Living through the history and evolution of the term Liberal it is a fact that the term has only recently become acceptable to American people. Those of us who remember building bomb shelters and the gullibility of oppression still fear the acceptance of liberal philosophy.
"Liberals!"
- Thread starter amicus
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Living through the history and evolution of the term Liberal it is a fact that the term has only recently become acceptable to American people. Those of us who remember building bomb shelters and the gullibility of oppression still fear the acceptance of liberal philosophy.
DesertPirate
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Actually the last 60 days have done more damage to the Constitution and the country than the last 235 years.
Your name calling childish tirades are really boring.
cloudy
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Actually, I said you were boring quite a long time ago. Try to come up with something new, won't you? I'm flattered, though, that you liked it enough to try and steal it.
*yawn*
As free as you are to voice your opinion, where are the neo-Nazis forcing their beliefs down every ones throats? By definition conservatives were here before liberals. Who is really forcing their opinions down people's throats. Your logic is Hegelian and very incorrect.
DesertPirate
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Someone buy her a new record and needle, that scratched track is kind of whiney.
Since you haven't had an original thought in years I'll stick to my own thoughts and creativity instead of imitating you and your dead horse.
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Stella_Omega
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I am a liberal because;
...I believe abortion is a matter of women's reproductive rights and not the premeditated taking of a human life.
...I believe that same sex relationships exist on an equal par with heretosexual relationships.
...I believe that the public should be educated by confiscating funds from all citizens to educate all children.
...I believe that health care should be funded by the whole citizenry.
...I believe that labor and business concerns must be balanced to be effective, and that unions are an important part of that balancing process.
...I believe that 'war' is only one option in defending individual rights and properties and the sovereignty of a nation-- and that wars such as this one are nothing more than banditry and empire-building.
...I believe the environment is of such huge importance to people that ignoring it will cause death to many, many people-- tantamount to murder.
...I believe that the current global warming is caused by man, possibly also normative climate change.
...I believe that 'rights' are the province of the whole as well as the individual.
...I believe that African Americans and Native Americans deserve compensation or affirmative action in many areas of public life.
...I believe abortion is a matter of women's reproductive rights and not the premeditated taking of a human life.
...I believe that same sex relationships exist on an equal par with heretosexual relationships.
...I believe that the public should be educated by confiscating funds from all citizens to educate all children.
...I believe that health care should be funded by the whole citizenry.
...I believe that labor and business concerns must be balanced to be effective, and that unions are an important part of that balancing process.
...I believe that 'war' is only one option in defending individual rights and properties and the sovereignty of a nation-- and that wars such as this one are nothing more than banditry and empire-building.
...I believe the environment is of such huge importance to people that ignoring it will cause death to many, many people-- tantamount to murder.
...I believe that the current global warming is caused by man, possibly also normative climate change.
...I believe that 'rights' are the province of the whole as well as the individual.
...I believe that African Americans and Native Americans deserve compensation or affirmative action in many areas of public life.
DesertPirate
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And you would be pretty much wrong on every count.
Wonder of anyone can guess where I make exceptiions
cloudy
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No, darling, I'm not. The latest example is the crusading against gay marriage that resulted in Prop 8 in California. That's only one example among many.
cloudy
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DesertPirate
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Except for the fact that I don't listen to Rush, that might make sense.
Of couse you haven't made sense since I got here so, oh well
Just a bitter little thing ...
Learn to read. Having Christian American values is not the same as being a Christian nation. That is your twist in logic, not ours.
We may not be a Christian nation. God will have to judge that. But, we the people think we are a Christian nation. Separation of church and state was never an issue until RABD's brought up the subject to cause confusion.
By the way, do you think the term RABD will stick?
Your symptoms of RABD can be cured. Just try to be open minded. It works and the cure is self-evident.
Sorry, can't do what you ask. My opinion is as good as yours even though my hat is not as good looking as yours.
