Literotica at its best

[HawaiiBill]

Though I've searched, nothing comes up within these web pages on the goals of Literotica. If none have been stated each of us in the community is reasonably allowed to decide what we think are the best parts and find ways we can individually help it be the best possible collection of modern erotica.

Me? I love sex. Always have and still do at my advanced age and remote location from the real world where you guys are getting more than I am! Dammit.

Part of that love of sex is pure enjoyment in an erotic story that revives the excitement and release I knew as a young man in passionate embrace. For that, I love Literotica. But it's not the only reason!

There is a serious side to this old cowboy, too. That part is satisfied by what I see as the largest collection of sexual and erotic fantasy and reality available to the public. It's a scholarly treasure trove.

Written by thousands of writers with talents ranging from struggling amateur to richly accomplished, the words and images can be exhalting, funny, clumsy, a little sad or too poorly written to be enjoyable. Those last are valuable, too.

But within all this variety, is there a core of work that is close to any original intent of the founders? I'd write Laurel and Manu asking what that might be but I fear an answer would spoil the sweet mystery.

So I do what I can to polish the value I most enjoy, making the few stories I'm given a little more literate, brightening the corner where my computer sits, if you'll pardon me that.

Really good writing gets me off, in other words, so I want to help authors make their prose -- or poetry -- as polished as possible while retaining their unique and individual flavor and purpose in telling. So I edit, bringing 40 years of professional writing and editing to the happy chore.

What do you think?

 

[Weird Harold]

Though I've searched, nothing comes up within these web pages on the goals of Literotica. If none have been stated each of us in the community is reasonably allowed to decide what we think are the best parts and find ways we can individually help it be the best possible collection of modern erotica.
...
But within all this variety, is there a core of work that is close to any original intent of the founders? I'd write Laurel and Manu asking what that might be but I fear an answer would spoil the sweet mystery.

The name of this site "Literate Erotica" is the best clue to the original intent.

The closest thing to a "core of work" that is close to the original intent of the founders can be found here: http://www.literotica.com/book/

 

[HawaiiBill]

Yes, but....

Harold, thank you for that but it's hard for me to consider a hardcopy book with a dozen stories as the "core" of an online collection approaching a third of a million pieces, if you get my drift.

My suggestion is that Literotica presently transcends any modest hopes that were present at it's conception. Ahem.

And my point is that those of us who appreciate what we have now might band together to focus our effort to continue and expand quality in the site. What can we best do to help, in other words. There may be as many answers as there are folks working.

My own thought on editing is to allow submissions as they are now but -- where editing is requested -- to make it as careful as possible, both to retain the writer's intent and 'voice' while gussying up the grammar, etc. I do not think every piece needs to win a Pulitzer for precise grammar or style.

I try again: What do you think?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

We had a brief discussion of this shortly after I joined Literotica in October of 2002. The issue was: should Literotica be a site for the best in erotic literature, or should it be a site where anyone can post pretty much whatever they want.

I admit to having taken the elitist point of view. I wanted the site to have high standards and encourage good writing, but the general feeling was that this should be a site for everyone to make of it what they will, and I see now that’s the best attitude.

---dr.M.

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Yes, but....

Harold, thank you for that but it's hard for me to consider a hardcopy book with a dozen stories as the "core" of an online collection approaching a third of a million pieces, if you get my drift.

My suggestion is that Literotica presently transcends any modest hopes that were present at it's conception. Ahem.
...
I try again: What do you think?

The Literotica book, and it's sequel aren't the full "core" of Literotica, but it IS a sample of what Literotica was meant to achieve -- a place where literacy is as important as eroticism and authors can be proud to be associated with the site.

I may be biased because one of my stories is included in the anthology, but I do believe that the stories in the book are a good representation of what every story on Literotica should aspire to -- all of them are literate, well told stories that prove that "Erotica" doesn't have to bow to the "it's only a porn story, who cares about spelling and grammar" syndrome.

Literotica certainly exceeds the original expectations as far as quatitiy is concerned, but not the hopes for the quality of the stories here. The quality of the stories here are higher than the general offerings on the internet because Laurel won't accept less.

