Let's Hear It for Bill Gates

[neonlyte]

Bill Gates has announced he is stepping down from the day-to-day running of Microsoft to concentrate on giving away the estimated $30bn in Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. I mention this, first - because of argument on the Confusion over Property thread, about the re-distribution of wealth, and secondly, because I don't think the man (and woman along side him) who created Microsoft (to hell with the problems with Windows) has received enough recognition for his generosity in helping the disadvantaged.

If you had disposable wealth - would you give it all away as Gates intends?

 

[imalickin]

Bill Gates has announced he is stepping down from the day-to-day running of Microsoft to concentrate on giving away the estimated $30bn in Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. I mention this, first - because of argument on the Confusion over Property thread, about the re-distribution of wealth, and secondly, because I don't think the man (and woman along side him) who created Microsoft (to hell with the problems with Windows) has received enough recognition for his generosity in held the disadvantaged.

If you had disposable wealth - would you give it all away as Gates intends?

Yes, it would be a big ego boost plus the good feeling that is infused within you that you are helping people. If I didn't need it and I had already seen to my childrens future then why not help others? It is a good thing to do.

 

[neonlyte]

Yes, it would be a big ego boost plus the good feeling that is infused within you that you are helping people. If I didn't need it and I had already seen to my childrens future then why not help others? It is a good thing to do.

Both Bill and Melinda are on record as saying 'the kids get nothing'. They intend to give everything away arguing 'the kids' need to make their own way in the world, like everyone else. (Do they have kids?)

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Ya' can't take it with you.

Somehow I suspect that the recipients I would choose would be very different from those Gates will choose ( and most here would choose).

My first grantee: The Milton and Rose Friedman Foundation for the promotion of school choice. Blowing up the corrupt U.S. educational establishment (the "Blob") that continues to condemn millions of inner city children to the ignorance and hopelessness of one who has received a fourth-class education would be the greatest contribution Gates could make to improving the lives of those at the bottom end in my country.

Oh dear - I may have just set this thread off in a whole new direction! Oh well, it's a fun direction! Also, I suspect that even though I am a libertarian whacko, more than a few people here will not object to the preceeding paragraph.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Ya' can't take it with you.

Somehow I suspect that the recipients I would choose would be very different from those Gates will choose ( and most here would choose).

My first grantee: The Milton and Rose Friedman Foundation for the promotion of school choice. Blowing up the corrupt U.S. educational establishment (the "Blob") that continues to condemn millions of inner city children to the ignorance and hopelessness of one who has received a fourth-class education would be the greatest contribution Gates could make to improving the lives of those at the bottom end in my country.

Oh dear - I may have just set this thread off in a whole new direction! Oh well, it's a fun direction! Also, I suspect that even though I am a libertarian whacko, more than a few people here will not object to the preceeding paragraph.

no objections from me...

I think we all have our own "pet causes" we'd give to...

 

[Stella_Omega]

Ya' can't take it with you.

Somehow I suspect that the recipients I would choose would be very different from those Gates will choose ( and most here would choose).

My first grantee: The Milton and Rose Friedman Foundation for the promotion of school choice. Blowing up the corrupt U.S. educational establishment (the "Blob") that continues to condemn millions of inner city children to the ignorance and hopelessness of one who has received a fourth-class education would be the greatest contribution Gates could make to improving the lives of those at the bottom end in my country.

Oh dear - I may have just set this thread off in a whole new direction! Oh well, it's a fun direction! Also, I suspect that even though I am a libertarian whacko, more than a few people here will not object to the preceeding paragraph.

That's a wacko libertarian idea I will heartily endorse, Roxanne! And I'd pour a lot of my money into the building of school facilities as well.
The simplest way to upgrade a child's potential is to reduce classroom size.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

You know what i found somewhat amusing? It's not the states with the large cities and such that have the lowest rates of graduation and such.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

That's a wacko libertarian idea I will heartily endorse, Roxanne! And I'd pour a lot of my money into the building of school facilities as well.
The simplest way to upgrade a child's potential is to reduce classroom size.

Oh man, now I'm really in danger of dragging this thread off into the libertarian tall grass, but the evidence is not as clear cut as you would think on that, Stell. In countries that kick our butt education-wise they have much larger classes.

Jay Green writes:

The Class-Size Myth. Asking parents whether they would like smaller classes for their children is like asking whether they would like a personal cook. Everyone would say yes, and assume that “cook” was synonymous with “gourmet chef.” But if we have to hire a cook for all parents, they’re more likely to get the fry guy from the local burger joint — there just aren’t enough gourmet chefs to go around.

The same problem frustrates broad class-size-reduction mandates. Princeton economist Alan Krueger found that reducing class sizes in a small pilot program in Tennessee led to improved student achievement, but adoption of similar policies on a large scale has produced no benefits. When schools go on hiring binges to satisfy class-reduction mandates, they are forced to dip deep into the labor pool. Intuitively, one imagines that the reduction in teacher quality could offset the benefits of smaller classes. This is exactly what an evaluation by the Rand Corporation of California’s statewide effort to reduce class sizes found: Students in smaller classes experienced learning gains that were no greater than those of students in larger classes.

