lilminx's dilemma
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MissTaken
Biker Chick
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I don't think it would be unethical.
We need to do whatever we can to be safe.
However, it seems that it would be unnecessary unless minxie was considering moving forward with this Dom.
I have a sub and a Dom who help me screen the people I am talking with on line.
They become involved when it looks as though the relationship could move into telephone contact or something else equally as revealing and personal.
We need to do whatever we can to be safe.
However, it seems that it would be unnecessary unless minxie was considering moving forward with this Dom.
I have a sub and a Dom who help me screen the people I am talking with on line.
They become involved when it looks as though the relationship could move into telephone contact or something else equally as revealing and personal.
Lancecastor
Lit's Most Beloved Poster
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One time....
....a few years ago, I answered a personals ad online from a submissive woman seeking a master.
We exchanged several notes, all very pleasant, in which I was a complete gentleman.
Or so I thought.
For after about two weeks of notes, I asked if she felt comfortable enough to meet for a coffee by day in public and I recommended a few places.
I then received a dozen page diatribe from some asshole who, it turned out, had been playing the role of this woman, who was a friend of his 24/7 tpe sub.
He proceeded to dissect virtually everything I'd said in the preceeding two weeks to show me how unworthy I was to have any contact with the woman in question.
He was 100% wrong in his "analysis" of me, and I was furious.
Notwithstanding the fact that I'd wasted 2 weeks of my life establishing rapport with a fraud, I was embarassed, pissed off....and ready to wring the fucker's neck.
By happenstance, I met the puss-bag a week later at a club...his name was unique.
I tore a strip off that mealy-mouthed little fuckball so high and hard he was crying by the time I was finished with him, all in full view and earshot of "his" women.
And two years later I can still feel anger at how that (well-intentioned??) asshole fucked with me.
If there's one thing I object to it's the patriarchical protectionist bullshit that goes on in bdsm scenes....because it's interfering with people getting to know each other.
D or s.....we're adults and can carry on our own relationships and make our own decisions, thanks very much.
Most of this stuff that D and/or s people do to "protect" each other is a game.
I ask.....who are the "players" in this charade that is formulating in this thread?
And who is being set up to be the real "victim"?
I think the lady can look after herself and doesn't need a posse of "helpers" in this scenario.
Lance
....a few years ago, I answered a personals ad online from a submissive woman seeking a master.
We exchanged several notes, all very pleasant, in which I was a complete gentleman.
Or so I thought.
For after about two weeks of notes, I asked if she felt comfortable enough to meet for a coffee by day in public and I recommended a few places.
I then received a dozen page diatribe from some asshole who, it turned out, had been playing the role of this woman, who was a friend of his 24/7 tpe sub.
He proceeded to dissect virtually everything I'd said in the preceeding two weeks to show me how unworthy I was to have any contact with the woman in question.
He was 100% wrong in his "analysis" of me, and I was furious.
Notwithstanding the fact that I'd wasted 2 weeks of my life establishing rapport with a fraud, I was embarassed, pissed off....and ready to wring the fucker's neck.
By happenstance, I met the puss-bag a week later at a club...his name was unique.
I tore a strip off that mealy-mouthed little fuckball so high and hard he was crying by the time I was finished with him, all in full view and earshot of "his" women.
And two years later I can still feel anger at how that (well-intentioned??) asshole fucked with me.
If there's one thing I object to it's the patriarchical protectionist bullshit that goes on in bdsm scenes....because it's interfering with people getting to know each other.
D or s.....we're adults and can carry on our own relationships and make our own decisions, thanks very much.
Most of this stuff that D and/or s people do to "protect" each other is a game.
I ask.....who are the "players" in this charade that is formulating in this thread?
And who is being set up to be the real "victim"?
I think the lady can look after herself and doesn't need a posse of "helpers" in this scenario.
Lance
MissTaken
Biker Chick
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Well, Lance,
What you described is absolutely not responsible. In fact, it leads me to believe that the "she" in question was a player and I have heard of situations wherein silly, hurtful games are played.
But, to share the name of someone on bondage.com and ask a friend to comment on the profile, to share some of what has been said and feelings on the matter seems responsible.
Whether considering meeting a Dom, a sub, a nilla type or a fucking bullfrog, it is always best to go with a second perspective no matter how you chose to get that perspective. Courtesy and common sense should come into play.
Issues with your experience?
~We are all grown ups. Is she wasn't interested, SHE should have said so.
