Larry Elder's 10 unsayable things in America.

[WriterDom]

Would you agree, or not? Is Larry Elder a racist? Would you read his book?

[1] Blacks are more racist than whites.

[2] White condescension to blacks is no less damaging than black racism.

[3] The media have a liberal bias.

[4] The glass ceiling has a lot of holes in it.

[5] The big social problem is illegitimacy - not discrimination, not crime-ridden neighborhoods, not bad schools, but fatherless families.

[6] There's no health-care crisis.

[7] The welfare-driven "nanny state" does more harm than good.

[8] Republicans and Democrats - there really is a difference.

[9] We're losing the war against drugs, and ought to legalize them.

(10) Gun control is a fraud

 

[Cherry]

I wouldn't read his book ... I can't say I agree with any of those excerpts.

He sounds like a racist, to me.

 

[Nogard]

I hate to tell you this but Larry Elders is a black man. You should listen to his radio program and listen to his explanations of the statements quoted. His main point is that blacks have to take reponsibility to get things changed and not depend on the white establishment to do it for them.

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Would you agree, or not? Is Larry Elder a racist? Would you read his book?

[1] Blacks are more racist than whites.

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, nuff said

[2] White condescension to blacks is no less damaging than black racism.

True

[3] The media have a liberal bias.

CNN

[4] The glass ceiling has a lot of holes in it.

Republicans

[5] The big social problem is illegitimacy - not discrimination, not crime-ridden neighborhoods, not bad schools, but fatherless families.

true

[6] There's no health-care crisis.

true and false

[7] The welfare-driven "nanny state" does more harm than good.

True

[8] Republicans and Democrats - there really is a difference.

not always

[9] We're losing the war against drugs, and ought to legalize them.

true

(10) Gun control is a fraud

true

 

[Weevil]

Is he racist? I don't really know the man. Would I read his book? No. I mean, I'm sure you guys think that anyone who blindly repeats neo-con crap is being really daring but is there anything on that list that Rush Limbaugh hasn't said? Or AJ?

 

[Thumper]

Is he racist? I don't really know the man. Would I read his book? No. I mean, I'm sure you guys think that anyone who blindly repeats neo-con crap is being really daring but is there anything on that list that Rush Limbaugh hasn't said? Or AJ?

Nope...these statements are all part of the mantra they keep repeating. Not a single original thought or solution proposed, just bitching about the other side.

All but the last two are opinion. Not quantifiable.

The war on drugs is stupid. "Gun Control" is one of the phrases the ultra-conservative right uses to fan the flames of their cause. Simple measures to keep guns away from felons and nutcases are viewed as "infringements"

Because Elder is a black man we should buy into his line of thinking that much quicker? Isn't that condescending?

 

[Cherry]

I hate to tell you this but Larry Elders is a black man.

It doesn't matter to me what color he is ... he still sounds racist.

Reverse-racism isn't anymore acceptable than the other.

 

[Weevil]

Reverse-racism isn't anymore acceptable than the other.

Just because it's a pet peeve but there is no term more idiotic than "reverse racism". Racism means just that, If a black man says "I hate white people" then it's racist. Not reverse racism.

 

[Cherry]

I stand corrected...agreed.

 

[BigDawg69]

Nope...these statements are all part of the mantra they keep repeating. Not a single original thought or solution proposed, just bitching about the other side.

All but the last two are opinion. Not quantifiable.

The war on drugs is stupid. "Gun Control" is one of the phrases the ultra-conservative right uses to fan the flames of their cause. Simple measures to keep guns away from felons and nutcases are viewed as "infringements"

Because Elder is a black man we should buy into his line of thinking that much quicker? Isn't that condescending?

THumper's right, it is one thing to make statements like this (probably done so just to sell more books so he can "break the glass cieling") Quite another to offer real world solutions . . .

 

[Quiet_Cool]

Racist?

If he wrote an entire book on the subject we're discussing, then who are we to say he is or isn't racist based on these ten things above alone? Basically, who cares if he's a racist?
It doesn't sound like many people here are reading the book, so who is he actually influencing?

 

[Thumper]

If it's Glass Ceiling ya want

Just look no further than Sherron Watkins from the Enron fiasco.

Sure she rose to a prominent position but look at how she was treated before the collapse. She was one of the few who warned of the impending collapse and even even offered some solutions. What did she get? She was transferred, almost fired and basically ignored by the principal parties involved. All men. Everything she foretold came true.

