Lets put our head together and reform the welfare system

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

I think for the most part we can all agree in it's present states it is very flawed and probably abused by close to 60%-70% of the people on it.

Welfare does serve a fairly descent and reasonable cuase for those who are in need of. On the other hand for those who abuse it, welfare serves as a burden fo the tax payer.

Waht are some ideas you have for welfare reform? Post a few and discuss, i'll come back and post a few for discussion as well.

Lets discuss this amicably.

 

[mig]

Good idea.

Then,when you've sorted yours,you can come over and sort ours.

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Good idea.

Then,when you've sorted yours,you can come over and sort ours.

maybe if we work together we can sort them out together

 

[lovetoread]

It will never happen.

The welfare system will be the same when the kids of the kids already on it grow up.

What needs to be done isnt pretty and no person wanting to get re-elected will ever put their neck out to get it done.

Could you imagine the outrage and attacks that this lone person would get if they stood up and told the people of the US,that the only way to fix welfare is to get rid of it?

Instead of a check every month,give free childcare and a college education.

Instead of just getting the money to buy groceries themselves, have a store where the food is already there <no junk stuff,just good healthy food> and they just pick it up and take it home.

Have a place to live. One for men and one for women and children,but unless you are disabled,you have to work to keep the place up or you cannot live there.

Free handouts will never help anyone get anywhere in this life.

 

[Chantal Marchon]

hmmmm

Please keep in mind that some of the people on welfare pay taxes too.

The biggest problem with our systems is overworked case managers who have about 300 cases a piece. It is very hard for them to properly supervise the citizens that ask for help or give them extra attention when they need it.

The other big problem isn't the people enrolled in welfare, it is the organizations that accept medicaid and food stamps that overcharge for their services, make up false charges and commit other sorts of fraud.

The income restrictions for help are so low that it is nearly impossible to live within these restrictions, a family of three should not make over $1200 a month to quality for assistance. But if they receive even small moentary gifts from family they are supposed to report it and risk getting their assistance cut.

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Re: hmmmm

Please keep in mind that some of the people on welfare pay taxes too.

Please excuse me for a few moments while i laugh my ass off

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sorry about that


ok all better now, um, welfare recievers aren't really paying a tax as they have not worked to get thier money.

 

[Chantal Marchon]

There is currently a very long waiting list for public housing assistance in our state. To say that women and children should be housed seperately from men begs the question, what about married couples?

People do not just sign up for welfare because they want to live off the government, they do it because they have no choice.

Health care in this country is not free, and it never will be, doctors do not want to make the kind of money that governments would pay them. Apartments have to pay someone for the upkeep and food does not just come packaged to locations as if by magic. Someon has to be paid to ship it, manufacture it and mind the shelves.

You are not just allowed to purchase anything you want with food stamps there are rules.

Pray that you never lose your job and health insurance in a bad economy and not be able to find a new job for months- It happens. Then have a sick child that has to go to the hospital.

When you can barely make ends meet a huge medical bill is enough to crush most people.

 

[sabbathstorm]

Re: Re: hmmmm

Please excuse me for a few moments while i laugh my ass off

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sorry about that


ok all better now, um, welfare recievers aren't really paying a tax as they have not worked to get thier money.

Sorry but in some instances, people on assistance are indeed paying taxes. I worked in the department for close to two years and I've seen people who work and pay taxes but still can't make ends meet. It's hard to support a family on a minimum wage job if you have no outside help.

 

[Chantal Marchon]

Wel fare recipients that pay taxes

I worked full time as did my husband but we did not have insurance when our daughter was born. The bills came out to well over $11,000 by the end of the pregnancy.

Without medicaid to help with the medical bills, I would not have been able to get the proper medical care I needed for my pregnancy or I would still be paying the hospital until she was 10.

I have paid alot of taxes over the years and I don't resent the medicare/medicaid taxes one bit.