~Two weeks to get cold feet? She must have had them before. Unfortunately, too many people on line don't have the balls to simply say, "Thanks, but no thanks." They then, run around trying to set up a concrete reason why they aren't interested. If they can blame you, their concience is cleared. Silly, isn't it? Why isn't it okay to just NOT be interested? I dunno. Works for me.
~I wonder what role the "he" in your scenario was really trying to play? Was she looking for a Dom, or did she have one?
The Big Brother Protector is out of line, but careful consideration with friends is natural and necessary anytime you plan to spend time with a virtual stranger.
I don't blame you for being pissed off. I would have been as well.
What you described is absolutely not responsible. In fact, it leads me to believe that the "she" in question was a player and I have heard of situations wherein silly, hurtful games are played.
But, to share the name of someone on bondage.com and ask a friend to comment on the profile, to share some of what has been said and feelings on the matter seems responsible.
Whether considering meeting a Dom, a sub, a nilla type or a fucking bullfrog, it is always best to go with a second perspective no matter how you chose to get that perspective. Courtesy and common sense should come into play.
Issues with your experience?
~We are all grown ups. Is she wasn't interested, SHE should have said so.
~Two weeks to get cold feet? She must have had them before. Unfortunately, too many people on line don't have the balls to simply say, "Thanks, but no thanks." They then, run around trying to set up a concrete reason why they aren't interested. If they can blame you, their concience is cleared. Silly, isn't it? Why isn't it okay to just NOT be interested? I dunno. Works for me.
~I wonder what role the "he" in your scenario was really trying to play? Was she looking for a Dom, or did she have one?
The Big Brother Protector is out of line, but careful consideration with friends is natural and necessary anytime you plan to spend time with a virtual stranger.
I don't blame you for being pissed off. I would have been as well.
Lancecastor
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Hmmm....
......I think I punched my own buttons there!
Thanks for listening, MissTaken.
Lance
......I think I punched my own buttons there!
Thanks for listening, MissTaken.
Lance
lilminx
...
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Well, I honestly don't think he is going to get back to me after my last e-mail to him- lol. It would be nice to get someone else's opinion of him, but his profile doesn't say too much. If someone does look at his profile for me, would it be unethical for me to also share the back and forth e-mail that I had with him, just so they could get a more thorough take on it?
Lancecastor
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Ick!
I knew you sounded familiar!
Mom!!!
Get out of my sock drawer!
Those are MY letters, and they're private!!!
Lance
lilminx said:
I knew you sounded familiar!
Mom!!!
Get out of my sock drawer!
Those are MY letters, and they're private!!!
Lance
I think I would have issues of the "undercover" part myself. For myself, I would try to get to know some one as well as I could either online (email) or over the phone first. If something strikes me odd at that point, I am usually let by instinct. If all goes well, I will agree to a very public, rather brief (no more than 3 hours) meeting in a place where conversation can flow, but always in sight of other people. (Granted, not always in ear shot of regular conversation)
If there is something that might be nagging, I would consider asking some one more knowledgable to check the guy out - look at his profile, see if it seems on the up and up. If there were one or issues that I was having difficulty with, I might ask the man in question if he would consider talking to a friend of mine. But this would occur early on, within the first week or two, and I would do it openly, not undercover or in secrecy. If I really felt strongly about the situation, I would simply not agree to meet with them. So, it would have to be something where almost everything was a "go", but there was something nagging in the back of my mind.
As far as sharing emails? Well, I wouldn't go there. First of all, when I write an email to some one, even if it isn't personal, I would feel betrayed if I found out it had been shared without my prior knowledge. Summarizing what some one said is okay, but can be dicey especially if a third party is going to confront the person with it.
I would say, if it is at all needed, that the potential sub simply tell the potential Dom that there is a friend s/he would like them to meet, and take it from there. I would do out in the open, not undercover. (Of course, merely checking out another's public profile online is not something I would consider to be undercover)
But then, that's just my .02 worth.
If there is something that might be nagging, I would consider asking some one more knowledgable to check the guy out - look at his profile, see if it seems on the up and up. If there were one or issues that I was having difficulty with, I might ask the man in question if he would consider talking to a friend of mine. But this would occur early on, within the first week or two, and I would do it openly, not undercover or in secrecy. If I really felt strongly about the situation, I would simply not agree to meet with them. So, it would have to be something where almost everything was a "go", but there was something nagging in the back of my mind.
As far as sharing emails? Well, I wouldn't go there. First of all, when I write an email to some one, even if it isn't personal, I would feel betrayed if I found out it had been shared without my prior knowledge. Summarizing what some one said is okay, but can be dicey especially if a third party is going to confront the person with it.
