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JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
http://washingtontimes.com/news/200...-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1
MAKE THEM LEGAL SO WE CAN TREAT THEM.
MAKE THEM LEGAL SO WE CAN TREAT THEM.
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JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
JOMAR.
No. Its how things are done these days.
1. We argue that something is included if it isnt specifically excluded, and if it's excluded we debate what its label means. IT DEPENDS ON WHAT 'IS', IS. Bill Clinton.
No. Its how things are done these days.
1. We argue that something is included if it isnt specifically excluded, and if it's excluded we debate what its label means. IT DEPENDS ON WHAT 'IS', IS. Bill Clinton.
xssve
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Of course if you do legalize them, then they have to pay taxes too.
But you're right, it's probably cheaper to keep sending them home on buses while commodity prices rise, costs rise to expand and maintain an increasingly corrupt US Border Control, given the money involved in smuggling has been a shot in the arm for increasingly well organized and lucrative criminal conspiracies on both sides of the border.
Plus, they don't speak English, the bastards.
But you're right, it's probably cheaper to keep sending them home on buses while commodity prices rise, costs rise to expand and maintain an increasingly corrupt US Border Control, given the money involved in smuggling has been a shot in the arm for increasingly well organized and lucrative criminal conspiracies on both sides of the border.
Plus, they don't speak English, the bastards.
TE999
How 'bout a kiss, baby
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Not to mention getting mucho votes and dinero for the Dems and creating another dependency class. Once they're legal they won't be able to succeed due to 'institutional racism' and will need all sorts of help from a benevolent and oh-so-caring Dem government.
It's a win-win.
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JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
XSSVE
Locally the Mexicans did so well harvesting tomatoes for us we built public housing for them atop the tomato fields....several projects! THAT is the perfect example of bureaucrat policy. LET'S SEE, THE MIGRANTS NEED AFFORDABLE HOUSING, SO LETS BUILD IT ON TOP OF THEIR JOB.
TE999
That only works so long as you have other people's money to spend.
Locally the Mexicans did so well harvesting tomatoes for us we built public housing for them atop the tomato fields....several projects! THAT is the perfect example of bureaucrat policy. LET'S SEE, THE MIGRANTS NEED AFFORDABLE HOUSING, SO LETS BUILD IT ON TOP OF THEIR JOB.
TE999
That only works so long as you have other people's money to spend.
CharleyH
Curioser and curiouser
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You are an idiot. Well, that has always been obvious. However many Americans (not all) are idiots with you. Your reasoning against public Healthcare is as lame as your reasoning for every citizen bearing arms. Let's just face it upfront. America needs to come out of the 1950's 0r ... the ...
culturally (that equals coming out of republicanism and that further equals going beyond myths about the 10 Commandments and Jesus and it means changing the bill of rights, which is scary).
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JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
CHARLEY?
In the present crisis everyone needs to be pulling the wagon NOT riding in it; especially not the little brown bastards from across the river. Mexico for Mexicans! Our convicts can pick the crops, plus theyre citizens! and sitting on their asses watching Oprah. Every ton of tomatoes they pick knock a day off their time. Plus they already qualify for ObamaCare.
ANOTHER GREAT IDEA.
If you quit school or flunk-out before graduation, you owe the government one day of what it costs to educate you from the time you leave till the time you were scheduled to graduate. We'll take it from your welfare check or IRS refund.
In the present crisis everyone needs to be pulling the wagon NOT riding in it; especially not the little brown bastards from across the river. Mexico for Mexicans! Our convicts can pick the crops, plus theyre citizens! and sitting on their asses watching Oprah. Every ton of tomatoes they pick knock a day off their time. Plus they already qualify for ObamaCare.
ANOTHER GREAT IDEA.
If you quit school or flunk-out before graduation, you owe the government one day of what it costs to educate you from the time you leave till the time you were scheduled to graduate. We'll take it from your welfare check or IRS refund.
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Austin8
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I run a landscaping business in Texas. I compete directly with larger contractors that are reliant upon Mexican labor. They don’t like the fact that they have to compete with a white guy!