 

[bored1]

I think for the most part we can all agree in it's present states it is very flawed and probably abused by close to 60%-70% of the people on it.

Welfare does serve a fairly descent and reasonable cuase for those who are in need of. On the other hand for those who abuse it, welfare serves as a burden fo the tax payer.

Waht are some ideas you have for welfare reform? Post a few and discuss, i'll come back and post a few for discussion as well.

Lets discuss this amicably.

Some of the changes made to the system in 1996 were a good start,and a good many people have moved off welfare. The question is how do you train so many people who have few skills or how do you instill a solid work ethic?Why not give tax exemptions to companys that would be willing to locate in poor areas,Instead these companys move overseas. Pay a fair wage,provide for a limited time xtra resources for these individuals like day care or health coverage. I would rather see companys get the breaks than see entry level jobs move out of the country.The saying "You are a product of your enviroment"is true if you are born into a welfare system chances are you will stay in that system. It will take someone willing to take the heat to make the changes nescessary,Unfortunately innovative ideas are shot down before being given a chance.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Do what you always did,get what you always got.

 

[lovetoread]

There is currently a very long waiting list for public housing assistance in our state. To say that women and children should be housed seperately from men begs the question, what about married couples?

If you are on welfare it should be for a short time until you are back on your feet. If you are not having sex,then there is less chance of getting pregnant while on welfare,making your situation worse. And the housing I was talking about would be dormitory type,not apartments nor houses.

People do not just sign up for welfare because they want to live off the government, they do it because they have no choice.

I beg to differ, Maybe its just being from the south,but when I was a teen, the popular thing was to get pregnant so that you can get on welfare and not have to work. That was a choice not a have to. When its a have to situation,then you get your butt in gear and get out of it. School,3 jobs,whatever is necessary.

Health care in this country is not free, and it never will be, doctors do not want to make the kind of money that governments would pay them. Apartments have to pay someone for the upkeep and food does not just come packaged to locations as if by magic. Someon has to be paid to ship it, manufacture it and mind the shelves.

Medicaid should not be touched,but have you ever been on it? I have been and that was the worse I have ever been treated. Just because you have medicaid does not mean you will get the treatment you need. As for the rest,those were the ideas that Todd asked for in the beginning of this thread. The payment of all of that would be a whole lot less than the welfare system now.

You are not just allowed to purchase anything you want with food stamps there are rules.

You are allowed to buy anything that is food related. Including deli foods and such things. That is the only restriction regarding food.

Pray that you never lose your job and health insurance in a bad economy and not be able to find a new job for months- It happens. Then have a sick child that has to go to the hospital.

When you can barely make ends meet a huge medical bill is enough to crush most people.

My ex husband got hurt on the job. We had no money coming in for 3 months. We had no help at all. His hospital bill alone was over $100,000 just from the initial injury. We paid no bills except for the essentials for over a year. We didnt go on welfare nor would the thought ever cross our minds. You work your butt off with 2,3 or more jobs till you are on your feet again. Welfare should be a help not a lifestyle.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

New York City

Implemented a new Automated system to help with their welfare system while Guiliani was mayor. The system was based one of the several biological based identification verification systems. I don't remember if it was automated fingerprint scans or something more elaborate.

The welfare number of people claiming welfare dropped precipitously almost overnight. As I recall, it was almost a 50% drop (don't remember exactly).

There was one woman who didn't get the message or didn't understand the ramifications of having to provide a validation each time she collected . She was found to be collecting welfare with seven different ID's and, upon a little research, was found to be defrauding the Government out of a significant amount of money.

I don't begrudge helping people that need to be helped. I like the idea of setting up a framework for people to help themselves. I really like this first step of ridding fraud from the system and hope that more people/Cities/States use these biological identification verification systems. I think the critical part of the system was provided by a Canadian company.... out west I think.

 

[Chantal Marchon]

bio ID

That is a really good idea- tracking people who are actually applying for help would cut down on fraud and people getting it illegally.