But who can blame them she was just a woman after all.

I would imagine Cheyenne being like Ms.Watkins and that is why I like her. Smart and willing to make a stand.

 

[PainSlut]

I must admit till I read this post I didn't even know the name of Larry Elder... but from 10
phrases I know I cannot determine his motives, beliefs and intentions. I'd actually have to read
his book to be able to say one way or the other.

 

[zantac666]

I agree with some of them but.

fatherless families not all are bad i grew up with out a father from the time i was 10. my father was killed in viet nam. I'm a good man i try to be nice to everyone give the respect i would want from them.

republicans think they are gods and know everything and they use ther religion to scare people. while demecrats thing they can run the country better but they just fake it.

Until you get rid of parties things will stay the same

 

[zantac666]

Forgot

War on drugs hell yes we are losing take these small farms that the government bails out every year and turn them into pot farms then sell it like cigeretts behind he counter at a drug store. like canada they sell codine when you ask for it at the counter.

 

[BigDawg69]

I think perhaps in a society of 250+million souls from every country and culture in the world, living a life at the peak of technological advances known to man it is quite impossible to solve any social problems with a sweeping statement or law. Are fatherless families the cause for social disorder? No, are fatherless families worse than having a father figure? Well what if the father is abusive to the mother and kids? Then probably no father is better.

I think maybe one could make equally valid and similar retorts to each of Mr. Elder's statements. We are individuals. Oour history, our family, our beliefs, our goals, each as different as our faces. To that end no "ALL BLACKS ARE RACISTS" or "ALL FATHERLESS KIDS ARE CRIMINALS" statements will always be false, and any legislation based on such specious argumentation will befall the same loosing scenario as our current anti-drug laws, and be unenforceable and useless.

 

[Tyrael]

I think perhaps in a society of 250+million souls from every country and culture in the world, living a life at the peak of technological advances known to man it is quite impossible to solve any social problems with a sweeping statement or law. Are fatherless families the cause for social disorder? No, are fatherless families worse than having a father figure? Well what if the father is abusive to the mother and kids? Then probably no father is better.

I think maybe one could make equally valid and similar retorts to each of Mr. Elder's statements. We are individuals. Oour history, our family, our beliefs, our goals, each as different as our faces. To that end no "ALL BLACKS ARE RACISTS" or "ALL FATHERLESS KIDS ARE CRIMINALS" statements will always be false, and any legislation based on such specious argumentation will befall the same loosing scenario as our current anti-drug laws, and be unenforceable and useless.

Yes, but that doesn't stop people from wanting laws like that. I don't usually get how some people seem to think that all violence on the face of the Earth stems from one cause. Blaming it on tv, video games, movies, pornography, guns etc.

About these people who say kids with no fathers are bad news. Having the ability to make a child does not a parent make. Maybe we should change it to parents who make no effort to be in the child's life or know what their child is doing are bad news. It's appalling to me that the most important job in the world - parenting - requires no training whatsoever.

The comment about Mr Elders being black so what he says is not racist makes me wonder. Why can't a black man be racist? It was like the fact that the person who wrote the book was black was supposed to make me say : "Hmm these comments might have been racist had a white male said them but since it was a black man they are A-ok!" It doesn't work that way.

 

[zantac666]

Yes

Yes, but that doesn't stop people from wanting laws like that. I don't usually get how some people seem to think that all violence on the face of the Earth stems from one cause. Blaming it on tv, video games, movies, pornography, guns etc.

About these people who say kids with no fathers are bad news. Having the ability to make a child does not a parent make. Maybe we should change it to parents who make no effort to be in the child's life or know what their child is doing are bad news. It's appalling to me that the most important job in the world - parenting - requires no training whatsoever.

The comment about Mr Elders being black so what he says is not racist makes me wonder. Why can't a black man be racist? It was like the fact that the person who wrote the book was black was supposed to make me say : "Hmm these comments might have been racist had a white male said them but since it was a black man they are A-ok!" It doesn't work that way.

I agree with you even with the parenting part. And when a person says they are not racist they are a little everyone is racist it"s all on how you use it by saying words or act on it.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Just because it's a pet peeve but there is no term more idiotic than "reverse racism". Racism means just that, If a black man says "I hate white people" then it's racist. Not reverse racism.