I have to cut my rates on a regular basis cause the customer can get the larger companies to do the work for far less than I can. The reason is directly related to cheap and in most cases illegal mexican labor. I’m with Jim on this one, and have been saying the same thing for years! Yeah, I’ve heard “Oh americans won’t do the jobs the mexicans do, and even though you can count the white guys in my area that do landscaping, stone work etc. on one hand, I say bullshit! Send there ass back to mexico! Let them try and fix there country! Instead of fucking ours up!
I have to cut my rates on a regular basis cause the customer can get the larger companies to do the work for far less than I can. The reason is directly related to cheap and in most cases illegal mexican labor. I’m with Jim on this one, and have been saying the same thing for years! Yeah, I’ve heard “Oh americans won’t do the jobs the mexicans do, and even though you can count the white guys in my area that do landscaping, stone work etc. on one hand, I say bullshit! Send there ass back to mexico! Let them try and fix there country! Instead of fucking ours up!
R. Richard
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There are Mexcan criiminals who come across the border. The law does little or nothing about it.
Most of the Mexicans who come across the border are hard working people who can't really make a living in the fucked up Mexican economy. All they want to do is make some money, send some of it home to their family and save the rest so that they can eventually buy enough land to make a living on. Alas, that last is mostly a dream.
Once a Mexican gets to the USA, he/she can mostly get only low wage jobs. The employers who use Mexican illegals are de facto criminals, so you can imagine how they pay the illegals. The Mexicans have no real alternative and they will keep coming across the border until they have a way to make a living down there.
I'm not trying to defend the Mexican illegals, what they do is against the law. However, it maybe helps to understand why they do it.
Most of the Mexicans who come across the border are hard working people who can't really make a living in the fucked up Mexican economy. All they want to do is make some money, send some of it home to their family and save the rest so that they can eventually buy enough land to make a living on. Alas, that last is mostly a dream.
Once a Mexican gets to the USA, he/she can mostly get only low wage jobs. The employers who use Mexican illegals are de facto criminals, so you can imagine how they pay the illegals. The Mexicans have no real alternative and they will keep coming across the border until they have a way to make a living down there.
I'm not trying to defend the Mexican illegals, what they do is against the law. However, it maybe helps to understand why they do it.
amicus
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Obama, as well as his opposition, have tied healthcare and immigration into one complex issue to which, it seems to me, there is no, 'right', correct, legal, moral or ethical answer.
From Austin8's vantage point, he offers a logical summary. However, it is not the first time immigrants in this nation have taken the lower paying jobs and incurred the wrath of those who previously served the market. Irish, the various waves of Asian immigrants, all did as the Mexicans have done, gain a foothold by doing the dirtiest and hardest jobs for the lowest pay.
It is difficult to sift out the political motivations of each side and try to view the situation from an objective point of view.
I wrote about a recent program concerning, "The Children of Mexico", that provided me with another, different point of view and altered what I had considered the basic issues of the problem.
One attempts to be consistent in one's premises and I remember the anger I felt as I read the History of Jews in Germany and Russia, who begged the United States and the western Democratic nations to allow them political asylum from Fascism and Communism. Western Nations did nothing and six million innocent people died as a result of our inaction.
The program I mentioned, the stories of tens of thousands of children, on their own, from Central America and Mexico, riding the rails to find their families in the United States or find a better life, was heart rending. It modified my view on illegal aliens and widened the premise under which earlier conclusions were drawn.
I accept as a given, that every nation has the legal right to determine who crosses their borders and how long they are permitted to stay.
The US, like every other industrial nation, has welcomed immigrants when their labor or skills were needed.
Make your case however you choose, but one should be aware of some of the basic causes of the current dilemma.
Amicus
edited to add: http://www.hulu.com/search?query=which+way+home+hbosg
this is the HBOSG documentary to which I referred
From Austin8's vantage point, he offers a logical summary. However, it is not the first time immigrants in this nation have taken the lower paying jobs and incurred the wrath of those who previously served the market. Irish, the various waves of Asian immigrants, all did as the Mexicans have done, gain a foothold by doing the dirtiest and hardest jobs for the lowest pay.
