Legality posting minors memories

[Guest]

I am in the middle of writing a story that calls for 19 yo girl who remembers observing her mother agen12-13 (unbeknownst to her), screwing her brothers (Mom's brothers) on the beach. My question is, if I keep this to vivid descriptionsof what the minor observed spying on them, with no participation on her part, other then possibly describing how she got turned on watching, will this be accepted? Or am I required to avoid any detailed description of what the girl saw with just a general statement that she saw them having sex. Or is nothing like this allowed. I am getting differing opinions on this from others experience with rejection of some. Could someone suggest who I might write from Literotica that could give a straight answer on this for me?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[TheEarl]

The best thing for a fairly definitive answer would be to send a Private Message to Laurel (you can do that via the stickies at the top of the forum). She's in charge of what goes and what doesn't.

IMHO, I don't think you'd get away with that. As far as Lit is concerned (and it has to be this way for legal reasons) you cannot get turned on before you're 18. You don't know about sex before you're 18. As soon as you are 18, you always have a 3-way gangbang and lesbian affair with your best friend from school, but the day before, you didn't know sex existed.

Sorry. You should check anyway; maybe you can get away with that.

The Earl

 

[WriterDavid]

I would have expected that Literotica would be more liberal

The best thing for a fairly definitive answer would be to send a Private Message to Laurel (you can do that via the stickies at the top of the forum). She's in charge of what goes and what doesn't.

IMHO, I don't think you'd get away with that. As far as Lit is concerned (and it has to be this way for legal reasons) you cannot get turned on before you're 18. You don't know about sex before you're 18. As soon as you are 18, you always have a 3-way gangbang and lesbian affair with your best friend from school, but the day before, you didn't know sex existed.

Sorry. You should check anyway; maybe you can get away with that.

The Earl

Thank you - that's interesting.

I'm writing a novel in which the heroine has sex and she is 15 - but this is in Italy in 1354 when that would be a normal marrigable age. (By 17 they're worrying that they're on the shelf!) In Tudor England the church adviced that it was 'unwise' to marry off your children younger than 12.

My novel has modestly explicit sex but it's not pornographic, and the main story is more aimed at adventure plus humour. I don't expect to have trouble getting it published mainstream in Europe. I would have expected, therefore, that Literotica would be more liberal than that - depending, obviously, on the treatment of the sex scenes (consensuality etc.)

David

 

[Weird Harold]

I am in the middle of writing a story that calls for 19 yo girl who remembers observing her mother agen12-13 (unbeknownst to her), screwing her brothers (Mom's brothers) on the beach. My question is, if I keep this to vivid descriptionsof what the minor observed spying on them, with no participation on her part, other then possibly describing how she got turned on watching, will this be accepted?

This question has been raised before, and the answer is that your story would be rejected if the sex is depicted graphically --especially if the underage voyeur becomes aroused.

As far as yourhistorical novel, I'd suggest that you not refer to what the "age of majority" is and couch all references to age in terms of "you're an adult now, you must accept the dutires and responsibilities of an adult." Let the raeders assign ages according to their knowldege and preconceptions about what the "age of majority is or should be in that setting.

 

[cloudy]

This question has been raised before, and the answer is that your story would be rejected if the sex is depicted graphically --especially if the underage voyeur becomes aroused.

As far as yourhistorical novel, I'd suggest that you not refer to what the "age of majority" is and couch all references to age in terms of "you're an adult now, you must accept the dutires and responsibilities of an adult." Let the raeders assign ages according to their knowldege and preconceptions about what the "age of majority is or should be in that setting.

If I'm not mistaken, Cantdog submitted a story in which two underage characters (around 14 or 15, I think), witness a rape, and this affects their actions later in the story, and it was rejected flat out.

 

[cantdog]

My story of a fourteen and thirteen year old group of kids witnessing sexual violence and dealing with it, even though at no point engaging minors in sexual activities, was rejected. Under 18, no witnessing sex. As a casual one-liner reference, or like that, a paragraph referencing a memory, I have been allowed to publish here. But a description through the eyes of a minor would kick the work, if they notice it.

It's the "climate" now. By which we mean the caped crusaders of Justice embedded in the current government.

Lit is covering its ass. There are thousands of venues to publish in. That's this one. It's not their idea, but it is the reality here and now.

 

[Pure]

Below is my private, personal opinion only, based on observations and postings at literotica.

There are two questions, one of the letter of the [U.S.] law, the other of literotica.

IF literotica wanted to fight up to the Supreme Ct., they might do any number of things they do not now do. In general most *written* material, aimed at adults, accessible to adults only, but depicting minors in sexually graphic scenes is legal.

You example of 'witnessing' creates, of course, a borderline situation, as to the *sexual participation* of the minor; as one poster has pointed out-- is he getting off on it?

The acts like the Children's Online Protection Act and Childrens Internet Protection Act, and others tried for broad coverage, some of which was struck down at the Supreme Ct. level, i.e., a ban on visual material depicting what *appear* to be minors, but who are really adults.

Also some of the Acts were put on hold (suspended by the Courts, for a period not specified).

Some of these acts contain the 'catch all' phrase, "material harmful to minors", which would include lots of written material, as viewed through conservative eyes.

In this climate, I believe--my personal opinion-- Lit has adopted a prudent approach of avoiding gray areas, and has declined to make expensive 'pioneering' efforts in courts (though it supports various free speech groups who may do that.)

