Let Obamacare fail....

[RobDownSouth]

https://townhall.com/columnists/ter...rap-and-tyranny-of-free-entitlements-n2357831

Keep squealing that healthcare should be restricted to those who can pay for it (technically, you're hiding behind the words of others advocating that), and wonder why libertarians never seem to accumulate more than four or five percent of the vote in elections.

Face it, Gumpster, America as a whole rejects your toxic ideology, no matter how loud you yell.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

How's the Hall of Fame voting going Throb?



You're the Hillary Clinton of the board. All of your polling/trolling tells you that you are a beloved member of the GB...



But the results are showing that the only person less liked than you is Luk. And that's the question that begs asking, why did all of the attack alts vote for you and not for your buddy???

 

[Gotham_Central]

I'm just curious, how many of you here have ever used -needed to rely on- the VA medical system? I have and do. Do you remember all those "veterans dying while waiting on care" stories? Or have you blotted them out for some reason?

Those men and women weren't "technically" denied care, their cases were just being reviewed. Ad Nauseum. Until they succumbed to their illness or some co-morbid condition. That is what single payer healthcare looks like; unionized, untouchable government employees with a high school education -maybe- deciding if you get the procedure you need. It is the best the federal government has been able to provide after nearly a century of time to get it right.

And you want in on this? You think, what, that "your guy" has a solution? Are you Stupid!? Wake up!

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Amen



There were a of of combat veterans in my maternal family. The stories are not pretty...

 

[BotanyBoy]

Face it, Gumpster, America as a whole rejects your toxic ideology, no matter how loud you yell.

People just like free shit and will vote for those who promise to rob others for them to provide said free shit.

The concepts of personal responsibility and liberty are not toxic, the USA is just full of degenerates.

 

[Gotham_Central]

People just like free shit and will vote for those who promise to rob others for them to provide said free shit.

The concepts of personal responsibility and liberty are not toxic, the USA is just full of degenerates.

The Great Society has succeeded in creating it's goal, a society of people willing to subsist on the efforts of their neighbors. In nature, we would call them parasites (symbiotes provide their host with something of value) but that would be cruel.

 

[RobDownSouth]

People just like free shit and will vote for those who promise to rob others for them to provide said free shit.

The concepts of personal responsibility and liberty are not toxic, the USA is just full of degenerates.

No one deserves to die because they lack access to healthcare.

 

[JohnnySavage]

I'm just curious, how many of you here have ever used -needed to rely on- the VA medical system? I have and do. Do you remember all those "veterans dying while waiting on care" stories? Or have you blotted them out for some reason?

Those men and women weren't "technically" denied care, their cases were just being reviewed. Ad Nauseum. Until they succumbed to their illness or some co-morbid condition. That is what single payer healthcare looks like; unionized, untouchable government employees with a high school education -maybe- deciding if you get the procedure you need. It is the best the federal government has been able to provide after nearly a century of time to get it right.

And you want in on this? You think, what, that "your guy" has a solution? Are you Stupid!? Wake up!

Thank the Sweet Baby Jebus that such things never happen under the for-profit system we have now!

 

[BotanyBoy]

No one deserves to die because they lack access to healthcare.

Noble feelz there but everyone dies access to HC or not.

If I made good choices and can afford better you shouldn't be able to take that from me because you don't feel it's fair. This is the USA where everyone should have to suffer the consequences of their life choices.

The USA is supposed to be land of the free....not the land of the nanny state....not Soviet America....not Marxist Europe.

 

[Gotham_Central]

No one deserves to die because they lack access to healthcare.

No one dies because they lack access to healthcare. Emergency Rooms are required -at least in my State- to help anyone who comes in. To sustain them, to keep them alive.

Now, who do you think pays for their lack of self sufficiency?

And don't say they didn't have choices. I promise you they had the same opportunities I did. Now, they may have made poor choices, choices that denied them that opportunity, but that is on them!

 

[BotanyBoy]

No one dies because they lack access to healthcare. Emergency Rooms are required -at least in my State- to help anyone who comes in. To sustain them, to keep them alive.

And that TERRIBLE version of socialized HC is what pressed this disaster in the first place.

SOMEBODY has to pay for that shit, it's more expensive, unfunded and arguably the most disastrous thing to come out of the Reagan administration next to the uber fail known as the war on drugs.

You can have government HC, and private HC next to each other...but they can't occupy the same space or all sorts of fuckery ensues.



What I don't understand is if it's so fucking brilliant why don't blue states do their own thing?

Why must HC be a federal issue at all?

 

[Que]

And that TERRIBLE version of socialized HC is what pressed this disaster in the first place.

SOMEBODY has to pay for that shit, it's more expensive and unfunded.

