Legal information?

[TaffyJ]

I'm writing a novel for publication, and I am wondering where I can get information about what it is legal to write about, here in the US. Its a shame I have to even ask this question. I have been looking on the internet for this, and all I can find is law that prohibits visual works. I tried the Romance Writers of America website, and they didn't have what I needed, without paying a $25 membership fee.

I'm not asking for a discussion for or against anything. I'm just wondering, since I can't find hard evidence of US law, can anyone here point me to where the laws are? I don't want to do anything wrong, and I don't want to spend the next 6 months writing something, then have something bad happen. I just wanna know what the rules are, so I won't break them.

Keep in mind, I am not asking about Lit rules. I completely accept and understand those. I am asking about actual US federal law on hardcopy books published for circulation.

In order to not start a whole big deal, anyone with info on where I can find this could just PM me.

Thanks!

 

[Guest]

I'm not much use (being a Brit and all), but you can write about ANYTHING you damn well please!

Whether any publisher would touch it with a ten-foot barge pole, is another matter, of course.

Then again, I've read some pretty sick and twisted PUBLISHED stuff in my time. Teratologist - Ed Lee & Wrath James White, to name but one. If anyone's read it, you SO know what I mean... sexually abused nuns, and church leaders - who wanted it, in some very sick ways... need I say more?

Seriously, there are very few laws limiting what you, as an individual can write. There are slightly more laws on what can be published for others to actually read, but most of those laws deal with libel, inciting racial hatred, and the like (but that's what I know of in the UK, as I said).

Writing comes under the realm of thought (it is intellectual property), so there is very little legislation covering what can and can't be written, so is looked upon very differently from the visual, for example.

Like I said, you can write anything, but getting something more risky published could be your hurdle - - ESPECIALLY if it involves children. I have read a few horror novels that dealt with child abuse, for example, but it usually comes down to context. Anything gratuitous would most likely be completely snubbed.

Hope that helps! Probably not, but I hate seeing threads with no replies.

Lou

 

[TheEarl]

Taffy! Bloody hell, I haven't seen you in donkey's years. How the devil are you?

On what you can and can't write, I'd very much doubt there are any hard and fast laws, like Lou says, especially considering the USA's yin for freedom of speech. Whether anyone will want to publish/want to buy is a different matter altogether.

Don't suppose you can drop us some hints about what you're thinking of venturing into?

The Earl

 

[Boota]

I don't know about books, but I have a song that might get me a visit from the US Secret Service if we ever record it.

 

[CopyCarver]

On what you can and can't write, I'd very much doubt there are any hard and fast laws, like Lou says, especially considering the USA's yin for freedom of speech. The Earl

That's what the Bill of Rights says, and it's the propaganda that's spewed when politicians want to puff and blow about how the U.S. is freer and more noble than thou, but the reality is quite different--especially now, in the reign of George the Demagogue II.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I'm not sure what kind of stuff you're asking about.

Are you taking about the legality of using bits and pieces from other books or songs or copyrighted material? There's a legal principle known as "fair use" that allows a reviewer or scholar to use excerpts of published works without getting explicit permission, but for use in fiction it's customary to get the copyright holder's permission to use their stuff.

Or are you wondering how far you can go in depicting sexual acts, like sex between minors, say? Or do you intend to write stuff about real people and wonder how far yu can go without running the risk of libel for slander? Are you going to reveal government secrets?

One thing for sure, if you go with a legit publisher, they'll vet your book for legal problems and let you know about them before they go to publication. On the other hand, if you write an entire book about the sexual adventures of a 14 year-old, no one's going to touch it in the first place, and if you decide then to self-publish, you can be held libel for anything in there that's libelous or violates someone's copyright.

So just what are your plans, love?

One publisher I know just started a new policy: every manuscript must come with a page appended listing every brand name mentioned in the story. If the heroine jumps into her BMW, it has to be listed. If she lights up a Camel with a Bic lighter while she drinks a diet Pepsi, all have to be listed. If she slides into a pair of Adidas or Manolo Blahniks, they have to be listed. Then all these brand names are given their copyright due on a separate page in the front. ""Diet Pepsi" is a registerd trademark of the Pepsi Cola bottling company... Bic is a registered trade mark of the Bic whatever company..." &C &c.

And whatever you do, stay far, far away from ANY Disney corporation trademark. They'll come after the smallest, most trivial misuse of their copyrighted property and sue your tits off.

 

[CopyCarver]

If, as it sounds, you're searching for a one-stop source of all federal law regulating published fiction, you're out of luck. There are hundreds of laws, to be sure, but they were enacted in patchwork fashion, over a broad time span, in overlapping and sometimes contradictory patterns, and all are subject to interpretation. There is absolutely no definitive final word.

Most attorneys aren't great sources of information--even if you can afford to put one on retainer--unless they're specialists in publishing law, and the latter are hard to find unless you're located in New York or another publishing center.

One source you might try is Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts. I know from experience, these people are extremely competent, very helpful, but (alas) badly overworked and understaffed. There's no guarantee that they could find time to help you. If you'd like to try, you can find links to regional offices at:

http://www.starvingartistslaw.com/help/volunteer lawyers.htm

 

[R. Richard]

I'm not asking for a discussion for or against anything. I'm just wondering, since I can't find hard evidence of US law, can anyone here point me to where the laws are? I don't want to do anything wrong, and I don't want to spend the next 6 months writing something, then have something bad happen. I just wanna know what the rules are, so I won't break them.