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DesertPirate, you can use my new term anytime you like. It is RABD. How do you like it? Do you think it will stick?
oggbashan
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Exactly. Your "Self-evident" truths are opinions. You are quite entitled to have your own view, but not to but it forward as a received and accepted truth.
I may have an opinion that I hope people might agree with, but I won't say it is "self-evident" or an axiom. There are many statements that I might think are "self-evident" but unless they are accepted world-wide without controversy I can't claim they are.
Og
Your logic is all twisted. Conservatives have never championed homosexual marriage. It is your efforts to force your views down the throats of people in this country. Invade some other liberal world with your guff. Do you have any more examples?
We like Rush. You never criticize Rush's ideas only his person. Rush has a right to voice his opinion too. The symptoms of RABD can be cured but you must be willing to be logical.
SweetPrettyAss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPrettyAss
Probably because Liberals insist that people are not responsible for their own actions. There is always something like peer pressure and psychology and toilet training and bad schools and bad childhoods and anything else to blame their bad behavior on. Liberals also favor things like racial and gender quotas in hiring and social promotions in schools and school bussing and a lot of other things that are seen by sensible people as doing more harm than good.
This post by JBJ is an example of what I meant:
When I worked for government I had a case involving a violent alcoholic. He landed on my turf after he beat the crap out of mom and daughter. The cops tossed him in jail and the sweet judge tossed him out with little or no criminal consequences.
So the state went after him for the domestic violence and the child abuse, in civil court. My job was to assess the family and formulate a plan to end the alcohol abuse and violence. I put a plan together, submitted it to the court, and daddy was ordered to accept alcohol treatment and anger management therapy. During a 6 month period I sent daddy 6 referrals for treatment (no cost to him) and he used none of them. Plus he was jailed by the police for drunk driving with no valid drivers license.
The sweet, liberal judge blew it all off, and eventually closed his case. She indicated that the poor man was a victim of his own opposition & defiance of authority.
Liberals like this judge will look at a vicous criminal and decide that he is only that way because of something that happened when he was a child and that, since it was not really his fault, he can't be considered guilty. Most people say that an adult has freedom of choice and if they choose to be criminals, they should be locked up.
Originally Posted by SweetPrettyAss
Probably because Liberals insist that people are not responsible for their own actions. There is always something like peer pressure and psychology and toilet training and bad schools and bad childhoods and anything else to blame their bad behavior on. Liberals also favor things like racial and gender quotas in hiring and social promotions in schools and school bussing and a lot of other things that are seen by sensible people as doing more harm than good.
This post by JBJ is an example of what I meant:
When I worked for government I had a case involving a violent alcoholic. He landed on my turf after he beat the crap out of mom and daughter. The cops tossed him in jail and the sweet judge tossed him out with little or no criminal consequences.
So the state went after him for the domestic violence and the child abuse, in civil court. My job was to assess the family and formulate a plan to end the alcohol abuse and violence. I put a plan together, submitted it to the court, and daddy was ordered to accept alcohol treatment and anger management therapy. During a 6 month period I sent daddy 6 referrals for treatment (no cost to him) and he used none of them. Plus he was jailed by the police for drunk driving with no valid drivers license.
The sweet, liberal judge blew it all off, and eventually closed his case. She indicated that the poor man was a victim of his own opposition & defiance of authority.
Liberals like this judge will look at a vicous criminal and decide that he is only that way because of something that happened when he was a child and that, since it was not really his fault, he can't be considered guilty. Most people say that an adult has freedom of choice and if they choose to be criminals, they should be locked up.
SweetPrettyAss
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By your definition, almost everybody is a Liberal and anti-American. I certainly agree with the first three except that I never heard or read anybody using education as a verb. I think free public education is one of the best ideas of the 19th Century and it is getting better all the time. It has its drawbacks but it's usually better than private education.
amicus
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"...I think free public education is one of the best ideas of the 19th Century and it is getting better all the time. It has its drawbacks but it's usually better than private ..."