It is difficult to sift out the political motivations of each side and try to view the situation from an objective point of view.
I wrote about a recent program concerning, "The Children of Mexico", that provided me with another, different point of view and altered what I had considered the basic issues of the problem.
One attempts to be consistent in one's premises and I remember the anger I felt as I read the History of Jews in Germany and Russia, who begged the United States and the western Democratic nations to allow them political asylum from Fascism and Communism. Western Nations did nothing and six million innocent people died as a result of our inaction.
The program I mentioned, the stories of tens of thousands of children, on their own, from Central America and Mexico, riding the rails to find their families in the United States or find a better life, was heart rending. It modified my view on illegal aliens and widened the premise under which earlier conclusions were drawn.
I accept as a given, that every nation has the legal right to determine who crosses their borders and how long they are permitted to stay.
The US, like every other industrial nation, has welcomed immigrants when their labor or skills were needed.
Make your case however you choose, but one should be aware of some of the basic causes of the current dilemma.
Amicus
edited to add: http://www.hulu.com/search?query=which+way+home+hbosg
this is the HBOSG documentary to which I referred
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JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
AMICUS
Its not usually the Goth hordes who conquer nations, it's almost always Goth tourists and immigrants come for a better life, then expel the natives. America is the best example of this with the Indians. Mexicans should be back in Mexico, shoulder to the wheel, improving their lives there rather than bringing their poverty and violence and illiteracy and diseases with them to America. And when we finally exhaust the supply of other peoples' money we'll be a 3rd world has-been like Britain.
Its not usually the Goth hordes who conquer nations, it's almost always Goth tourists and immigrants come for a better life, then expel the natives. America is the best example of this with the Indians. Mexicans should be back in Mexico, shoulder to the wheel, improving their lives there rather than bringing their poverty and violence and illiteracy and diseases with them to America. And when we finally exhaust the supply of other peoples' money we'll be a 3rd world has-been like Britain.
Boxlicker101
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There are huge differences between the earlier aliens and the current mass of illegals. Those earlier immigrants intended to make America their homes, and most of them had something to offer besides willingness to work hard. To start with, they were not criminals as the current illegals are. They had to have somethiung going for them before they were even allowed off the boats, such as jobs or enough money to live on for a while. They spoke English, or quickly learned, and made America a better place.
amicus
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I thought I wrote a pretty good and fair piece about the situation in Post #11, but I see that both JBJ & Box, disagree.
Without saying how and why, I currently know several Mexican immigrant families and single men who are here to make a living for their wives and children and send money back to Mexico for their extended families.
I also have knowledge of a drug dealer, Mexican, illegal, and the network he ran.
JBJ, I totally disagree with your analogy of Mexicans with Native Americans, it just doesn't wash. A perusual of the millions of Irish when they migrated to America, is a much better comparison as the Irish were shunned by politie and correct American Society for decades.
I watched, from various locations around the country, the impact that Vietnamese immigrants had on American society. Suddenly, it seemed, all the little convenience stores, the 7/11's were staffed by Vietnamese; there is a film about Vietnamese fishermen taking over the shrimp industry on the Gulf Coast to the chagrin of local, 'gringo' fishermen.
There has been, in recent history, an influx of immigrants from Arab States that bring their religion and culture with them.
All the little convenience stores are now owned and operated by Hispanics as the Vietnamese have melded into the general population.
There is further dissention among the Black Community as all the low income housing has been occupied over the years by Hispanics and the African Americans have gone elsewhere in the communities.
Box...yes, there has been a change, an addition to the kind of people coming across the border. I think that is because of the increasing pressure on Drug Cartels in Mexico and the US and the 'smuggling business' at the border, on both sides, that profit from the immigrants.
I admit that I too, get irritated at duel language requirements, government agencies printing information in English and Spanish, just as much as I did when the government was on a tear to change all signs to reflect the European Metric system instead of miles into Kilometers. Happily, Americans rejected that attempt.
