Leno's Theory

[Virtual_Burlesque]

The LA Weekly ran an interview questioning Jay Leno’s politics.

Personally, I would have been much more interested in a similar examination of Dennis Miller’s rebirth, but that was not offered.

This, was.

Does Mr. Middle-of-the-Road Lean Left?

Jay Leno talks about the tragedy and comedy of politics
by Nikki Finke

In truth, I am not terribly concerned about Leno’s political opinion. I lost respect for him as a serious comedian back in the 90's with The Dancing Itto’s.

He did (in the article cited above) make a fleeting statement which caught my attention, as being in my opinion obviously false, and I wondered what others here feel.

Here is that question and answer:

At what point in the Iraq war did you start joking about Bush again?

I think it really started with Bush saying “Mission Accomplished” and landing on the aircraft carrier. That was probably the point where it’s obvious to the audience this is turning into a political tool. When it’s obvious to the audience what’s happening, then it works. Look, you don’t change anybody’s mind with comedy. You just reinforce what they already believe.

That is what I question.

What about Mort Sahl, Lenny Bruce, Dick Gregory, Godfrey Cambridge, Tom Lehrer, George Carlin, Tom and Dick Smothers, Richard Pryor, Ellen DeGeneres, and Margaret Cho?

Those are just the ones I can think of without wracking (and wrecking) my brain,

I don’t insist that you stay on topic, but the topic I started this thread about regards your thoughts on the truth of Leno’s statement that “you don’t change anybody’s mind with comedy.”

Additionally, Can you also not change anyone’s mind with comedy in the written form — story, essay, editorial, et cetera?

 

[cantdog]

Cock size

http://www.weirdclipart.com/images/mycock.jpg
How important is it ?

I think Bush has been hilarious right along. Leno tries too hard.

 

[poohlive]

I would have to say I agree with Leno's statement about Comedy. I don't think it particularly changes anyone mind. I've never heard a devout Christian listen to a George Carlin performance and say, "Wow, I never thougth of it that way... well, God's dead, that's it. I'm going to a titty bar."
But, rather, George Carlin says what's in our minds and hearts all along. He takes those fears religious nuts have, those times of doubt, of extreme pain where you ponder about god, and uses it.

He's reinforcing what you've already thought about, but never really spoken aloud (or never really believed in before).

One of the basic aspects of comedy, is starting with familiar elements. Elements people already know and can understand. John Heffron had a wonderful set a couple weeks ago about video games on Last Comic Standing. He said that ten years later, he was still being called away from video games to eat dinner, except it's his girlfriend and not his mom now...
"Just let me finish this last level. I'm almost done!"
Of course, I think I butchered it, but it was funny, and inciteful, and the reason that is... is because people especially guys in their 20's and 30's are still playing video games, and they know what it's like.

Comedy doesn't change anyone's mind on the subject of anything. I think comedy can be used as a teching tool. A very effective one at that, but that really isn't changing a person's mind... rather enlightening them on a certain subject. Jon Stewart does this almost every night on his comedy show, The Daily Show. He enlightens people about all the idiot things being said in politics and the world over. Is he changing people's minds about Bush or Kerry or the environment? No... not so much as he's giving them information (in a funny way) and teaching them something they didn't know. And, if he did change their minds one night towards Kerry, believe me, the next night he'll change them back again to Bush. That's the great thing about Jon, he doesn't let anything get by, he'll shoot down anyone.

I just don't see a situation where someone goes to a comedy show, or sees something on t.v. and all of a sudden realizes that they've been wrong all this time about a certain subject. I can easily see someone who has an opinion about something, could laugh and understand the other side, or even laugh at themselves for it, but does that mean their mind has changed on the subject? Well, I guess it's all in how you see it.

Personally, yes, comedians, especially the ones you mentioned, has shed the light on a lot of subjects, and helped to educate people, young people growing up, and whatnot, but I don't think anyone who has a dead set opinion would give it up for a comedy routine.

If someone were on the fence, and a good joke pulled him one way or the other, that might be different, but that's not really changing his mind either. He didn't really have a mindset to be changed, he just didn't know which side to go on.

 

[GingerV]

It does bring up the question: what can change someone's mind? I have no idea. The last time mine was changed it wasn't because of comedy...but I'm not everyone. I suppose it's possible that someone might loosen their grip on an opinion when shown the rediculous side of it. But it'd have to be a damned confident person. I imagine most folks feel attacked when their beliefs or assertions are rendered laughable.

Curious to see if anyone HAS had their mind changed by comedy.