~~~
It is a free country, you may think whatever you wish. But perhaps some documentation that even some public education is superior to private would be useful and I have drawn the opposite conclusion.
I would ask you, however, to justify with reason, logic and rationality, the premise that supports taxing people without children to educate children of others.
While you are at it, excepting the 'General Welfare" clause of the Constitution, if you would please document the Constitutional authority to tax property to support and maintain your public schools.
Most will provide a 'pablum' (babyfood) justification that education is valuable to all and should be provided at any cost, but I trust you are more astute than that.
Amicus...
~~~
It is a free country, you may think whatever you wish. But perhaps some documentation that even some public education is superior to private would be useful and I have drawn the opposite conclusion.
I would ask you, however, to justify with reason, logic and rationality, the premise that supports taxing people without children to educate children of others.
While you are at it, excepting the 'General Welfare" clause of the Constitution, if you would please document the Constitutional authority to tax property to support and maintain your public schools.
Most will provide a 'pablum' (babyfood) justification that education is valuable to all and should be provided at any cost, but I trust you are more astute than that.
Amicus...
SweetPrettyAss
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I think free public education is one of the best ideas of the 19th Century and it is getting better all the time. It has its drawbacks but it's usually better than private ..."
~~~
It is hard to prove something so subjective but how about this:
Private elementary and high schools usually have some kind of religious or political agenda and time spent on this is time not spent on education.
Private schools are occupied mostly by one class of people - all Catholics or all Baptists, etc. Private prep schools are mostly attended by scions of the very rich. There is not the diversity as there is in a public school. Diversity is overrated but it is a plus.
Compare the literacy rate now with the literacy rate of about 160 years ago when schools were not free. I think even you would agree that a literate population is one that will know their rights and fight for them.
Probably the same reason that people who don't drive are taxed to pay for streets and roads or that people living in New York are taxed to pay for rescue operations in New Orleans or many other ways that taxpayers don't receive any direct benefit. I have no children but I received the benefits of public education for K through 12th grade and for four years of college. Now I am paying for the schooling of others and I don't mind. I would rather not be surrounded by illiterates who can't read instructional manuals or street signs or newspapers.
What does the US Constitution have to do with it? Schools are supposed to be run by state and local governments.
Now I will ask you one. Excepting the Bill of Rights, please document the reasons that the government is not allowed to lock up everybody who disagrees with them. The answer is that there are no other reasons. The Bill of Rights is the citizens' guarantee of personal liberty, just as the General Welfare Clause is the authority for governments to do things that promote the general welfare, such as affordable education for all.
I know what pablum is. The best reason that I can think of is that an educated population is the best defense against totalitarianism. Slaves were always kept illiterate so they would be less able to get together and plot against their masters.
Generally speaking, people who can read driving manuals make better drivers. People who can read lawbooks make better lawyers. People who can read medical journals make better doctors. If that's just another way of saying that education is a valuable asset for a nation, then so be it.
~~~
It is hard to prove something so subjective but how about this:
Private elementary and high schools usually have some kind of religious or political agenda and time spent on this is time not spent on education.
Private schools are occupied mostly by one class of people - all Catholics or all Baptists, etc. Private prep schools are mostly attended by scions of the very rich. There is not the diversity as there is in a public school. Diversity is overrated but it is a plus.
Compare the literacy rate now with the literacy rate of about 160 years ago when schools were not free. I think even you would agree that a literate population is one that will know their rights and fight for them.
Probably the same reason that people who don't drive are taxed to pay for streets and roads or that people living in New York are taxed to pay for rescue operations in New Orleans or many other ways that taxpayers don't receive any direct benefit. I have no children but I received the benefits of public education for K through 12th grade and for four years of college. Now I am paying for the schooling of others and I don't mind. I would rather not be surrounded by illiterates who can't read instructional manuals or street signs or newspapers.
What does the US Constitution have to do with it? Schools are supposed to be run by state and local governments.