You can have government HC, and private HC next to each other...but they can't occupy the same space or all sorts of fuckery ensues.



What I don't understand is if it's so fucking brilliant why don't blue states do their own thing?

Why must HC be a federal issue at all?

California considered it. Someone showed the Democrats the basic math on the back of an envelope and they shut up about it.

 

[BotanyBoy]

California considered it.

You would think with all their shit talk the place would be an open borders to the planet with a full on upper middle class 1st world life package for any and all who step foot across our borders.

Maybe one day Sacramento will grow a pair and lead by example and show the rest of the country how to bring about such a wonderful utopia. Fully furnished custom 4/3's in gated communities with a pair of M BMW's out front, education, healthcare and pills for everybody!

Someone showed the Democrats the basic math on the back of an envelope and they shut up about it.

Oh that's no problem...just raise taxes however high they need to be to cover utopia, PROBLEM SOLVED!!

 

[Gotham_Central]

Why must HC be a federal issue at all?

It has to be Federal to ensure absolute governmental control of our lives. State level control can be too easily overturned/dismantled and our Progressive Masters can't risk that.

 

[RobDownSouth]

No one dies because they lack access to healthcare. Emergency Rooms are required -at least in my State- to help anyone who comes in. To sustain them, to keep them alive.

Now, who do you think pays for their lack of self sufficiency?

And don't say they didn't have choices. I promise you they had the same opportunities I did. Now, they may have made poor choices, choices that denied them that opportunity, but that is on them!

Yes, "they can go to teh emergency room!" is the rote conservative bumper sticker solution.

 

[Gotham_Central]

Yes, "they can go to teh emergency room!" is the rote conservative bumper sticker solution.

Do they die because Health Care is denied?

 

[ThreeInOne]

Wow, you guys really love living in your own bubble. You go from an understanding and very defensible position of government bureaucracy has complicated and usually made things worse. Of course ignoring that the system even before "Obamacare" needed a lot of work too and hence why we are where we are now, but I can forgive that because it's not the argument at hand. Then you bounce to this "us vs them" mentality that Democrats are moochers and they are not only the reasons for any problems in this world they also can't do basic math. It's childish and really makes me want to ignore anything you said. I wasn't going to post this, because I figure "hey! They like living in their own bubble so much, nothing I will say will change it and I'm not exactly going to get a debate from them", but fuck it, a little poke to your bubble from the outside world now and then is a good thing.

I find this stereotype of Democrats as takers and just want "free stuff" interesting, I know where it comes from. If your side tells you those guys aren't hard workers and they're out to take what you earned fair and square then you'll be more incline to never look to them for any solutions. They are all "parasites" and they spew "nonesense", but my side is full of the people with answers. I wish as a country we could move beyond parties, but Americans love teams so much, there's no hope for that. I could easily tell you that some of the hardest working and business minded people I've met in my life identify as Democrat and some of the biggest takers and freeloaders have identified as Republican, but that doesn't mean that all Democrats or Republicans are like that, it just means the world is complicated. It would be nice if we didn't just force people into what we assume they are from their label.

The topic at hand was letting Obamacare fail and I can't understand why any side would want this. If you didn't like ACA and thought it was a terrible thing how would letting it fail fix anything? It would just make the problem so much worse and then whatever you try to clean up later would just take so much more time and effort. It's a childish tactic from people that don't know anything about the why they dislike the ACA. I never understood the idea that it can't work, it's been working in states, Massachusetts had the system before Obamacare was law and sure it wasn't perfect, but you can't say it didn't work. Do people get sick differently in Massachusetts then than do in Tennessee?

I thought I understood why most people picked Trump. He spoke to what you wanted, you wanted a repeal and replacement of healthcare. Somebody that would come at it from a different angle than all the politicians we've had already. I get he has to rely on the House and Senate, but his plan is awful and is just a very stripped down version of what we have. They can't pass that, so "let it fail" is now the plan. That's what you voted for? Are any of you not frustrated with this lack of progress and lack of leadership? The republicans own all three branches of government and they can't get this passed, do they move onto tax reform or anything else they might agree on? No, Trump is forcing them to focus on this one issue that any polling will tell you Americans don't like the solution to. How can this make any of you happy?

 

[Hard_Rom]

HC in Canada is not free. Your taxes pay for it. No government bureaucrat makes decision if you get procedure. Government just pays the bills. Hospitals are non-profit but still build more and more facilities and wings. No-profit just means not paying out a dividend to share holders. Doctors still live well and drive nice cars. Hurt or sick just walk into emerge, a walk in clinic or go see your doctor without worrying about how to pay for it.