There are really two conceptions of racism that seem to get confused. The first is the basic definition that you allude to that defines racism is simply "the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others". (dictionary.com)

But while that idea of racism is condemned, there's a clear distinction in the public mind based on the particular power relationship between the racist and the group he considers to be inferior. Racism by a group with more power toward members of a race with less power is considered more egregious than the reverse because racism can only have its effect if the racist has the power to act on his beliefs. This second definition could be summarized by the formula:

Racist ideas + Power = Racism

From this perspective then, "reverse racism" really is a different creature from the racism defined above. "Reverse racism" meets the requirement for racist ideas, but not for power, so it isn't really racism (or so the argument goes).

This disctinction explains the differential offensiveness of the words "nigger" and "honkey". A white calling a black "nigger" is widely considered a moral affront, but a black calling a white "honkey" isn't nearly as much. Minorities are given more leeway to have racist ideas because they lack the power to enact the broad institutional wrongs that racism by majorities have (see slavery, the holocaust, etc.)

In the end, though, I agree with you. The best way to minimize harms from racism is to apply social sanctions against it uniformly, not to punish it in some cases and to excuse it in others.

 

[Cheyenne]

Re: If it's Glass Ceiling ya want

Just look no further than Sherron Watkins from the Enron fiasco.

Sure she rose to a prominent position but look at how she was treated before the collapse. She was one of the few who warned of the impending collapse and even even offered some solutions. What did she get? She was transferred, almost fired and basically ignored by the principal parties involved. All men. Everything she foretold came true.

But who can blame them she was just a woman after all.

I would imagine Cheyenne being like Ms.Watkins and that is why I like her. Smart and willing to make a stand.

Thank you, Thumper. I think anyone who has been in the business world for as long as I have has had to do this once or twice. I have to be able to sleep at night. If I'm asked to do something I know is flat out wrong, I won't do it. I can only think of two situations that really fit that scenario in the last 20+ years though. Facts just aren't usually that black and white.

 

[Nogard]

Apparently none of you have ever heard his speak. You are making value judgements based on a phrase with no clarification of what the man was trying to get across. Narrow minded attitudes like this are one of the things that are polarizing this country. If you want to here him clarify some of these statements, he can be heard on KABC out of LA. He is on from 3-7 daily. It will stream over the internet

 

[Unclebill]

Originally posted by Thumper
Nope...these statements are all part of the mantra they keep repeating. Not a single original thought or solution proposed, just bitching about the other side.

You really should do an objective evaluation of the propaganda and rhetoric you spout from the left. What has been stated is objectively demonstrable truth. But of course, being ascribed to the collectivist mentality, that's not admissible, is it.

Originally posted by Thumper
All but the last two are opinion. Not quantifiable.

As long as you rely on your fantasies of collectivism, they are only opinion and thus discountable. With Goldberg's book released recently, the proof of #3 is there. But then of course, proof is not what you want. It gets in the way of your propaganda.

Originally posted by Thumper
The war on drugs is stupid. "Gun Control" is one of the phrases the ultra-conservative right uses to fan the flames of their cause. Simple measures to keep guns away from felons and nutcases are viewed as "infringements"

Nice going. Once again, the ad hominem attack. You can't refute the argument so label the proponents as nutcases. You're showing your collectivist colors admirably and making the case for your argument in typical Liberal fashion, i. e., personal attacks vice intellectual ammunition.

You completely ignore the fact that they are in fact infringements because the efforts are directed against honest, law abiding people who are inconvenienced by these idiotic laws which do nothing. A criminal will always be able to find a gun if he wants one. It is only the honest man who is prevented from exercising a legitimate right by prohibition laws.

Why is it the liberal mentality is to punish the innocent while ignoring the truth that the laws they propose have no deterrence for the criminals? The fact that their laws put innocent people in greater danger seems to escape those who buy into the propaganda and dogma. Look at the results of Australia's gun ban if you're interested in facts. But then, fact or reality is not your interest or concern, is it. http://www.geocities.com/john_galt76/AussieGunCon.html

Originally posted by Thumper
Because Elder is a black man we should buy into his line of thinking that much quicker? Isn't that condescending?

Just buy into a line of thinking instead of regurgitating the collectivist propaganda.

