Litiquette3

[ChainedUp]

Okay, I'd like to hear from the participant trophy group. I'd like to think this is a relatively safe place for discuss, so lets make sure that the debate is friendly!!!

 

[Skankstar]

Beauty is not the same as skill or ability.
If there is one thing the AM board has shown me is that beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. We are constantly shown images in the media of what attractiveness is and judge ourselves on that scale (even the strongest and most confident of people can fall prey to this, we hide parts of our bodies that we feel are unattractive or occasionally slip into self pity ). But just because you don't fit what the media says is beautiful doesn't mean that you are unattractive.
Unlike the participation award I don't think there are negatives to being told you are beautiful. It raises you up, it makes you feel good and that in turn passes on more beauty. Unless you are totally self centred and conceited cunt but even they are beautiful to someone.

 

[Jamicurechickie]

Okay, I'd like to hear from the participant trophy group. I'd like to think this is a relatively safe place for discuss, so lets make sure that the debate is friendly!!!

I have always liked the fact that my boys played competitive sports....enabled them at a young age to learn that yes, not everyone is equal in skills. We have always fostered that thought because we know that it can be a cruel, cruel world out there. They hated getting a generic trophy or ribbon...just for participation. Scoffed at it and it usually went in the garbage.

I became irked though when they didn't want to look nerdy to their friends in the classroom and only did enough to get a decent mark, especially when they were capable of more......drove me fucking bonkers!! We had many, many arguments about this!! NOW, AT LAST, my 25 year old realizes this is a flawed way of thinking after seeing where those school day friends are now.....gah!!

So my point is....there will always be those who excel at many things, those who excel at a few things and those who excel at maybe 1 thing or even nothing at all....but we all have a place in this world...you just have to create your niche in it and be happy with that!!

 

[All_4_Love]

I don't see the necessity in teaching our children that as long as they participate they are a winner, so to speak. I do see the necessity to teach our children that participation, when giving it your all, is going to increase your chances of winning and to keep your eye on the goal but to not lose sight of the fact that if you lose, you still gave it your best, and that's the most important.

You have to push yourself and give it all you have. This is what builds character. Rewarding a child for their effort seems legit when you look at it in terms of acknowledging their participation but is this really going to motivate them to do their best? It seems counterintuitive. The whole idea of sports and competition is to win. More so, what message does this send to the real winners? The ones that gave it their best and it just so happens that their best was truly the best?

Not all of life is a competition. But it is a game. We win, we lose. We are up and we are down. We have good times and bad times. When we are not at our best, we find the courage and strength to dust ourselves off and carry on. It is the hope and the faith in believing we will be at our best again that motivates us to still play the game, and to get better at it as we go along.

 

[Endless_Night]

Pet peeve. PET PEEVE.

Beauty is such a subjective thing. A friend and I recently stumbled across an article on the old turn of the century Ziegfeld Follies. It featured pics, and stats, and it was quite comical how very different the standard of beauty was compared to today. We ended up giggling ourselves silly.

When you toss personal preference into the mix it stretches the definition of beauty even further. Everyone is attracted to something different. Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder, whether that be an individual taste or the current social convention. So, the whole concept of “everyone” is beautiful is a good one, I think.

Or would be, if left to stand alone. Where i think it gets to be a problem is when it spreads out in a “participation” like way. It’s become common to hear phrases like “everyone is beautiful” or “love your body” as justifications for unhealthy practices. Too often they seem to be an excuse to glorify fat. Obesity is rampant in the US. As are obesity related problems, like heart disease, stroke, type-2 diabetes, osteoarthritis. You don’t need to look like a super model, but don’t use trendy catch phrases to justify trashing your body. People, particularly up and coming generations, are affected by that crap.

If you’re going to “love” your body how about treating it with a little respect?

Maintain it. :l

* * *

Too, beauty is just a gloss, or a sheen. It’s not necessary to live a reasonably successful life. And the possession of it doesn’t necessarily bestow confidence. Something I think people get confused about. Just saying.

* * *

Okay. So I logged in to deal with PMs and got caught by the question.

