who they wanted me to be, not who I was and to me that was far more major than I was prepared to go in a vanilla or D/s relationship....it also proved to be frustrating in that those people rarely were happy with anything you did simply because they had an idealised image in their head which another could never be molded to fit. I am capable of compromise, I am capable of sacrifice, but if someone decides they want to be my partner long term and then begin to list major ways they don't see me fitting with them such as sexually (and expecting me to change to conform to their taste), I figure they made a mistake in choosing me and I am better off finding someone more compatible than screwing with my head by trying to be someone I am not. I don't think it even has to come down to morals and values...if you love someone, you love them for who they are, not who you can make them into, and once again, I don't see that as barring sexual exploration and growth that is desired and fulfilling to both.

LOL, perhaps deep down I learned my lesson at 15 when after dating a guy I adored for 9 months and hearing repeatedly from him the line "If you really loved me you would have sex with me" only to find when I did finally cave in and sacrificed my virginal innocence, he turned around and told me I was not who he thought I was because he had me on a pedestal which I had fallen from in his eyes when I finally gave in. It was a painful lesson to learn but did teach me to not so blindly give into what someone else wants simply because they give you the feeling you should or would be doing them the ultimate favour by doing so. Ironically, he came to his senses a couple of years later after much on again off again moments and decided he was going to ask me to marry him...unfortunately he was killed on the way to the asking moment so I never got to hear it or decide if I could trust him enough to consent. Such is life.


Catalina

 

[O'Mac]

Try learning to submit to him OUTSIDE the bedroom. Ask for permission before doing things. Approach him for approval regarding clothing, food, activities. Stop arguing with him and do what he says.

If he won't take the hint and start leading, it's time to find someone who will be more compatible with your needs and desires.

Hmmm, actually I really like what you've said there, Geoff. If a person may be somewhat apprehensive about a possible D/s relationship, you don't have to start in the bedroom. It sounds a bit devious in some ways, but it's kinda like a slow introduction to the lifestyle.

You don't have to start out with anything severe, as you mentioned. Why not do exactly what you said. Ask approval for what clothes you'd like to wear, ask where he'd like to go to dine out, etc. There is so much that you can do to encourage his dominance and your submission.