Let's Talk Libya

[sr71plt]

You mean they give haircuts?

 

[JackLuis]

The Cost of Libyan Freedom

http://fromtheleft.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/gasprices.jpg?w=347&h=387

Lybia is not the only one who's revolting here.

 

[sr71plt]

You know when Europeans see those American prices, they instantly think of Americans as whiners.

 

[trysail]

Muammar ain't fuckin' around. This is serious shit. He is fighting for his life and is not going to go quietly.

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2011/03/09/oil_wide.jpg?t=1299688865&s=4​

...[ government ] forces carried out air and artillery strikes on central oil facilities as the government posted a 500,000 dinar ($407,000) reward for anyone who arrests the head of the rebel leadership council...

...The Sidra and Ras Lanuf ports are two of the country’s six export terminals, according to the U.S. Department of Energy. Ras Lanuf has a tanker terminal that has exported 200,000 barrels a day, as well as Libya’s biggest refinery, with a capacity of 220,000 barrels a day, 60 percent of the country’s total, according to the International Energy Agency.

The Sidra terminal exported 450,000 barrels a day as recently as January, according to the IEA. Together, the two ports account for 43 percent of exports in January, according to the IEA

Ras Lanuf has been under sporadic air and artillery bombardment since it was seized by the insurgents last week. Several people were injured in airstrikes yesterday and the city’s water supply was cut off after storage tanks were bombed, Mohamed el Megaryef, a resident of the city, said by phone.

The Ras Lanuf refinery was shut and its employees fled because of the fighting, an official from the Libyan Emirates Oil Refining Co. said today. He spoke before reports of a raid on the facility and calls to his office later weren’t answered....


more...
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=a9HYBLwvXj0E

 

[voluptuary_manque]

If the UN does vote in a 'no-fly' zone over Libya, it will make a tremendous difference. I wonder what the odds are that the French will send in the Foreign Legion . . .

 

[sr71plt]

If the UN does vote in a 'no-fly' zone over Libya, it will make a tremendous difference.

With the UN, especially, declaring and enforcing are two entirely different issues. Any information on enforcing such a declaration. Other than the French Foreign Legion?

 

[voluptuary_manque]

With the UN, especially, declaring and enforcing are two entirely different issues. Any information on enforcing such a declaration. Other than the French Foreign Legion?

There is a U.S. carrier within striking distance but the word from Gates is that to enforce a 'no-fly' zone, more would be needed. Like that's a big deal given the amount of U.S. airpower in Italy, Iraq, Bahrain, etc.

And how much of the Libyan air force could be erased by RPV's is an interesting question.

 

[oggbashan]

A quote on BBC news tonight - to enforce an effective no-fly zone over Libya for long enough to make a difference could cost $1.5 billion.

From whom does the US intend to borrow $1.5 billion?

Og

 

[oggbashan]

http://fromtheleft.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/gasprices.jpg?w=347&h=387

Lybia is not the only one who's revolting here.

I've just done some calculations.

My local price for unleaded petrol (gas) is $7.88 for a US gallon and will rise because of tax increases on 1 April to over $8.00 even if oil prices remain static.

Og

 

[Handley_Page]

You know when Europeans see those American prices, they instantly think of Americans as whiners.

How very true. You guys get it too cheap!

 

[trysail]

As you are well aware, the U.S. and Britain maintained a "no-fly" zone over Iraq for ten (10) years. Maintaining it took a very underappreciated toll in equipment, maintenance, funding, patience, manpower and focus. By the end of the ten years, our participating military personnel had "had had it up to here." The U.S. population was utterly oblivious to the wear and tear and daily grind ( and risk ) those aviators and their support infrastructure were enduring.

 

[sr71plt]

There is a U.S. carrier within striking distance but the word from Gates is that to enforce a 'no-fly' zone, more would be needed. Like that's a big deal given the amount of U.S. airpower in Italy, Iraq, Bahrain, etc.

And how much of the Libyan air force could be erased by RPV's is an interesting question.

I was afraid that someone would suggest that the U.S. was going to enforce it.

 

[sr71plt]

As you are well aware, the U.S. and Britain maintained a "no-fly" zone over Iraq for ten (10) years. Maintaining it took a very underappreciated toll in equipment, maintenance, funding, patience, manpower and focus. By the end of the ten years, our participating military personnel had "had had it up to here." The U.S. population was utterly oblivious to the wear and tear and daily grind ( and risk ) those aviators and their support infrastructure were enduring.

Yep, this it true.

Even in intell meetings we had to remind folks that there was no interlude between the two Iraq actions. The British and U.S. planes bombed something every day--and it wasn't cheap.

 

[Loring2]

A quote on BBC news tonight - to enforce an effective no-fly zone over Libya for long enough to make a difference could cost $1.5 billion.

From whom does the US intend to borrow $1.5 billion?

Og

Damn good question Ogg.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Believe me I wasn't suggesting the U.S. do it. After all, it's the UK and the Europeans who are pushing the 'no-fly' resolution through the UN. If they want to pay the U.S. to enforce it, that's one thing but if they're looking for a volunteer I say we take one step backwards.

 

[JackLuis]

Considering that most of Libya's oil goes to Europe, perhaps the EU should take up the burden. after all we're supporting the Taliban and the Afghan's.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Sounds good to me.

 

[TE999]

In actuality, no one really gives two shits whether K-Daffy wins or loses as long as the oil keeps flowing. Achieving an effective no-fly zone would be difficult and expensive...the UN can't do it, we can't afford it, neither can Europe. That's just what the western world needs anyway; the 'invasion' of another Muslim nation by 'infidels'. That oughta guarantee everyone a continuing supply of oil.

 

[JackLuis]

Here's a thought, the EU could hire the Egyptian Army to passify Libya and set up an election for Constitutional Assembly.

We're paying them billions and have been for years. Where's their gratitude?

 

[oggbashan]

Here's a thought, the EU could hire the Egyptian Army to passify Libya and set up an election for Constitutional Assembly.

We're paying them billions and have been for years. Where's their gratitude?

We could pay the rebels to hire efficient African mercenaries (or to outbid Gaddafi for their services). Only mercenaries get killed and the Libyians could have their future government decided by the victors.

It didn't work in England when we paid the Danes to leave us alone. It probably won't work in Libya either but since one side is buying mercenaries, why not both?

Og

 

[voluptuary_manque]

We could pay the rebels to hire efficient African mercenaries (or to outbid Gaddafi for their services). Only mercenaries get killed and the Libyians could have their future government decided by the victors.

It didn't work in England when we paid the Danes to leave us alone. It probably won't work in Libya either but since one side is buying mercenaries, why not both?

Og

The problem would be in finding efficient African mercenaries, unless there are a bunch of SAA veterans hanging around the unemployment lines.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Hmmmmmmmmm . . .

 

[trysail]

Hmmmmmmmmm . . .

Italy has its nuts in a vice. Zugzwang.

 

[Pure]

republicans

republican hopefuls [more likely presidential candidates] generally favor more involvement and going ahead with no fly zone.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...ibya_n_833177.html#s250997&title=Sarah_Palin_

 

[JackLuis]

republican hopefuls [more likely presidential candidates] generally favor more involvement and going ahead with no fly zone.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...ibya_n_833177.html#s250997&title=Sarah_Palin_

Sign them up and send them over to help the poor Libyans. Sarah know how to shoot as well as the rebels.