Our state just switched from paper stamps that were easy to abuse to a debit card. There are also limits to the length of time that one can get welfare assistance. I believe that is is only for two years max. (doesn't include food stamps or medicaid)

The other problem with tracking who is actually eligible is verifying how much $$ people actually make or get. When people deal with cash, its hard to know.

The government needs a better way to verify that. It would not be easy though.

 

[sabbathstorm]

I'd be interested to hear some opinions/information on the tracking system that was recently put into operation in Ontario. Apparently the cost was in the low millions but saved more than twice that amount. I haven't been able to find many details on how this worked but I'd love to know. There is talk of implementing this system in this region in the very near future.

I know one problematic area is people being "paid under the table". This problem extends into many other areas as well: employment insurance, canada pension, etc. I highly doubt there will ever be a way to combat that.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

People do not just sign up for welfare because they want to live off the government, they do it because they have no choice.

I beg to differ, Maybe its just being from the south,but when I was a teen, the popular thing was to get pregnant so that you can get on welfare and not have to work. That was a choice not a have to. When its a have to situation,then you get your butt in gear and get out of it. School,3 jobs,whatever is necessary.

I have a comment about this... though it's not factual, but it's certainly illustrative. My parents live in the coastal south. At one time a few years ago there was a young lady working in one of the stores my father frequents. She was working in the store part time and going to college part time with the hopes of becoming an attorney.

He admired her for her effort (He worked his way through one of the Ivy league schools with help from the GI Bill) and they became friends. He was curious about the difficulties she had to face and overcome to meet her goal. She was proud. Now and then she'd sink into a depression and wonder why she was going through all the hard work and the deprevation. She'd say "sometimes I'd like to be like my friends. Every one of them laughs at me for what I'm doing and going through. They say.. 'all you have to do is have three babies and the government gives you all the money you need and a place to live and you don't have to work, why are you putting yourself through all that?'".

I'd be happy just eliminating the fraud.

I think that the welfare reform of 1996 went a long way towards elminating this situation that I described, but I'm not entirely sure. I don't spend too much time thinking about it.

 

[Thumper]

...'all you have to do is have three babies and the government gives you all the money you need and a place to live and you don't have to work, why are you putting yourself through all that?'".

I'd be happy just eliminating the fraud.

Households with more than two children account for slightly less than 2% of the toatl families receiving aid.

Fraud runs at around 0.4%

The demographics of those receiving aid would surprise you...daughter posted them somewhere on the BB previously.

 

[claude_moveml]

I believe the government should provide free basic food, basic accomodation, healthcare and education. The people that then want more, like television, music, internet, a nice big house in a prime location, a car, holidays abroad, luxury food, recreational pharmaceuticals, etc, can then work to get money to pay for these things. Some people would be happy with nothing more than the basics, most however would want to work. And because they aren't pressured for money people would find it easier to donate more time to their education, or their family, or the other things in life that actually accomplish something. Perhaps an amount of community service should be included, so that people aren't living completely off the state, and people who want to work can buy their way out of some (not all) of it.

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you - the government should serve the people, not the other way around, human dignity is worth more than any amount of money.

And there are ways of paying for it - environmental taxation, a levy on international money dealing, top rate income tax on very high earners (over $300000 per year say), etc.

 

[Tim1]

no thanks

I believe the government should provide free basic food, basic accomodation, healthcare and education. The people that then want more, like television, music, internet, a nice big house in a prime location, a car, holidays abroad, luxury food, recreational pharmaceuticals, etc, can then work to get money to pay for these things. Some people would be happy with nothing more than the basics, most however would want to work. And because they aren't pressured for money people would find it easier to donate more time to their education, or their family, or the other things in life that actually accomplish something. Perhaps an amount of community service should be included, so that people aren't living completely off the state, and people who want to work can buy their way out of some (not all) of it.