I would say, if it is at all needed, that the potential sub simply tell the potential Dom that there is a friend s/he would like them to meet, and take it from there. I would do out in the open, not undercover. (Of course, merely checking out another's public profile online is not something I would consider to be undercover)
But then, that's just my .02 worth.
Never
Come What May
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WriterDom:
"Would it be unethical for her to ask cym or Rs to go undercover to check this guy out? I'm curious because I recently met a sub under an undercover name that she was using to check out her Dom friend. It turned out he was a player."
Um, gee WD. I can understand the undercover thing, though I'm not comfortable with it. However, I don't think requesting forum mods to do this is the best idea.
Perhaps this would be better handled with a PM to a friend than with a public post to a Moderator.
"Would it be unethical for her to ask cym or Rs to go undercover to check this guy out? I'm curious because I recently met a sub under an undercover name that she was using to check out her Dom friend. It turned out he was a player."
Um, gee WD. I can understand the undercover thing, though I'm not comfortable with it. However, I don't think requesting forum mods to do this is the best idea.
Perhaps this would be better handled with a PM to a friend than with a public post to a Moderator.
cymbidia
unrepentant pervert
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I've had R look into people at bondage with whom i was considering beginning some kinda dialogue. I know her. I trust her instincts. I wanted her "read" on those people.
I'm *not* inexperienced at BDSM beginning or online personals or any of this kinda stuff - and i still asked for her input.
I think if one wants such assistance from friends, they should ask for it. We each have our own comfort zones, our places of competence and uneasiness - and if we feel like asking a friend to help us out with an opinon, why not?
Your experience was bad, Lance, but that doesn't mean anyone else's will mirror yours in *any* way.
I wouldn't do the undercover thing, personally, because it feels dishonest to me. I would, however, go check out someone's profile and/or engage in some online chat with them (openly, as a friend to the party of the first part ) and then give my reactions and opinions to my friend (with the strict understanding that they are just and only my own).
I'm *not* inexperienced at BDSM beginning or online personals or any of this kinda stuff - and i still asked for her input.
I think if one wants such assistance from friends, they should ask for it. We each have our own comfort zones, our places of competence and uneasiness - and if we feel like asking a friend to help us out with an opinon, why not?
Your experience was bad, Lance, but that doesn't mean anyone else's will mirror yours in *any* way.
I wouldn't do the undercover thing, personally, because it feels dishonest to me. I would, however, go check out someone's profile and/or engage in some online chat with them (openly, as a friend to the party of the first part
) and then give my reactions and opinions to my friend (with the strict understanding that they are just and only my own).
Hecate
Lady Hecate will do
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My limits to "undercover"
Dating is never easy, specially when, as many of us do, we are doing it online and not with a direct person that we meet, see, hear the voice, see facial expressions, smell, can judge reactions and take notice of the little, even subconscious actions and gestures they display.
Getting a second opinion has always been part of the "dating game" though.Remember sharing all those little details and news with your friend about the guy you had just met, who he was, what he did, where he came from...? I know I did! there wasn't much I would know about a pontential bf that I wouldn't relate to some choice person of my trusting to get their opinion.
And haven't we all sent our those little letter "on behalf of our frined" to see what another person thought about them, checking out possibly mutual feelings or at least avoiding embarrassment?
There were no "real risks" involved back then apart froma bit of lost dignity and a broken heart till the end of the summer holidays. And there is so much more on stake if you head out into a BDSM search. You can loose all from reputation, career to your life (ok, maybe I AM exaggerating but you catch my drift ... ) if you aren't carefull. On the other hand - there is so much to be won.
I still do swap information about interesting profiles I find with trusted friends, I may exchange a bit of background info about someone if I have gotten in touch (I NEVER exchange full correspondence, that feels a bit dodgy and not honest). I will discuss impressions, feelings, little "bumps" that stirr me the right or wrong way, just like I used to do when dating at age 16, no more, no less.
If there is a potential partner who seems geniuinely interested, usually he/she won't oppose to be brought in touch with other online friends of the other party. For them to know they are known by others who are "on your side" heightens the risks at a later stage for them to be exposed if they turn out to be a fraud, they know you are part of healthy community life, and not a "screen monster" who has nothing else to do, is isolated and thus easy prey. So why not follow the open approach? Nothing wrong with "Mind if I introduce you to a few of my friends?" if you think the further development is worth your while?
I do think a "second opinion" on officially available info like a profile is ok, without ever mentioning it, a bit of discussion with your freinds about a potential play partner is to be expected and is ok. All that goes beyond that in ways of being "sneaky", like sending a friened to "seduce" your possible partner to see how serious he is etc. is taking things too far, in Rl and online.