As Volunteer Editors, we should aid authors to attain Literotica's goal of presenting Literate Erotica -- weed out the spelling errors, misused words, gigantic paragraphs, and endless sentences -- without compromising the STORY the author wants to tell.

For some authors, that entails simple proofreading and for others, it entails a private tutoring in the English language.

 

[snooper]

Though I've searched, nothing comes up within these web pages on the goals of Literotica.

The purpose of this site is to make money for the group of people collectively known as "Laurel". I would have thought that was quite clear and obvious.
How the authors and readers use the site is of little importance provided they don't get it closed down and enough suckers click through the ads to pay sites.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Re: Re: Literotica at its best

The purpose of this site is to make money for the group of people collectively known as "Laurel". I would have thought that was quite clear and obvious.
How the authors and readers use the site is of little importance provided they don't get it closed down and enough suckers click through the ads to pay sites.

I consider myself a cynic’s cynic, but Snooper, you surpass me.

No doubt Laurel (sunbathing on her yacht in the Mediteranean and lighting cigars with hundred-dollar bills) is compensated for maintaining this site, but if money were all that mattered she wouldn’t bother reading every submission to the site (my God, what an odious task!) in an attempt to insure quality. She wouldn’t maintain boards for discussing authorship and critiquing stories, which are not much of a draw for the wanking public, or work to maintain authors’ rights over their published stories, or do any of a hundred of other things that make Literotica so much better than any other erotic story site on the web.

---dr.M.

 

[HawaiiBill]

This thread discusses a better world

Literotica is an extremely valuable resource for many reasons. There are as many reasons for enjoying its offerings as there are readers but there are no reasons for mindless criticism. Just as Literotica is free for its enjoyment, the exit is also without charge.

Without question, there are many who want to pitch in and help with improvements and this thread is meant to explore ways to help while keeping the fundamental qualities intact.

 

[snooper]

Re: Re: Re: Literotica at its best

... but if money were all that mattered she wouldn’t bother reading every submission to the site ...

As I remarked elsewhere, one person reading every story would be hard work.

3000 words/story (1 Lit page), 50 stories a day, reading at 400 words/minute (consistently) takes 375 minutes, which is 6¼ hours each and every one of the 366 days this year. No holidays, no time for chasing copyrights, no allowance for load time, no allowance for writing responses, no time for emails or PMs. Even if we assume that Manu does all the technical stuff, like posting, maintenance, etc., and that the moderators do all the work of maintaining the fora, I still contend that "Laurel" is necessarily a composite of more than one breathing body.

While I am cynical by nature, this is not cynicism, this is physiology.

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Literotica at its best

reading at 400 words/minute (consistently)

Not everyone reads as slow as you do.

 

[yaspis]

Snooper, dear, if you do have a problem with this site, no one is making you visit it. Surely you have the right to speak your mind, but whining to us does no good. If you find yourself deeply troubled with Laurel's workload or other things concerning this site, do contact her. That is not forbidden, I imagine.

 

[HawaiiBill]

. . . all that said

If we can un-hijack this thread it would make me feel a little more comfortable for having started it. What can be done to help?

My hope was to read suggestions for helping make Literotica live up to its potential. We have a treasure in this web site, one that clearly means a lot to literally hundreds of thousands of folks. My suggestion is that -- as volunteer editors -- we seek to improve the quality of writing in the stories we are given to edit.

What should that entail?

What else might be suggested to help those who 'publish' the pages?

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: . . . all that said

My suggestion is that -- as volunteer editors -- we seek to improve the quality of writing in the stories we are given to edit.

What should that entail?

What else might be suggested to help those who 'publish' the pages?

I think there are two things that volunteer editors can do to ease Laurel's workload.

1: Help guide authors to more "readable" stories. I mean "Readable" in the sense of being physically easy to read -- shorter paragraphs, clearer sentences, and all of the other technical factors mentioned in the thrads in the author's hangout about writing to a specific grade level and readability statistics.

The easier the stories are to read, the faster Laurel can work through them and get them posted or rejected for content instead of technical problems.