G

 

[cantdog]

The rarest of persons is she (or he) who will be convinced they've had hold of the wrong end of something and then actually change their mind right in front of you. Consider that. You argue, friendly-wise, of course, and demonstrate to someone that they have espoused the wrong idea. Everyone, nearly, will still defend their early position, even after they have seen they were likely screwing up. They will then leave your presence, and think about it, and thereafter think differently. But to stop arguing and agree that you are right during the discussion? Three times I've seen that, in thirty years.

The human capacity for defending the ego with obfuscation, self-delusion, and rationalization is nearly infinite. If you see someone, as I've described, actually see them change their mind, you are in the presence of a vanishingly rare intellectual honesty.

When I've had to abandon a pet idea it has nearly always been exactly because of enlightening of the kind you speak of. A fresh viewpoint, a connection before unnoticed to another set of facts, illuminated the first set of facts so that they didn't look as they had any more. Education, analysis, contemplation from another point of vantage, and then the old way of seeing it became untenable.

So I don't rule it out. Good comics specialize in turning familiar facts around to see the other side.


cantdog

 

[Weird Harold]

Curious to see if anyone HAS had their mind changed by comedy.

To be honest, I'm not sure if "comedy changed my mind" -- it's certainly made me reconsider my positin many times over the years and helped shape my opinions.

I can say that comedy has changed the way I think about some )actually a lot of) issues, but I'm not sure that's the same as "changing my mind."

 

[poohlive]

Yeah, thanks Harold, my point exactly.


On the same lines, I do have a funny little anecdote. a few years ago my dad had brought home a tape of George Carlin's HBO special, "You're All Diseased." A great Carlin show, with lots of inciteful comedy in it.

One bit was about cigars, and stupid (white) executives who smoke cigars, and think they're all cool. Carlin went into this bit, just as my dad stepped out on the porch (in his suit from work, with suspenders) and was smoking on a nice big cigar. He was yelling at Carlin, and my brother and I could help but laugh at the whole situation.

My dad kept smoking cigars though... so didn't change his mind.

Also, that special was before 9/11. And George Carlin addresses terrorism on airplanes, and how easy it was (back then) to bring anything onto the plane. Knives, scissors, pens, whatnot... And, even if you don't bring anything, they give you a knife and fork once your on the plane.
Although, it is a plastic knife... but then again, if you really wanted to kill a man, if you are determined enough, it'll get the job done.
And then, you can just use your hands. What's the policy of bringing huge hands on an airplane?

Anyway, during 9/11 Carlin's special really did impact me... cause he basically said this was going to happen. And no one listened. He didn't change a single mind. I'm not saying we should have listened to George Carlin, and 9/11 might not have happened, just that he made an incite on the way stupid airports operate. No one's mind was changed though...

And that's sad, really.

 

[Weird Harold]

A great Carlin show, with lots of inciteful comedy in it.

a deliberate pun or a spelling error?

 

[GingerV]

I don't care if it was intentional, I think I love it. And although I don't know the man....I think Carlin might as well .

G

 

[Weird Harold]

I don't care if it was intentional, I think I love it. And although I don't know the man....I think Carlin might as well .

G

It does fit his style, doesn't it.

 

[Guest]

obviously, i can only speak for myself here, but with all the crap on tv on the news... i get so dizzy trying to follow what is really going on...humor will catch my attention and really make me think.

i am going to see lewis black next week at the mohegan sun.. for those of you who dont know who he is:
Lewis Black
this man must still be going through withdrawls from drug addiction but he will and does say anything that comes to mind re: politics and the state of america today. he actually makes me stop to think...yes, and even change my mind or look into things with a new perspective.. a comedian who really can make you think.

i feel that way about Jon Stewart as well, though hes not quite as funny as Lewis
Jon Stewart

who needs cnn when comedy central has the daily show?!

 

[poohlive]

Come on... lol, Carlin's not the only one that can fiddle around with words.


90 percent of my news come from the Daily Show... the rest is composed mostly from my little radio that picks up Area 53 signals in my basement.
I know what you're thinking... but let me assure you, it exists. In Colorado, deep in the mountains. Where the mole people live.
Don't tell me I'm crazy!!! That's what they want you to think.


Ha ha. Way to go with Lewis Black. I think he's one of my favorite too. I saw his HBO special the other night, and he really does a number on politics. Very political. I love his Daily show specials too.

"If it wasn't for that horse... I wouldn't have spent that year in college."
(Lewis Black overheard this at a coffee shop)

 

[Weird Harold]

Come on... lol, Carlin's not the only one that can fiddle around with words.

I dont pay much attention to typos and spelling errors unless they're inadvertantly funny or change themaning drastically.

It's rare to find someone who can slip in that kind of pun on purpose.