It is perhaps, and only perhaps, not as terrible in Mexico as it was in East Germany when people risked their lives to escape to the West over the Berlin Wall, but the program I referred to, "Which way Home", tells a similar story of a people with no hope for the future in Mexico, Guatemala and Honduras. These kids travel for months with one shining hope before them, to make it to America alive.
To be fair, the genocide that has been going on in Africa for decades, is also a shameful story to which their seems no humane solution.
Them's me thoughts....
Amicus
Without saying how and why, I currently know several Mexican immigrant families and single men who are here to make a living for their wives and children and send money back to Mexico for their extended families.
I also have knowledge of a drug dealer, Mexican, illegal, and the network he ran.
JBJ, I totally disagree with your analogy of Mexicans with Native Americans, it just doesn't wash. A perusual of the millions of Irish when they migrated to America, is a much better comparison as the Irish were shunned by politie and correct American Society for decades.
I watched, from various locations around the country, the impact that Vietnamese immigrants had on American society. Suddenly, it seemed, all the little convenience stores, the 7/11's were staffed by Vietnamese; there is a film about Vietnamese fishermen taking over the shrimp industry on the Gulf Coast to the chagrin of local, 'gringo' fishermen.
There has been, in recent history, an influx of immigrants from Arab States that bring their religion and culture with them.
All the little convenience stores are now owned and operated by Hispanics as the Vietnamese have melded into the general population.
There is further dissention among the Black Community as all the low income housing has been occupied over the years by Hispanics and the African Americans have gone elsewhere in the communities.
Box...yes, there has been a change, an addition to the kind of people coming across the border. I think that is because of the increasing pressure on Drug Cartels in Mexico and the US and the 'smuggling business' at the border, on both sides, that profit from the immigrants.
I admit that I too, get irritated at duel language requirements, government agencies printing information in English and Spanish, just as much as I did when the government was on a tear to change all signs to reflect the European Metric system instead of miles into Kilometers. Happily, Americans rejected that attempt.
It is perhaps, and only perhaps, not as terrible in Mexico as it was in East Germany when people risked their lives to escape to the West over the Berlin Wall, but the program I referred to, "Which way Home", tells a similar story of a people with no hope for the future in Mexico, Guatemala and Honduras. These kids travel for months with one shining hope before them, to make it to America alive.
To be fair, the genocide that has been going on in Africa for decades, is also a shameful story to which their seems no humane solution.
Them's me thoughts....
Amicus
Bianca_Sommerland
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My opinion, quite simply on this matter, is until things are well at home, don't worry about your neighbors. JMO but concern about illegals while the health care system isn't working for established, taxpaying citizins seems a little backwards.
The idea of just making them legal? Well, okay then. The US is apparently becoming a free for all. I wasn't aware that the states had such limitless resources.
The idea of just making them legal? Well, okay then. The US is apparently becoming a free for all. I wasn't aware that the states had such limitless resources.
penandpaper
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Is it always gonna be like this? When are the smart people actually going to figure out that this is just cyclical behavior and has been going on for as long as humans have had history?
The thing that bothers me is it's always the same complaint. Hell, back when Mexico owned Texas they bitched up a storm about the US citizens invading their land, not speaking Spanish, poor family values, etc. Back when the Swedes built communities in Middle America, we bitched about them not speaking English, not farming like us, having too many kids, smelling bad.
Another point is we would have a negative population growth without illegals. For those of you that want the economy fixed, historically, that does not bode well.
The history lesson is one a first grader could figure out. Yet, due to prejudice and fear mongers we're stuck living in the past. The second you spend time with immigrants, (I do. I am the only whitie on our soccer team.) you realize they're the same person you are.
It's the lesson you learned in kindergarten, in church, and from your parents: Treat others how you want to be treated.
Sad thing is, it's impossible to do with so many fear clouded minds in the world.