Now I will ask you one. Excepting the Bill of Rights, please document the reasons that the government is not allowed to lock up everybody who disagrees with them. The answer is that there are no other reasons. The Bill of Rights is the citizens' guarantee of personal liberty, just as the General Welfare Clause is the authority for governments to do things that promote the general welfare, such as affordable education for all.
I know what pablum is. The best reason that I can think of is that an educated population is the best defense against totalitarianism. Slaves were always kept illiterate so they would be less able to get together and plot against their masters.
Generally speaking, people who can read driving manuals make better drivers. People who can read lawbooks make better lawyers. People who can read medical journals make better doctors. If that's just another way of saying that education is a valuable asset for a nation, then so be it.
Boxlicker101
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Besides that, if people are illiterate, how can they read my dirty stories?
Liar
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How?
What signed laws, what jucidiary acts, what policy decicions and what executive orders have done what damage to what part of the Consitution and how?
Do tell. But please, be specific.
DesertPirate
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Besides that, if people are illiterate, how can they read my dirty stories?
Now that is an important consideration!
amicus
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SPA...
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Taubman_Center/polls/PrivSchParents.html
5) the most important factors in decisions to send their children to private schools were teacher quality (90 percent), the personal attention their child receives (89 percent), the child's safety (86 percent), the overall academic reputation of the school (84 percent), and the school's responsiveness to parents and students (83 percent)
Why Children Are Sent to Private Schools (This portion is interesting)
http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/studies/privateschools/
http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2006461
~~~
You will find in one of the links that about half of parents choose religious schools, the other half do so for a variety of reasons.
Your prejudice against wealth is noted; but even the illiterate merchant and businessman chose to educate his children in a private rather than a public system.
Diversity for the sake of diversity is meaningless and if anything, tends to lower the common denominator and the quality of education as any public school teacher will attest to.
That is all the time I have at the moment to document my opposition to your thesis and while I appreciate your effort, in large part, all you have done is to present your opinions.
In a democracy, those who attain power often impose well meant changes that seldom pan out. In my opinion, public education is one of those, 'experiments' that has failed miserably in the United States.
Progressive activism is not a new thing, but remember always, government functions by the use of police power. The more you turn to force to impose your well intentioned visions, the more you corrupt the concept of individual liberty and freedom.
Education is a fine thing, independently chosen and pursued. Indoctrination in social and politcal correctness, leads to oppression wherever it has been tried.
Yoiu know full well that grades are already inflated in public schools and that in many urban areas less than half graduate.
Amicus...
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Taubman_Center/polls/PrivSchParents.html
5) the most important factors in decisions to send their children to private schools were teacher quality (90 percent), the personal attention their child receives (89 percent), the child's safety (86 percent), the overall academic reputation of the school (84 percent), and the school's responsiveness to parents and students (83 percent)
Why Children Are Sent to Private Schools (This portion is interesting)
http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/studies/privateschools/
http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2006461
~~~
You will find in one of the links that about half of parents choose religious schools, the other half do so for a variety of reasons.
Your prejudice against wealth is noted; but even the illiterate merchant and businessman chose to educate his children in a private rather than a public system.
Diversity for the sake of diversity is meaningless and if anything, tends to lower the common denominator and the quality of education as any public school teacher will attest to.
That is all the time I have at the moment to document my opposition to your thesis and while I appreciate your effort, in large part, all you have done is to present your opinions.
In a democracy, those who attain power often impose well meant changes that seldom pan out. In my opinion, public education is one of those, 'experiments' that has failed miserably in the United States.
Progressive activism is not a new thing, but remember always, government functions by the use of police power. The more you turn to force to impose your well intentioned visions, the more you corrupt the concept of individual liberty and freedom.
Education is a fine thing, independently chosen and pursued. Indoctrination in social and politcal correctness, leads to oppression wherever it has been tried.
Yoiu know full well that grades are already inflated in public schools and that in many urban areas less than half graduate.
Amicus...