Never forgdt that after all ther are REAL people behind all the typed words on screens - anyway, in most cases there are. Simply follow the "don't do to others what you don't want to be done to you " rule and you should be fine.
Dating is never easy, specially when, as many of us do, we are doing it online and not with a direct person that we meet, see, hear the voice, see facial expressions, smell, can judge reactions and take notice of the little, even subconscious actions and gestures they display.
Getting a second opinion has always been part of the "dating game" though.Remember sharing all those little details and news with your friend about the guy you had just met, who he was, what he did, where he came from...? I know I did! there wasn't much I would know about a pontential bf that I wouldn't relate to some choice person of my trusting to get their opinion.
And haven't we all sent our those little letter "on behalf of our frined" to see what another person thought about them, checking out possibly mutual feelings or at least avoiding embarrassment?
There were no "real risks" involved back then apart froma bit of lost dignity and a broken heart till the end of the summer holidays. And there is so much more on stake if you head out into a BDSM search. You can loose all from reputation, career to your life (ok, maybe I AM exaggerating but you catch my drift ... ) if you aren't carefull. On the other hand - there is so much to be won.
I still do swap information about interesting profiles I find with trusted friends, I may exchange a bit of background info about someone if I have gotten in touch (I NEVER exchange full correspondence, that feels a bit dodgy and not honest). I will discuss impressions, feelings, little "bumps" that stirr me the right or wrong way, just like I used to do when dating at age 16, no more, no less.
If there is a potential partner who seems geniuinely interested, usually he/she won't oppose to be brought in touch with other online friends of the other party. For them to know they are known by others who are "on your side" heightens the risks at a later stage for them to be exposed if they turn out to be a fraud, they know you are part of healthy community life, and not a "screen monster" who has nothing else to do, is isolated and thus easy prey. So why not follow the open approach? Nothing wrong with "Mind if I introduce you to a few of my friends?" if you think the further development is worth your while?
I do think a "second opinion" on officially available info like a profile is ok, without ever mentioning it, a bit of discussion with your freinds about a potential play partner is to be expected and is ok. All that goes beyond that in ways of being "sneaky", like sending a friened to "seduce" your possible partner to see how serious he is etc. is taking things too far, in Rl and online.
Never forgdt that after all ther are REAL people behind all the typed words on screens - anyway, in most cases there are. Simply follow the "don't do to others what you don't want to be done to you " rule and you should be fine.
Lancecastor
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One bad apple.....
...don't spoil the whole bunch.
And my happy times online have exceeded my unhappy ones.
My story was trotted out to illustrate how very unseemly it is to be gaming others.
Having your friend check a profile is cool.
But showing everyone at Lit a profile from bondage.com and dicussing the person...maybe with quotes from his email in a thread?
Count me out if that's what is being suggested.
g'day;
Lance
cymbidia said:
...don't spoil the whole bunch.
And my happy times online have exceeded my unhappy ones.
My story was trotted out to illustrate how very unseemly it is to be gaming others.
Having your friend check a profile is cool.
But showing everyone at Lit a profile from bondage.com and dicussing the person...maybe with quotes from his email in a thread?
Count me out if that's what is being suggested.
g'day;
Lance
Lancecastor
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Agreed
Agreed, WD, that having a close, real life friend check out who you're considering getting naked with is always a fine and sensible idea.
A new friend visited me last weekend in the country, a place with no phone or cellular access in the middle of nowhere.
I made sure her roomate had our coordinates, including a number to call, before she got on the plane.
I think that good manners reveal themselves in the course of common sense conduct amongst like-minded people...which Hecate expanded on in a most thorough and personal way.
And that adults of normal intelligence can usually make up their own minds about most things.
~~~~~~~~
So....when do we get to see this guy's sock drawer!? Has he got a big unit?
Lance
WriterDom said:
Agreed, WD, that having a close, real life friend check out who you're considering getting naked with is always a fine and sensible idea.
A new friend visited me last weekend in the country, a place with no phone or cellular access in the middle of nowhere.
I made sure her roomate had our coordinates, including a number to call, before she got on the plane.
I think that good manners reveal themselves in the course of common sense conduct amongst like-minded people...which Hecate expanded on in a most thorough and personal way.
And that adults of normal intelligence can usually make up their own minds about most things.
~~~~~~~~
So....when do we get to see this guy's sock drawer!? Has he got a big unit?
Lance
WriterDom
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I've always seen it as the Dom's responsibility to make sure that things like safe calls are planned and followed through. That's for your protection as well as the subs.