We have also tried class-size reduction on a national scale with no visible effect. (Much of the spending increases over the last several decades went to hiring more teachers.) The average student-to-teacher ratio dropped from 22.3 in 1970 to 16.1 in 2002, yet student achievement on the national level did not improve during this time. Not only has class-size reduction failed to produce improvements when attempted on a large scale, but reducing class size is a very expensive reform strategy. A one-third reduction in class size requires roughly a one-third increase in spending, because schools have to hire more teachers and build more classrooms.

(Jay Green is the author of EDUCATION MYTHS: What Special-Interest Groups Want YOU to BELIEVE About our SCHOOLS– AND WHY IT ISN'T SO )

I'm sorry, I should start a new thread, but I'm already f'ing off from work to much with all these posts.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Students in smaller classes experienced learning gains that were no greater than those of students in larger classes.

This doesn't surprise me... unless you can bring it down to 1:1 child-led instruction, you won't find results... it'll never happen...

and of course, those "results" were simply standardized tests... flawed method of assessment to begin with...

 

[neonlyte]

I don't mind this thread spinning sideways ( as long as you say Hi to Bill and Melinda) but are all you folk really advocating wealthy private individuals should fund your education system? Don't you live in the richest country in the world? Shouldn't Bill and Melinda's money go the poorest countries to help build their education and health services?

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I don't mind this thread spinning sideways ( as long as you say Hi to Bill and Melinda) but are all you folk really advocating wealthy private individuals should fund your education system? Don't you live in the richest country in the world? Shouldn't Bill and Melinda's money go the poorest countries to help build their education and health services?

True. They have enough to do some of each, however. Since I'm already into the tall grass I'll go the rest of the way by sharing something related to African aid that will no doubt cause many teeth to grind, but hopefully may generate some postive thoughts as well:

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html

SPIEGEL INTERVIEW WITH AFRICAN ECONOMICS EXPERT

"For God's Sake, Please Stop the Aid!"

The Kenyan economics expert James Shikwati, 35, says that aid to Africa does more harm than good. The avid proponent of globalization spoke with SPIEGEL about the disastrous effects of Western development policy in Africa, corrupt rulers, and the tendency to overstate the AIDS problem.

 

[matriarch]

Bill Gates has announced he is stepping down from the day-to-day running of Microsoft to concentrate on giving away the estimated $30bn in Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. I mention this, first - because of argument on the Confusion over Property thread, about the re-distribution of wealth, and secondly, because I don't think the man (and woman along side him) who created Microsoft (to hell with the problems with Windows) has received enough recognition for his generosity in helping the disadvantaged.

If you had disposable wealth - would you give it all away as Gates intends?

Most of it, yes.
What's the point of enormous wealth if you can't do something good with it??

Greed is a nasty, pervasive characteristic. It colours everything you do, and all your interactions with people.

But then, so does generosity.

I know which I'd choose.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't mind this thread spinning sideways ( as long as you say Hi to Bill and Melinda) but are all you folk really advocating wealthy private individuals should fund your education system? Don't you live in the richest country in the world? Shouldn't Bill and Melinda's money go the poorest countries to help build their education and health services?

I don't believe wealthy folks will fund anything for any length of time, and I would not count on their largesse. On the other hand, the government isn't showing a long track record either- and as public funding for PBS dwindles, it's the private foundations that have picked up a little of the slack.

Roxxanne, I have been present in public schoolrooms for fifteen years, courtesey of my kids. They have acheived a mediocre education, and that took me putting in many days of school assistance volunteering to get that much for them!
We have an unbeliveable discipline problem in our schools right now. We have gone from the draconian days of caning, to an over-permissive policy that allows one child to disrupt any group with no interference. I know my son would completely withdraw into himself, when the classrooms got chaotic. His grades suffered because other kids were disruptive. I was able to demand some form of policy, but it was not much.

I can tell you from my own observation, that no teacher will be at her best in a classroom of thrty kids. And even a poor teacher will be, at least, a little more effective, with a classroom of under twenty.

Forgive any incoherencies in this post! I'd better get back to work myself...

 

[Selena_Kitt]

We have gone from the draconian days of caning, to an over-permissive policy that allows one child to disrupt any group with no interference.

I'd take exception to this... I worked in a high school, for the assistant principle (the discipline office, essentially) and the "zero-tolerance" policy in schools nowadays is INSANE. Kids can't get away with ANYTHING anymore. They're suspended at the drop of a hat for the craziest, most ridiculous things.

 

[Stella_Omega]

This doesn't surprise me... unless you can bring it down to 1:1 child-led instruction, you won't find results... it'll never happen...

and of course, those "results" were simply standardized tests... flawed method of assessment to begin with...