So I believe what cantdog and others describe is written material about *minors' (marginal) involvement in sexual activity*. Lit, imo, declines to deal with that, since it's clearly a target of existing and proposed laws, even though parts of them keep getting declared unconstitutional. Further, even were the minor observer UNinvolved, looking through a telescope, you can see that the sexually graphic description of what he sees might be considered 'harmful to minors,' should that standard ever come into force. I.e., it's not the sort of thing minors should be doing, one might argue.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

The catch is graphic depiction. I have a story where a girl admits to having been molested in the past, since she is barely 18, the obvious implication is that it was prior to her reaching 18. But thre is no graphic depiction of it, no flashback sequence or anything other than her admission.

If the goal is to establish a prior experience in a young character, you can do that, but you cannot describe what was experienced in detail.

For example, a freshly turned 18 girl could give her BF a hot blowjob and you could say, this wasn't the first cock she had sucked, if you wish to establish how she has technical expertise. But she can't remember the first one she sucked and all the mistakes she made.

-Colly

 

[R. Richard]

In this climate, I believe--my personal opinion-- Lit has adopted a prudent approach of avoiding gray areas, and has declined to make expensive 'pioneering' efforts in courts (though it supports various free speech groups who may do that.)

I believe, also my personal opinion, that the Literotica approach is the right one. I want a place to publish. Literotica is taking the steps to see that I do have one. It would be nice to see a bit more free speech, however, it would be a tradgedy to lose some free speech while reaching for risky possibilities.

 

[sun_lover_61]

when i was a child...

I recall reading a novel when I was about 17 that had page after page of explicit gang rape scenes of 12 year old girls by improbably well hung men. With the girls describing the ruination of their "cunts" in most graphic terms.

The book did the rounds amongst my friends (male and female). It was our final year of high school - or perhaps 1st year of university.

The interesting thing is, that book was purchased from a book store, not a porno shop - and was considered "literary" - although not literature you wanted your mum to catch you reading. It was in the vein of Sade, and his like, and hadn't been banned.

I wish i could remember the title and author, it would give this post a lot more umph! This would have been circa 1978-79 if any of you recall the book. It may have been published a few years before that, but not much earlier. If it helps, the book contained inky sketches of exaggerated penises and vaginas - indicating the prominence of those body parts in the minds of the narrative voices.

My point is...how did we come to our current state of extreme nitpicking about childhood sexual experiences. More to the point, does it really help protect children? If it does then it might be worth it - but i feel skeptical. As i wrote in another post, i have just recently written about my own early teen years - not for publication, but for myself. It seems bizarre to me that working through my OWN life and OWN experiences becomes "illegal" if I make them public. Can the mere writing of them be interpretted as violating some law? The writing is important to me because it helps me work through what i am today - re-visiting defining experiences.

By the way, I remember when we read that book in our late teens the suggestion of us being peadophiles never crossed our minds (not mine anyway). I never really thought about it back then as possibly inciting someone to a sexual act with a child (Was I naive perhaps?). It never occurred to me that it would and didn't provoke such desires in me - but then I am not everyone.

Also, our belief in our right to read such texts without censorship was an unstated, given truth back then. Nowadays we are all gun shy - even as I write this I imagine some secret agents questioning me over some other issue and pulling this post out to blackmail me or something. Fuck, I hate this world we live in!

SL61

 

[Weird Harold]

I wish i could remember the title and author, it would give this post a lot more umph! This would have been circa 1978-79 if any of you recall the book.

The Story of "O'?

I dont' remember the actual author, but it's credited as an "autobiography" under the pseudonym 'O.'

 

[gauchecritic]

At the risk of having a story pulled I will endorse Harold's advice. Although I wasn't specific, the setting in one of my stories suggested a much younger age of consent (19th cent. U.S) I merely stated that the female was some six months into her majority. I'm sure the readers knew what I meant (the few that have read it).

 

[sun_lover_61]

The Story of "O'?

I dont' remember the actual author, but it's credited as an "autobiography" under the pseudonym 'O.'

Dear Weird,

It wasn't "O", although i read that too.

I am going to find out about this - it is like an itch I can't scratch. I am going to ring some old school friends about it and ask "What was that profoundly vile, obscene...blah blah".

SL61

 

[oggbashan]

What used to be acceptable, and still is acceptable in the UK, and probably Australia, is less acceptable in the US because of the activities of the Christian Right.

Some significant organisations in the US would ban all erotica, mild or not, and see any sex with participants under 18 as not just wrong but sinful.

Literotica, as a US based organisation, has to tread very carefully to avoid trouble because there are people monitoring what Literotica does, just waiting for a lapse.

The 18th birthday rule is there to protect this community's existence. We know, and there are statistics to prove it, that many sexual acts precede the legal age of majority. We pretend that nothing happens until the 18th birthday party when a fully experienced sexual being emerges like a butterfly from the asexual chrysalis.

Og

 

[Kassiana]

1. People do have sexual experiences before their eighteenth birthdays. That's reality.

2. Many of those sexual experiences are pleasurable and (for those involving more than one person) mutually consented to. That, too, is reality.

3. Depictions of sexual experiences that people have before their eighteenth birthdays, despite the fact that the statements I made above are true, are often censored and/or penalized under current U.S. law. That is the reality which trumps the other statements, unfortunately, and requires Lit's charade that no, no one ever has sex before he/she is 18.