*slides back out for another couple of weeks*

 

[All_4_Love]

As far as the everyone is beautiful movement, I get it. But the truth is that as far as outer beauty is concerned, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and that will never change. Each person on the planet is born a living soul, deserving of love and deserving of value. That, in itself, is very beautiful. The society we live in doesn't define it that way, hence this movement, I assume. The truth is, we live in an ugly world, and most of that is because we need to be taught and reminded of our own innate beauty and goodness.

Respectfully, no, not everyone is outwardly beautiful. And we don't get a choice in that. But we do get the choice to love ourselves, to value our worth, to believe that we are lovable, and to radiate that outwardly, thus making each person, no matter what their physical appearance may be, immensely attractive. In doing so, you will always be beautiful. And even though we may not all fit into society's standards of what beautiful really is, some people, somewhere, are going to be attracted to who you are, and they will most definitely find you beautiful. And the truth is that there is nothing more beautiful than a loving soul. I've been in a room with them. I've felt their magnetism. It is remarkably attractive, and therefore, incredibly beautiful.

I am not beautiful according to society's standards. I can honestly say, though, that I can be standing in a room full of what I consider to be flawless, beautiful women, knowing fully well that if I compared myself to them I wouldn't measure up, and yet, I still feel beautiful. Where does that come from? Does it come from my self love? My confidence in my own attraction power? My belief that I am truly beautiful on the inside no matter what the outside looks like? Or is it my refusal to not fall victim to society's idea that we must compare and judge ourselves against others? I don't know. Perhaps, it is all of those things combined.

 

[Lord Pmann]

Beauty and the bee holder's eyes... I'm lost.

I would like to comment on the term BBW. This won't make me popular, but let's be real. That's a term that's pretty loosely thrown out, if I may say so myself. Being shaped like an Angry Bird character doesn't automatically make you a BBW. Again, there are absolutely different tastes and stuff. But I feel like an average looking person could eat their weight in Krispy Kremes and then it would be okay to call them a BBW. Were they a BW before?? Nope. Just average. Did they just put on a hundred pounds? Then let's call the person beautiful and if you think otherwise, you're fat shaming and you're a bigot.

I'm not a tiny guy, so I'm not some Neil Patrick Harris shaped dude casting stones. I'm not Shrek either, but my point is that this doesn't have to do with weight. It's just throwing that term out there loosely.

There are beautiful big people and beautiful thin people. Then there are people who look like they should be cast in The Hills Have Eyes.

 

[Lord Pmann]

Oh, and another thing on equality... I think it is a valuable lesson for people to learn that most people have their strengths and weaknesses. Very few people are just skilled at everything they do. It's okay to hate those that are. But it's good to know your strengths and weaknesses. Self awareness is a great thing.

There's one guy on this forum that I see all the time who makes me laugh. He seems like a man's man and he's pretty big and could probably kick the ass of many people here. No doubt he would obliterate me if we got into a fight. He's dumber than a sack of hammers though. I see him get into arguments (usually it was on the GB) and people just make him look like a complete dipshit. And his retort was often something equivalent to how he would kick their ass if they came to whatever place he lived.

It always made me laugh because he never realized that his physical size made no difference here, a place where intelligence, quick wit and well written communication are king. He seemed to think because he might be top dog in a bar fight that it also translated to a written Internet forum. I always wanted to explain to him situational awareness.

This is a damned good topic Papa.

 

[ChainedUp]

This is a damned good topic Papa.

A compliment from Pmann, well

Unless this Beaumont and no dancing is allowed.

 

[ViciousTease]

I'm fat and ordinary. I've been told I'm beautiful, but discussions like this one make that difficult to believe.

 

[ChainedUp]

I'm fat and ordinary. I've been told I'm beautiful, but discussions like this one make that difficult to believe.

Nope, not going to believe either statements of fact. This was to be an academic discussion and not to make anyone feel bad. If that's the case I'll turn this into a hip-hop dance party for the rest of the day.

Fuck it, que the hip-hop. Whose got dance skills?

 

[Endless_Night]

I'm fat and ordinary. I've been told I'm beautiful, but discussions like this one make that difficult to believe.