The thing that bothers me is it's always the same complaint. Hell, back when Mexico owned Texas they bitched up a storm about the US citizens invading their land, not speaking Spanish, poor family values, etc. Back when the Swedes built communities in Middle America, we bitched about them not speaking English, not farming like us, having too many kids, smelling bad.
Another point is we would have a negative population growth without illegals. For those of you that want the economy fixed, historically, that does not bode well.
The history lesson is one a first grader could figure out. Yet, due to prejudice and fear mongers we're stuck living in the past. The second you spend time with immigrants, (I do. I am the only whitie on our soccer team.) you realize they're the same person you are.
It's the lesson you learned in kindergarten, in church, and from your parents: Treat others how you want to be treated.
Sad thing is, it's impossible to do with so many fear clouded minds in the world.
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
AMICUS
Yep, they all showed up after most of the American nation-building was completed. Immigrants always seem to just miss the hard work but line up early for the affirmative action.
Amicus I think youre a closet Usual Suspect.
Yep, they all showed up after most of the American nation-building was completed. Immigrants always seem to just miss the hard work but line up early for the affirmative action.
Amicus I think youre a closet Usual Suspect.
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penandpaper
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We should also all understand this is just another fear spin to stop healthcare. I don't care which side wants to spin, but I care whether or not people listen.
A previous post mentioned most immigrants being criminals. (I assume you mena criminal in the term of they're going to come here and do illegal things other than try to work.) My thought on that is back it up. My time with immigrants proves to me 90% are workers, 5% lazy asses, and 5% criminals. Very much the same make-up of our society. Prove me wrong.
A previous post mentioned most immigrants being criminals. (I assume you mena criminal in the term of they're going to come here and do illegal things other than try to work.) My thought on that is back it up. My time with immigrants proves to me 90% are workers, 5% lazy asses, and 5% criminals. Very much the same make-up of our society. Prove me wrong.
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JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
Fuck immigrants. All theyve ever brought to America is empty bellies, empty pockets, and empty minds. And they are always missing in action when there's work to be done.
In fairness, though, I consider the Pilgrims wetbacks like the rest since they did get here 13 years after Jamestown.
In fairness, though, I consider the Pilgrims wetbacks like the rest since they did get here 13 years after Jamestown.
penandpaper
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Bianca_Sommerland
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I won't argue with you. Why? Because you are talking about immigrants. I'm assuming you mean people who enter the country through legal means. I have no problem with a country deciding to invite those from other countries to make it their home.
Illegal Immigrants is another matter entirely. That is the issue on the table. It's not about racism. It's about the country no longer having, or wanting, to control who comes in.
I like your percentials. It would be a nice world if that was true with any people. I think the lazies and the criminals together outnumber the hard workers, but that's just my opinion. Maybe I'm too jaded.
amicus
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My opinion, quite simply on this matter, is until things are well at home, don't worry about your neighbors. JMO but concern about illegals while the health care system isn't working for established, taxpaying citizins seems a little backwards.
The idea of just making them legal? Well, okay then. The US is apparently becoming a free for all. I wasn't aware that the states had such limitless resources.
~~~
I like your Wheels, Bianca...
In a free society, people are considered assets, not liabilities. People create wealth and make discoveries and innovations, governments never do.
Some one else mentioned that Caucasian women's birth rate at less that replacement value, that of two children per woman. I had noted that before in another thread and it does make for curious demographic projections into the future, doesn't it?
Ami
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JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
Lincoln had the right attitude about immigrants, he drafted them into the army as soon as they stepped ashore. Let the Rebels kill the bastards and spare the real Americans.
Bianca_Sommerland
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Not mine unfortunately, just love the Boss.
I understand what you're saying, but I still find something off about the government changing policies and allowing for laws that are supposed to protect people to slide because it makes them look good. JMHO, but until people have some assurance that those present have the resources they work and pay for readily available, why should it be offered to those who have no vested interest in the country?
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JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
Cuz Obama is thinking ahead to the time when America tars & feathers his ass and rides him out of Dodge on a rail. Mexico might take him in.