2: Volunteer editors should be familiar with the rules of what can and can't be posted at Lit and, as much as possible, the nuances of those rules -- things like the difference between rape fantasy and rapist fantasy and the difference between admitting underage sex and describing underage sex.

If volunteer editors can steer authors away from submitting borderline stories that require closer reading or even multiple readings to make the decision to accept or reject, then Laurel will spend less time on marginal stories and be able to make a decision quickly. Every story that would definitely be rejected that can be discouraged from being submitted is one less story for Laurel to read and pass judgement on.

 

[HawaiiBill]

Hear, Hear!

Every story that would definitely be rejected that can be discouraged from being submitted is one less story for Laurel to read and pass judgement on.

A very good, commendably short recommendation. Though I've looked, it's hard to find "the rules of what can and can't be posted at Lit and, as much as possible, the nuances of those rules." We all need that, writers and editors both. Did I miss it on some page?

As us guys in Hawai`i say, Mahalo Harold.

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Hear, Hear!

A very good, commendably short recommendation. Though I've looked, it's hard to find "the rules of what can and can't be posted at Lit and, as much as possible, the nuances of those rules." We all need that, writers and editors both. Did I miss it on some page?

As us guys in Hawai`i say, Mahalo Harold.

The rules are posted in the submission guidlelines; no sexual participation under 18, no snuff, no bestiality, etc.

The nuances of those rules can be found in this forum and inthe author's hangout in threads like "750 words, is there another way" where people complain about their stories being rejected and those of us who have worked with Laurel for a long time try to guess at Laurel's reasons for rejection.

In essence, I'm saying that volunteer editors should have some experience with Literotica in addition to the technical aspects of writing.

In broader terms, any editor should have some familiarity with the intended venue for what they're editing and help shape the work for the intended market. The requirements for "The Weekly Reader" (a children's magazine) are different than the requirements for Literotica and so should the editor's comments be.

 

[snooper]

Snooper, dear, if you do have a problem with this site, no one is making you visit it. Surely you have the right to speak your mind, but whining to us does no good. If you find yourself deeply troubled with Laurel's workload or other things concerning this site, do contact her. That is not forbidden, I imagine.

I really don't see what I did wrong. This thread started with a question about the "goals of Literotica". All I did was point out that this is not a service provided by someone pro bono and that it is now so large that there cannot be just one person checking the submissions against the rules.

The goals of the writers on this site are clearly different from the "read only" users. The goals of the forum participants are again different. I still think that there are people who own this site who have goals different from those three groups.

How that can be defined as whining is beyond me.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Snooper, you are forgiven, on my part at least. All you did was to come to the celebratory dinner and wonder aloud how much the guest of honor paid for his toupee, is all. It reminds me of Oscar Wilde’s definition of a cynic as one who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

As far as Literotica itself goes, it has a very special place in my life, as corny as that may sound. I discovered Lit just when I really needed it most as a place to retest my skills as a writer and gain some confidence, and the site and the people here have repaid my efforts many times over. Not only is it a great porn site, but it is a great writing site as well: the best I have found on the web.

I try to give back some of what I’ve taken from here by hanging out a lot in the Story Feedback board and doing what I can to critique stories and work to maintain the quality of the writing. It seems a shame to me that there are so few of us regulars who hang out there—RainbowSkin, Hiddenself, Singularity, Max Sebastian, RumplesForeskin, and some others are more or less regulars—but I realize that not everyone is comfortable critiquing stories. I tend to be a particularly tough critic and I’m often sorry about that, but that’s just the way I am. I try to present my criticisms in a positive light and avoid any nastiness or ad hominem attacks

One of the simplest things all of us can do to make this a better place is to acceded to the authors’ wishes regarding feedback and even voting, and take the time to drop a line when we like something in a story. As an author, I can attest to how important and meaningful that is, and what a great inducement to keep quality up.

---dr.M.

 

[snooper]

Snooper, you are forgiven, on my part at least. All you did was to come to the celebratory dinner and wonder aloud how much the guest of honor paid for his toupee ...