You are beautiful!!! Beau-ti-ful. And you wear sexy bras. Sexy.

I've seen pics!

* * *

And yes, I'm still here. Dang it. It's so amazingly easy to get sucked into PMs.

 

[Jamicurechickie]

Nope, not going to believe either statements of fact. This was to be an academic discussion and not to make anyone feel bad. If that's the case I'll turn this into a hip-hop dance party for the rest of the day.

Fuck it, que the hip-hop. Whose got dance skills?

I got da skillz man......the rap/hip hop star is visiting at my house and we are listening to his music......gonna show how it is done!! See my fingers??

Gonna bebop those Blue Jays to VICTORY this afternoon.....our whole country has shut down and is home from work...bring on the wine!!!!!

 

[Lord Pmann]

I'm fat and ordinary. I've been told I'm beautiful, but discussions like this one make that difficult to believe.

Do you trust the person who told you that to be telling you the truth, as they see it?

I've been told by people far better looking than me that I'm really nice looking. I think it had to do with who I was as a person, more than my looks. Maybe my incredible fashion sense too.

Beauty is a less quantifiable measure than, say, intelligence. Or athletic ability. There are certain things that are- symmetry, clear skin, etc. But most things are, as everyone says, in the eyes of the bee holders.

 

[ViciousTease]

I wasn't responding to any particular comment and I don't even disagree with anything that was said. I was just thinking out loud.

Now, is anyone else in here old enough to remember this? *busts out doing the running man and transitions seamlessly into the humpty dance*

 

[Lord Pmann]

I was just thinking out loud.

Oh how Ed Sheeran of you.

 

[Endless_Night]

Ahh... its definitely not your fashion sense.

Two words.

Lobster pants.

*shudders*

 

[All_4_Love]

Oh how Ed Sheeran of you.

And now, I'm laughing out loud.

 

[Mindfondler]

Recently I saw something (it could have even been a post at lit) about the "you're beautiful" movement. Essentially the thought is that, no, not everyone is beautiful. That there was a disservice by allowing someone to think they are beautiful when they aren't. Just like there are varying degrees of intelligence or athletic ability, there are also varying degrees of beauty. That somehow we're becoming a society of "participation trophies" and that all of this makes us ill prepared for the realities of life where some win, some lose, some make lots of money, others don't ......etc

I'm not sure, quite honestly, where I am with this. I'm a firm believer in having confidence but I'm not a fan of participation trophies.

Enlighten me, teach me, let me hear your thoughts.

I'd like to make a distinction between beauty and attractiveness. I've seen plenty of women who are undoubtedly beautiful but whom I don't find attractive at all (and, no, that's not sour grapes because I'm nowhere near their league!). I might want to be seen with them for trophy value, but that's all.

To me, attractiveness is a mysterious composite: a mixture of physical appeal, personality and confidence. I'd argue that it's more important than sheer beauty -- and the great news is that everyone can have it.

I'll refer also to the wisdom of Roald Dahl:

“If a person has ugly thoughts, it begins to show on the face. And when that person has ugly thoughts every day, every week, every year, the face gets uglier and uglier until you can hardly bear to look at it.

A person who has good thoughts cannot ever be ugly. You can have a wonky nose and a crooked mouth and a double chin and stick-out teeth, but if you have good thoughts it will shine out of your face like sunbeams and you will always look lovely.”

.

 

[All_4_Love]

I'll refer also to the wisdom of Roald Dahl:

.

There is much truth and wisdom to be gleaned from his quote.

 

[GiggLeGasm]

I'd like to comment on participation trophies. They originally began when we decided that 5 years olds needed to participate in organized sports. Personally, I think I should have received a trophy for being the best Snack Mom - but I was ruthlessly overlooked.
At 5 years old, what is a child really supposed to learn from an organized sport?
You learn that you must show up.
You learn that there are rules.
You learn to play as a team.
You learn to take your baseball glove home so that your mother doesn't need to drag you BACK to the sporting goods store before the next game. (to take care of the equipment)

In my opinion, at 5 years old, that deserves a cheap trophy. Eventually, it should go away. Kids eventually play for the love of the game or the love of their friends. Some play for the love of their parents.. but that's a different discussion and kind of sad.