Thank goodness for places like this where new submissives can at least learn about the proper precautions. I met a lot nillas from the web in my pre-bdsm days and some took some crazy chances.
I've only had good experiences. Am I being overly paranoid about lim's new friend? I don't know. He might be ok. But I saw two red flags. What's so unreasonable about trading pictures rather than demanding hers? And anyone who says "you have a lot to learn" or "You aren't a true submissive" or "don't try to top from the bottom" after two weeks of emails to a sub who admits she has a lot to learn tells me he has some serious issues.
Thank goodness for places like this where new submissives can at least learn about the proper precautions. I met a lot nillas from the web in my pre-bdsm days and some took some crazy chances.
I've only had good experiences. Am I being overly paranoid about lim's new friend? I don't know. He might be ok. But I saw two red flags. What's so unreasonable about trading pictures rather than demanding hers? And anyone who says "you have a lot to learn" or "You aren't a true submissive" or "don't try to top from the bottom" after two weeks of emails to a sub who admits she has a lot to learn tells me he has some serious issues.
Lancecastor
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Yeah...
...I think we've spent enough time on this. She's already handled it, and handled it well.
Lots of fish in the sea for her and everyone;
Lance
WriterDom said:
...I think we've spent enough time on this. She's already handled it, and handled it well.
Lots of fish in the sea for her and everyone;
Lance
lilminx
...
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Re: One bad apple.....
Lance, I think that sometimes you like to argue for argument's sake.
Where did you get the idea that I would *ever* post someone's profile name on a thread, or publicly share an e-mail with everyone here? WD suggested that I share it with one or two; not the entire BDSM board. If I were to do as WD suggested, it would be through PMs and/or e-mails. I posted a part of my response to this guy in my other thread, but they were my words to him. I don't see anything wrong with that.Lancecastor said:
Lance, I think that sometimes you like to argue for argument's sake.
Lancecastor
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Re: Re: One bad apple.....
Yes, I do sometimes simply enjoy a good argument.
No, you never said you intended to post His letters here.
But, somewhere out past asking a friend about a guy....just beyond reproducing parts of what was said on the Board for hundreds of complete strangers to read....is the slippery slope that ends with His privacy being breached.
Even if He is a total knobdorkidiotfool...I think at some point this dilemna is really just between You & Him.
And, as I said, I think you've already made a sound decision....and We've said plenty...more than plenty.... about it.
Doncha think?
But yes, sometimes I do enjoy a rip-roaring argument.
Just for fun.
With laughter afterwards.
And chocolate sauce.
With raspberry nipples.
And cream.
Lots of cream.
Lance
lilminx said:
Yes, I do sometimes simply enjoy a good argument.
No, you never said you intended to post His letters here.
But, somewhere out past asking a friend about a guy....just beyond reproducing parts of what was said on the Board for hundreds of complete strangers to read....is the slippery slope that ends with His privacy being breached.
Even if He is a total knobdorkidiotfool...I think at some point this dilemna is really just between You & Him.
And, as I said, I think you've already made a sound decision....and We've said plenty...more than plenty.... about it.
Doncha think?
But yes, sometimes I do enjoy a rip-roaring argument.
Just for fun.
With laughter afterwards.
And chocolate sauce.
With raspberry nipples.
And cream.
Lots of cream.
Lance
Lancecastor
Lit's Most Beloved Poster
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Naughty, knotty....
Hey, thanks Eb....coming from you, that's a real compliment, as you are really quite naughty indeed.
Hey....be a darling and pass those raspberries, won't you?
Lance
Ebonyfire said:
Hey, thanks Eb....coming from you, that's a real compliment, as you are really quite naughty indeed.
Hey....be a darling and pass those raspberries, won't you?
Lance
Lancecastor
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Whipped?
Whipped?
I said cream...lots of cream.
And sure, I'd love to er, spread it around.
Ever had cream from a giant salmon?
Lance
Ebonyfire said:
Whipped?
I said cream...lots of cream.
And sure, I'd love to er, spread it around.
Ever had cream from a giant salmon?
Lance
mskittykatt
Really Experienced
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didn't mean to get in the middle of that cream
someone who is nice to you and mean to the waiter is not a nice person.
you can tell a lot about a person by the way they treat people around them.
okay... maybe i did mean to get in the middle of the cream and raspberries
someone who is nice to you and mean to the waiter is not a nice person.
you can tell a lot about a person by the way they treat people around them.
okay... maybe i did mean to get in the middle of the cream and raspberries
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