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you - the government should serve the people, not the other way around, human dignity is worth more than any amount of money.



And there are ways of paying for it - environmental taxation, a levy on international money dealing, top rate income tax on very high earners (over $300000 per year say), etc.

Aren't those people that your talking about "Top rate taxing" already paying for about 75% or more of the total taxes collected?

The Govt. doesn't owe you. And I sure don't want to pay MORE taxes so that some lazy ass would be happy living in Minimal housing and eating 3 squares a day.

I won'T speak about Canada, but the last time I looked the good ol USA wasn't about hand outs. It was about finding a way to your dream. Now those who need assistance is a whole different story. They need help and can get it. But if I thought my Govt. owed me a place to live and the like, I'd pull up roots and go someplace where people can find the American dream.

Oh wait i'm already here. Unless your NOT able to care for yourself or have no means to manage ...Get off the couch and realize what millions have over 100's of years. You get out if this life what you put in, and it's not MY resposibility to make sure you don't have to raise a finger to help yourself.

Or is it?.......

 

[Calamity Jane]

Todd... people receiving public assistance do, in fact, pay taxes. My children have been on medicaid, no other health insurance was available to us at the time. I paid over $20,000 in taxes that year.

 

[claude_moveml]

Tim1:

So you're saying a better happier life is spent by slaving away for some corporation on minimal wage to make ends meet, than working part time for the government for your basic needs and spending the rest of the time doing things that you want to do, like work for money or educate yourself or whatever. This American dream of yours doesn't seem a happy place to me.

 

[Tim1]

HUH

Tim1:

So you're saying a better happier life is spent by slaving away for some corporation on minimal wage to make ends meet, than working part time for the government for your basic needs and spending the rest of the time doing things that you want to do, like work for money or educate yourself or whatever. This American dream of yours doesn't seem a happy place to me.

Your kidding right? Your damn right I think it's better to work for a corp. and if your good possibly rise above the worthless loafers.

The system you discribe failed remember? The Soviet Union comes to mind. People want self worth. And besides lets not forget that one guy who started with a garage shop operation and became the worlds richest man. I think his name was Bill Gates. I wonder if he would have been satisfied with "four hots and a cot"

But what the hell....It really does'nt matter anyway. I'm just a slave in a Corp. I got an education except when it come to my spelling. I wasn't interested I spose.

Other than being less stupid then the next guy, I got an education so I could secure a job where someday i was worth a little more then Min. wage. ....Hey if ya got some skills I'll look at your resume and see if we can get ya out of that Govt. house and food.

 

[Guest]

Re: HUH

Your kidding right? Your damn right I think it's better to work for a corp. and if your good possibly rise above the worthless loafers.

The system you discribe failed remember? The Soviet Union comes to mind. People want self worth. And besides lets not forget that one guy who started with a garage shop operation and became the worlds richest man. I think his name was Bill Gates. I wonder if he would have been satisfied with "four hots and a cot"

But what the hell....It really does'nt matter anyway. I'm just a slave in a Corp. I got an education except when it come to my spelling. I wasn't interested I spose.

Other than being less stupid then the next guy, I got an education so I could secure a job where someday i was worth a little more then Min. wage. ....Hey if ya got some skills I'll look at your resume and see if we can get ya out of that Govt. house and food.

The present system is all well and good, if you have sufficient funds to start with. If you have to work 40 hours a week to get enough money to survive you aren't going to be able to study, and thus you'll be stuck in minimum wage jobs your whole life. The welfare system should be changed so that people can get an education and get into higher earning jobs at the very least, if not the admittedly idealistic proposals I suggested.

And yes, I'll probably work for a corporation, although I'd rather work for a small business or for myself. I'm a utilitarian, all that greatest happiness of the greatest number business won't stop me enhancing my own happiness within the system as it stands.

And Bill Gates, I think one person having more money than a whole country is criminal and a crime against humanity.