Keep in mind, I am not asking about Lit rules. I completely accept and understand those. I am asking about actual US federal law on hardcopy books published for circulation.

I think the subject has been pretty well addressed already. However, let me add this. If you got copies of all of the laws which address your concerns, you could not begin to understand what the restrictions are unless you are a lawyer who specializes in said laws in the first place. Even then, the lawyer would only have an opinion.

If you are talking to a legitimate hard copy publisher, they will decide what you can or cannot write about. Any other opinion is immaterial.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

That's what the Bill of Rights says, and it's the propaganda that's spewed when politicians want to puff and blow about how the U.S. is freer and more noble than thou, but the reality is quite different--especially now, in the reign of George the Demagogue II.

You've been spending waaaay too much time in the fever swamps.

 

[CopyCarver]

You've been spending waaaay too much time in the fever swamps.

You might want to discuss that with--as one example of many-- the lady who got grilled for many hours after the "Homeland Security" buffs spotted one of her emails referring to the fact that her daughter "bombed" at her dance recital. I suspect she--and many others--are convinced the paranoia is on the other side.

 

[TaffyJ]

Thank you all

I've been hanging out at the general board too much. I really didn't expect to get any serious responses. I'm happy to read your thoughts. Lou, Earl, and DrM, thanks for your time and input...

I didn't want to go into detail in my original post because I know its all been done to death. But since you asked, here's my situation. The two main characters in my story spend several years apart from each other. So it is necessary to establish the depth and nature of their relationship early on in order to have signifigant meaning when they meet again later.

In the beginning, they're teenagers. I want to include sexual tension mostly. Nobody takes their clothes off. There would be nothing explicit, except maybe internal thoughts about how they feel. Its all pretty innocent, and it is intended to be. I'm using the innocence and sweetness of their early days to counterpoint the roughness and intensity when they meet again as adults. I'd say the earliest age at which any sexuality at all is mentioned would be age 15 for the girl, and age 18 for the boy, where she has a crush on him and tries to encourage him, but he resists. They are apart for about ten years, then continue on with a more serious adult relationship.

I've never tried to publish anything, except my little submissions here at Lit. I've had this story sitting around on 600 handwritten notebook pages for a few years. Now, I am in the process of transferring it to MS Word and rewriting to suit publication goals.

I never could imagine sending this to a publisher as a manuscript before because the genre, paranormal romance/ erotica, didn't exist in the form it does today. Lately, I've read massmarket paperbacks that include detailed oral sex, masturbation and anal. A decade or so ago, massmarket usually stopped at only general references to these acts, if they were mentioned at all. So, the market is getting ripe for me to put this out there and have it accepted by a broader audience.

If publishers are interested in the story at all, are they likely to tell me where the problem areas are and ask me to fix and resubmit? Or are they going to reject it completely unless I have it just right the first time around?

Thanks for your help, guys!

 

[TheEarl]

Are you kidding? Always got time to help you. I still have your PM saved from years and years ago when you critiqued one of my first ever stories.

I can't see anything out of line in your story synopsis at first glance. Age limits aren't Lit-rigid in novels if you're telling a story and I can't see any problem with what you've proposed. If there is anything and a publisher is interested in the story (asuming it's not something huge and story-wrecking), I'd imagine they'll still be interested. Publishers will have your work edited before it's published and run past a legal department. They pay other people to know the answers.

If it's good enough, I'm sure they'll be snatching it up.

The Earl

 

[Stella_Omega]

You have been spending too much time at the GB!

Honestly It IS legal to treat under-age sexuality in writing. The Lit board makes their own rules, for their own very good reasons.
Among those excellent authors who have, are William Burroughs, Vladimir Nabokov, Francesca Lia Block, and, um... I can't think of any more offhand...

 

[TheEarl]

You have been spending too much time at the GB!

Honestly It IS legal to treat under-age sexuality in writing. The Lit board makes their own rules, for their own very good reasons.
Among those excellent authors who have, are William Burroughs, Vladimir Nabokov, Francesca Lia Block, and, um... I can't think of any more offhand...

Melvin Burgess, Arabella Weir, Martha O'Connor, just to name a few in my library. They're all around the same kind of level, 15 year olds (which in England is only one year of legality).

The Earl

 

[TaffyJ]

Yes, but

You have been spending too much time at the GB!

Honestly It IS legal to treat under-age sexuality in writing. The Lit board makes their own rules, for their own very good reasons.
Among those excellent authors who have, are William Burroughs, Vladimir Nabokov, Francesca Lia Block, and, um... I can't think of any more offhand...

I understand that. I fully support Lit rules. But, I am talking about publication. I have two parameters to work within. First, I wanna make sure I'm legal. I'm pretty sure I am, with what I intend to do. Second, I want to make sure this is suitable for massmarket. That may be a narrower tolerance.

I want to stay as true to the nature of what originally came out of my brain as I can, and still appeal to a larger audience than if I wrote it without some concern for sensibilities. I want to keep the kink, but make it acceptable to more people.

I originally wrote this story for my own jollies. Now, I want to try my hand at real publication. This is the most marketable story of my three. I hate changing it at all, but if it is my intent to make some money, I've gotta slave for the masses. That's just the way it is. I could leave it really hard-core and pitch it as 'erotica', but then it would have a narrower readership. I wanna try to slip it in as paranormal romance, which is a fast growing market compared to some other genre of romance or general fiction.