We did sports all the way into college with my sons. They were good. Some kids were better. Some kids were worse. There wasn't a kid on the team who didn't know who kinda sucked.. and who was the go-to kid in a clutch. They didn't need it engraved into a plaque. All any of them really wanted was a t-shirt.. with their number. It was a silent acknowledgement of self-respect. They all knew the work it took to get there.

As parents, we tend to think that the trophy means something - that it sends the wrong message that every player did the same. Seriously, these kids already know.
As participants, the part that means something is that silent pride of knowing.
I think that most kids would be ok if we did away with all trophies and just let them go eat pizza with their friends while the adults argued about the call in the third inning that could have cost us the game ...or the one unfair judge at the science fair ...or the band director who always let the favorite kids sit first chair.

As far as.. Everyone is Beautiful..
why not challenge this conventional definition of beauty? And don't even say "... to someone"
Why are we afraid to let someone feel beautiful?
Are we afraid that beauty will become the participation trophy of the adult world and somehow lose its meaning?

Come on over. We can play. We can both be beautiful and get trophies.
(just realize that I'll probably bring a better snack)

 

[TheSilverLining]

I'll refer also to the wisdom of Roald Dahl:

There is much truth and wisdom to be gleaned from his quote.

I fucking love a Roald Dahl quote.
I have very little to say on the subject matter at hand because it pushes some rather ugly buttons for me.
Although I will agree with those who are anti-participation trophy. We have a generation growing-up believing that life owes them something....that's just not what I believe. Good things come to those who work for them.

Oh, and (slightly off topic so sorry Papa C) have another Dahl quote. This one's my favourite:

https://mydecadelongtravels.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/rd.jpg?w=620

I think this could quite easily be about beauty......

 

[All_4_Love]

As far as.. Everyone is Beautiful..
why not challenge this conventional definition of beauty? And don't even say "... to someone"
Why are we afraid to let someone feel beautiful?
Are we afraid that beauty will become the participation trophy of the adult world and somehow lose its meaning?

Come on over. We can play. We can both be beautiful and get trophies.
(just realize that I'll probably bring a better snack)

I love it! Whatever snack you bring, I'm going to enjoy every bite, and then we are going to sit together and be beautiful while we admire our trophies.

 

[BlueEyedGent]

Everyone is different, and everyone has different views on what beauty is...and it is quite surprising that every culture has it's own idea as to what is beautiful.

For example...
Ethiopia: Scars on a woman is considered to be super sexy, and many women actually self inflict their bodies to enhance themselves...the more scars the more "ooo la la " she is.

also in southern Ethiopia women will stretch their lips by inserting clay plates into their lower lips...which is a symbol of sexual maturity...Meowwwwwww!

Mauratanian women are told that they need to gain weight, they actually send teenage girls to camps where they consume 15, 000 calories per day!..and no , I didn't accidentally add an extra zero...you read it correctly, 15, 000! I am certain these women do no eat like rabbits.

In Iran, women will wear bandages after getting a nose job even long after they have healed, because it is a status symbol...so they walk around , feeling sexy with bandages covering their nose...mmmmmmmm, hold me back baby!

Kenyan women will elongate their earlobes using elephant tusks to stretch them as far as they can ....damn, that must hurt

New Zealand women will tattoo their lips and chins, the more tattoos the more beautiful she is...

I could sit here and type for hours, you see where I am going...

Beauty cannot be defined, specifically...for we all have our own image in our mind as to what beauty is to us...

I do like what Mindfondler added to his post, with the wisdom from Dahl..

Also, kudos to "Giggles"... as always ,you made very thought provoking statements...

I'll play...but I wanna be on your team please
and I will bring an assortment of pizzas
if you bring
your famous snacks
I am sure that 15, 000 calories will add up in no time
and
maybe just maybe
you can elongate your earlobe
or tattoo your chin? Hubba Hubba

But then again, you are already BEAUTIFUL, in so many ways...
You don't need to do anything
except continue being
YOU!

 

[GiggLeGasm]

The only creatures who need elephant tusks are elephants. Amen.