Could be better? Fucking right it could. Could be worse? Fucking right it could. A life threatening issue won't cost you your home. US hospitals may not deny saving your life but sure as shit your going to see a bill and have collectors after you if you don't or can't pay.

One of the things that convinced docs in early days was that all bills would be paid. Delinquent bills take a good chunk out of doctor and hospital incomes.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Has the "Death Panel" met yet?

I was just wondering who they killed in the last 7 years.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I find this stereotype of Democrats as takers and just want "free stuff" interesting, I know where it comes from. If your side tells you those guys aren't hard workers and they're out to take what you earned fair and square then you'll be more incline to never look to them for any solutions.

My "side" doesn't have to tell me anything, democrats telling me they are going to take my shit and tell me how I'm allowed to get more shit is all they need to keep doing to perpetuate that 'stereotype'.

The topic at hand was letting Obamacare fail and I can't understand why any side would want this. If you didn't like ACA and thought it was a terrible thing how would letting it fail fix anything?

Because it's a piece of shit and if congress doesn't do something it will fail.

So they had better do what they promised all their constituents or it's their ass, not Trumps.

The republicans own all three branches of government and they can't get this passed, do they move onto tax reform or anything else they might agree on? No, Trump is forcing them to focus on this one issue that any polling will tell you Americans don't like the solution to. How can this make any of you happy?

Because it's not the usual "Oh well congress is going to fuck everyone, let's just look the other way while they do it. " that "progressives" are so fond of.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Do they die because Health Care is denied?

Mortality rates vary by condition and state.

Are you attempting to redefine "health care" as "not dying"?

 

[Gotham_Central]

Mortality rates vary by condition and state.

Are you attempting to redefine "health care" as "not dying"?

No. Just pointing out the fallacy of your argument. Everyone has access to health care. So, people do not die because they don't have healthcare.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Deamonte Driver, a 12-year-old homeless child, died Sunday in a District hospital after an infection from a molar spread to his brain.

At the time he fell ill, his family's Medicaid coverage had lapsed. Even on the state plan, his mother said, the children lacked regular dental care and she had great difficulty finding a dentist. [The Washington Post, 3/3/07]


Researchers from Harvard Medical School say the lack of coverage can be tied to about 45,000 deaths a year in the United States -- a toll that is greater than the number of people who die each year from kidney disease.

[...]

The Harvard study found that people without health insurance had a 40 percent higher risk of death than those with private health insurance -- as a result of being unable to obtain necessary medical care. The risk appears to have increased since 1993, when a similar study found the risk of death was 25 percent greater for the uninsured.

The increase in risk, according to the study, is likely to be a result of at least two factors. One is the greater difficulty the uninsured have today in finding care, as public hospitals have closed or cut back on services. The other is improvements in medical care for insured people with treatable chronic conditions like high blood pressure. [The New York Times, 9/17/09]


Between 2005 and 2010, the number of people who died prematurely each year due to a lack of health coverage rose from 20,350 to 26,100.

Between 2005 and 2010, the total number of people who died prematurely due to a lack of health coverage was 134,120.

Each and every state sees residents die prematurely due to a lack of health insurance. [Families USA, June 2012]

 

[water505]

No one deserves to die because they lack access to healthcare.

Typical progressive lies.

You're fucking brain damaged.

Wear a helmet. Pukey will buy it for you, I'm sure.

 

[water505]

Deamonte Driver, a 12-year-old homeless child, died Sunday in a District hospital after an infection from a molar spread to his brain.

At the time he fell ill, his family's Medicaid coverage had lapsed. Even on the state plan, his mother said, the children lacked regular dental care and she had great difficulty finding a dentist. [The Washington Post, 3/3/07]


Researchers from Harvard Medical School say the lack of coverage can be tied to about 45,000 deaths a year in the United States -- a toll that is greater than the number of people who die each year from kidney disease.

[...]

The Harvard study found that people without health insurance had a 40 percent higher risk of death than those with private health insurance -- as a result of being unable to obtain necessary medical care. The risk appears to have increased since 1993, when a similar study found the risk of death was 25 percent greater for the uninsured.

The increase in risk, according to the study, is likely to be a result of at least two factors. One is the greater difficulty the uninsured have today in finding care, as public hospitals have closed or cut back on services. The other is improvements in medical care for insured people with treatable chronic conditions like high blood pressure. [The New York Times, 9/17/09]


Between 2005 and 2010, the number of people who died prematurely each year due to a lack of health coverage rose from 20,350 to 26,100.

Between 2005 and 2010, the total number of people who died prematurely due to a lack of health coverage was 134,120.

Each and every state sees residents die prematurely due to a lack of health insurance. [Families USA, June 2012]

So how are those three and four month waits for an MRI going in Canuckistahn?

Fucking ignorant douche.