 

[bored1]

I believe the government should provide free basic food, basic accomodation, healthcare and education. The people that then want more, like television, music, internet, a nice big house in a prime location, a car, holidays abroad, luxury food, recreational pharmaceuticals, etc, can then work to get money to pay for these things. Some people would be happy with nothing more than the basics, most however would want to work. And because they aren't pressured for money people would find it easier to donate more time to their education, or their family, or the other things in life that actually accomplish something. Perhaps an amount of community service should be included, so that people aren't living completely off the state, and people who want to work can buy their way out of some (not all) of it.

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you - the government should serve the people, not the other way around, human dignity is worth more than any amount of money.

And there are ways of paying for it - environmental taxation, a levy on international money dealing, top rate income tax on very high earners (over $300000 per year say), etc.

The last time I checked governments dont produce ANYTHING other than services. The government TAXES the people then spends it on various programs. So I quess if we all just sent the government our checks they could redistribute it back to us.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Socialism doesnt work,never has never will especially in America--

 

[SINthysist]

Solution?

Yeah, easy. Scrap it!

Force people to realize that they need to form strong, social bonds in thier lives. Return the emphasis to family, community, church and the mores and customs of our nation, the former "Great Melting Pot." Charity is there, in so many ways. Historically, it was one of our stong points, why we rebuilt those whom attacked us and our way of life.

From time to time, if a particular area is bad enough off, let the government issue grants, with no strings attached, to those charities which can do the most good. If worse comes to worse, find a private company that can provide services. In a worst case scenario, to the State in which the situation exists. But no more.

The government is not there to provide womb to the tomb security. It is to provide us with opportunity.

And Freedom!

 

[SweetBrat73]

Another limit on food stamps is that you can't buy any hot foods with them...weather they are in the deli or not of a store.

And the thing about working 2 or 3 jobs to get by...well then somebody had better bring in the jobs to an area. I've been on welfare before...and getting a job isn't that easy when there are none to be had...even fast food places around here don't hire very often due to the fact ppl who want anything have to keep their job there to try and survive. I guess you could consider moving IF you had the money to move on

I've also worked and paid taxes when recieving food stamps and medicare.

The only way you ppl who are bitching about welfare are ever going to get rid of it is to get more jobs out there. You'll still have the scum who don't want to work or won't even try to find a job, but that's really the only way to get rid of welfare. More jobs.

The big companies we had here moved out of the state. Hundreds of ppl lost their jobs. We had another company move in our area with alot of jobs to offer but it still isn't enough. Ppl are trying to get off of welfare...I think most of you only see the bad cases...but if you're in a depressed area it's really hard to do so. I tried for over 4 years to find a job and couldn't. I applied everywhere...fast food, house cleaning and such places, mail rooms, schools, convienent stores, stores like Wal-mart, ect...and didn't get a job. It's not because I'm uneducated either. I have a college education and still couldn't get work. There were times of the day I couldn't work, due to having children, being a single mother, and not having childcare available for certain hours. Things like that need to be taken into account. I would have gladly worked 2 or more jobs for a while to be able to get out of the state I was in, but there are alot of ppl out there looking for jobs too. More jobs are the key.

I don't know about where you ppl live but here the families have to work to keep their money checks too. They are required to work 20 to 30 hours a week where ever the office places you. I've worked in a greenhouse, courthouse, city building, the water department, and various other places. I gained alot of good experience through that.

When I did get a job(after I looked for one for years) I was so relieved! I loved working. Working and providing for your family makes a person feel good about themselves and gives them back their pride.

I do think the welfare system needs alot of work, but the only way to get rid of it is to bring jobs back to communities that need them. So figure out how to get jobs in your community. Big cities I think are the worst. I used to live in one and the jobs there were unbelieveable!!! Everybody was always hiring! There is no reason for a person to be on welfare if there is work. Hell McDonald's would hire on at $8.00 an hour, and that's easy work too.


Brat