My thoughts were more in the sartorial-taste-of-monarchs area, actually.

... One of the simplest things all of us can do to make this a better place is to acceded to the authors’ wishes regarding feedback and even voting, and take the time to drop a line when we like something in a story. As an author, I can attest to how important and meaningful that is, and what a great inducement to keep quality up ...

As an author, I also like feedback, even from people who have already given me the greatest compliment possible, shelling out hard-earned cash to read my words.

... I try to give back some of what I’ve taken from here by hanging out a lot in the Story Feedback board and doing what I can to critique stories and work to maintain the quality of the writing. It seems a shame to me that there are so few of us regulars who hang out there—RainbowSkin, Hiddenself, Singularity, Max Sebastian, RumplesForeskin, and some others are more or less regulars—but I realize that not everyone is comfortable critiquing stories...

I don't go to the Story Feedback board at all often, and I never post on there. When I offer critical analysis, I prefer to do it privately, via the Volunteer Editor scheme. That is because I, personally, prefer criticism to be an accurate reflection of the reader's perceptions. On places like the SFB there is a tendency to "showboat" criticisms on the part of some critics.

 

[HawaiiBill]

A trick

Enjoy everything you encounter. The world -- let alone Literotica -- wasn't made with you in mind. There's offering enough to spend time only where you feel welcome and comfortable. Don't criticize the rest, however, because one day you might mature and learn to enjoy and appreciate those parts, too.

 

[Carillon]

I realize that no one has posted in this thread in a little while, but I thought I would add my two cents. This is my first post, as I only recently became a member of this site about a week ago. I have also applied to become a volunteer editorl, as I too would like to improve the quality of fiction offered here. However, I have enjoyed the contents of this site for a few years now.

I found Literotica by typing "erotic literature" into a search engine. This choice in words was deliberate, as I was looking for fiction that was not only spicy, sexy, and a little salacious, but also well written. I wanted something with plot, characterization, and even setting, but also something that I could get off on. I wasn't sure if I was asking too much.

As it turns out, I wasn't. What I have found here is a site so diverse that it has something for everyone. Some of the best pieces of erotic fiction have been ones that I have read here, but there have also been some that made me laugh, whether because of spelling slips, malapropisms, or just because the stories were so unrealistic that they bordered on physically impossible.

I realize I am a newcomer, and that I may not have yet experienced enough of the site to fully grasp its meaning, or its "core" as I believe someone referred to it as. However, I see this site as one that the layperson can enjoy, though I do not believe this means we must sacrifice the quality of writing on it.

We are all here for different reasons. Some people will never read this message because they are here only to read the stories. Others will take more of an interest in the inner workings of the site itself, and of the quality of fiction it accepts and posts, and as editors - or prospective editors in my case - I believe we mainly fall into this latter category.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that perhaps the "core" meaning of this site is so difficult to pin down because it is so dependent on the individual. Some will come here looking for quality fiction, while others will be satisfied with pieces that are less grammatically perfect. Others are here as authors, to express their fantasies and ideas and to excite those who read their stories. Still others, I'm sure, couldn't care less about the fiction but frequent the site for its "naughty" flash games, or Aspacia's advice column. This is probably why the site is so diverse in the first place.

In the end we all return because we have found something we are looking for, regardless of what it is, and I think that itself speaks volumes for the site's quality.

 

[HawaiiBill]

Welcome to the club!

Carillon,

Your post is most welcome to see and the fact it is your first on Literotica is appreciated. Just think, with all the things that make us diverse, we all started with one first entry!

In more ways than one.

I look forward to your future posts and like what I read above.

Aloha from the middle of the Pacific Ocean,

 

[Carillon]

Thank you for your warm welcome, Hawai'i Bill. I hope we encounter each other again in the future.

I'm sure we will.

~Carillon

 

[HawaiiBill]

How are you doing, Carillon?

Carillon,

Just checking thr forums and noted it's been a couple of weeks since you first checked in. Presume you have done some exploring on Literotica and wonder if your thoughts have changed, matured, wandered or been fulfilled by all the goodies?