Originally posted by BigDawg69
THumper's right, it is one thing to make statements like this (probably done so just to sell more books so he can "break the glass cieling") Quite another to offer real world solutions . . .

He's not the only one making them. But he is a man who has taken responsibility for his own life and succeeded as have men like Walter WIlliams, Thomas Sowell, Ward Connerly, Clarence Thomas, etc. They are looked down upon by many people because they have NOT relied on Affirmative Action and other condescending liberal political ideas to succeed. They didn't worship at the racist altar of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, et al, to succeed. They earned it unlike the two most prominent self-anointed black leaders.

Jackson has proven himself to be a hypocrite yet many people flock to follow him. What can that say of their self-respect and personal integrity? And Sharpton attained his notoriety as a result of his criminal actions. Yet people look to him as a leader. I really question the integrity and honesty of anyone who sees him as anything other than a horrible example of the worst of humanity.

Why does such a large majority of the black community (approximately 80%-90%) blindly follow these people and their like instead of the members of their community who epitomize the potential for the great success America offers anyone regardless of race or other considerations? What does it say of a man who chooses Al Sharpton over Clarence Thomas as a role model?

Originally posted by Nogard
Apparently none of you have ever heard his speak. You are making value judgements based on a phrase with no clarification of what the man was trying to get across. Narrow minded attitudes like this are one of the things that are polarizing this country. If you want to here him clarify some of these statements, he can be heard on KABC out of LA. He is on from 3-7 daily. It will stream over the internet

While I have not heard Elders directly, I've heard all but #4 from at least one other source, all of which are credible. As to what polarizes the country, it is specifically the practices employed very persistently and consistently by the Democrats/Liberals in their public proclamations and advertising. They have no compunction at all when it comes to lying or misrepresenting for their political gains; the collectivist principle, the end justifies the means; truth is whatever advances the political goals of the collective. The entire Democrat success of the last 30 years is orchestrated by Balkanizing America and pitting one faction against another; black vs. white, majority vs minority, rich vs poor, etc. Reasoned, honest people don't use such vicious manipulations to attain their goals. An honest man proposes his goal and lets it succeed on its merit.

 

[Weevil]

If you don't mind though Bill, ignoring the debatable truth of each of the ten points, wouldn't you at least agree that these things are not only sayable in american but have been said Ad Nauseum?

As to Goldberg's book I'd say that, without actually arguing the point, his book was a complete an utter failure in attempting to proove a conclusive liberal bias in the media.

As to arguing the point, republican presidential candidates have recieved a majority of newspaper endorsements since 1932.

 

[WriterDom]

As to arguing the point, republican presidential candidates have recieved a majority of newspaper endorsements since 1932.

A poll of democrat presidential candidate's wives showed less than half endorsed their husband's campaigns since 1932. They had some real losers.

There is no bias. At FOX anyway.

 

[Thumper]

Hey Bill

Originally posted by Thumper
The war on drugs is stupid. "Gun Control" is one of the phrases the ultra-conservative right
uses to fan the flames of their cause. Simple measures to keep guns away from felons and
nutcases are viewed as "infringements"

Originally quoted by Unclebill Nice going. Once again, the ad hominem attack. You can't refute the argument so label the proponents as
nutcases. You're showing your collectivist colors admirably and making the case for your argument in typical Liberal
fashion, i. e., personal attacks vice intellectual ammunition.

You completely ignore the fact that they are in fact infringements because the efforts are directed against honest,
law abiding people who are inconvenienced by these idiotic laws which do nothing. A criminal will always be able to
find a gun if he wants one. It is only the honest man who is prevented from exercising a legitimate right by
prohibition laws.

Do you actually understand anything you read? I was not referring to gun control opponents as nutcases. I was referring to less than mentally stable individuals that try to obtain guns.

No wonder you don't get it.

An inconvenience is not a punishment. Taking a drivers test is an inconvenience and it is necessary. Passing the Bar exam is an inconvenience and I would say it is necessary. Passing the medical boards is an inconvenience but is it unnecessary? Wanna fly in a plane flown by someone that didn't go through the "inconvenience" of being certified?

Just what is wrong with having to pass a background check to get a deadly weapon? Do I want the three times convicted wife beater next door to be able to walk into Wal-Mart and pick up some underwear a case of motor oil and uh Oh yeah how about a 44 Magnum and a box of cartridges.

You are right a criminal will always be able to get a gun. But why make it easy?