Child-led? That won't work, unless you can remove TV, Playstation, and Blacksheep.com from the child's world. The only way child-led instruction is effective is if learning stuff is the most exciting thing in the kid's life.
That's why Montessori worked so well in Italy, and brings lesser results here in the US. Why should a toddler get excited about stacking blocks, when there is Power Rangers on TV?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'd take exception to this... I worked in a high school, for the assistant principle (the discipline office, essentially) and the "zero-tolerance" policy in schools nowadays is INSANE. Kids can't get away with ANYTHING anymore. They're suspended at the drop of a hat for the craziest, most ridiculous things.

yep.
And those same kids were never controlled during elementary school. It's stoopit.

 

[minsue]

I don't mind this thread spinning sideways ( as long as you say Hi to Bill and Melinda) but are all you folk really advocating wealthy private individuals should fund your education system? Don't you live in the richest country in the world? Shouldn't Bill and Melinda's money go the poorest countries to help build their education and health services?

I think I you.

 

[rgraham666]

I'd give most of it away and to educational charities. Most especially to ones dealing with kids who have learning disabilities.

And since someone already made this a political thread, most of the blame, in my opinion, for the system falling apart goes to the changes in tax structure that favour the very wealthy and the large corporations, severely limiting the funds available for education.

The fact that we're using the wrong paradigm for education isn't much help either. Our system is a production line manufacturing human resources suitable for employment. And like most production lines, it has no idea what to do with raw materials that don't fit in just so.

 

[imalickin]

yep.
And those same kids were never controlled during elementary school. It's stoopit.

And there in lies the problem...the parents, not all, not contolling their children. And if the school was to disipline the child, I'm sure the parents of those children would be the first to show up in the principles office and complain.

First and formost, the child must listen and be controlled by the parents. Without the parent(s) disipline at home there is no control in the classroom.

And if those parent knew the price they pay for the education of their children and those children were sent home whenever they disupted class then you could be sure the child would be disiplined at home. But because most parents think the "government" pays for education they just don't seem to care about their child causing a problem.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Child-led? That won't work, unless you can remove TV, Playstation, and Blacksheep.com from the child's world. The only way child-led instruction is effective is if learning stuff is the most exciting thing in the kid's life.

exactly!

 

[matriarch]

I'd give most of it away and to educational charities. Most especially to ones dealing with kids who have learning disabilities.

And since someone already made this a political thread, most of the blame, in my opinion, for the system falling apart goes to the changes in tax structure that favour the very wealthy and the large corporations, severely limiting the funds available for education.

The fact that we're using the wrong paradigm for education isn't much help either. Our system is a production line manufacturing human resources suitable for employment. And like most production lines, it has no idea what to do with raw materials that don't fit in just so.

Exactly!
Education is for LIFE, not WORK.
And until ALL education authorities, everywhere, realise this, the system will never change, no matter how much money and resources you push into it.

For education to work, children have to be enthused simply to learn. Anything and everything.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

"And since someone already made this a political thread . . .

What a boor that person must be!



(Guilty. For my punishment I will force myself to be nice to socialists for the rest of the day. )

 

[imalickin]

And since someone already made this a political thread, most of the blame, in my opinion, for the system falling apart goes to the changes in tax structure that favour the very wealthy and the large corporations, severely limiting the funds available for education.

I'm sorry I just have to take exception to this statement, not the part about the education system being screwed, the part about the tax structure.

First Coporations don't pay taxes, individuals pay taxes. Raise the taxes on the corporations and the price of the product they produce goes up, Economics 101.

Second the top 1% of the wealthiest individuals pay 30% of the taxes in the US.

 

[amicus]

neonlyte]Bill Gates has announced he is stepping down from the day-to-day running of Microsoft to concentrate on giving away the estimated $30bn in Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. I mention this, first - because of argument on the Confusion over Property thread, about the re-distribution of wealth, and secondly, because I don't think the man (and woman along side him) who created Microsoft (to hell with the problems with Windows) has received enough recognition for his generosity in helping the disadvantaged.

If you had disposable wealth - would you give it all away as Gates intends?

[/I]

~~~~~~~~~~

Were I a kinder gentler persona, I would take you quietly aside and patiently describe the workings of a free market place, capital and inheritance benefits.

But as it is, let me state, unequivocably that the above is the sickest, most stupid thing I have heard in ages and makes me think much less of Gates and Company to the extent I may never purchase another Microsoft item in my life.

Wealth of that nature should remain working capital, reinvested to expand the horizons of the industry. It should be made available as venture capital and used as R&D within the industry if possible.

It is the sick moral foundation of most who see charity as a boon, a benefit and a 'human' thing to do; it is not.

And the trouble with Foundation endowments is that they are usually administered by the same bleeding heart Liberals that support Charlie Rose on PBS and the corrupt national association for the arts, or some such damned thing.

I mourn that the industrial efficacy of Bill Gates has been sacrificed to the 'do-gooders' and the politically correct amoung the nuveau riche' who wish to buy their way into the sacrosant world of benevolent foundation grants.

Sad day for the future, sighs...


amicus...

 

[rgraham666]

Of course they do.

And in the late '50s, early '60s, when the corporations carried three to four times the tax burden they do now the economy was paralysed, literally paralysed, with expensive products beyond the reach of most consumers.