Land of the Free solves the Easy Entry Problem? the1800 towers

Pure

Fiel a Verdad
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Boeing Wins Deal For Border Security

By Griff Witte

Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 20, 2006; Page A01

Aerospace and defense giant Boeing Co. has won a multibillion-dollar contract to revamp how the United States guards about 6,000 miles of border in an attempt to curb illegal immigration, congressional sources said yesterday.

Boeing's proposal relied heavily on a network of 1,800 towers, most of which would need to be erected along the borders with Mexico and Canada. Each tower would be equipped with a variety of sensors, including cameras and heat and motion detectors.

The company's efforts would be the basis of the government's latest attempt to control U.S. borders after a series of failures. The contract, part of the Secure Border Initiative and known as SBInet, will again test the ability of technology to solve a problem that lawmakers have called a critical national security concern. This time, the private sector is being given an unusually large say in how to do it.

Boeing sold its plan to the Homeland Security Department as less risky and less expensive than competing proposals that would have relied heavily on drones for routine surveillance work. Boeing plans only limited use of small unmanned aerial vehicles that could be launched from the backs of Border Patrol trucks when needed to help pursue suspects.

The system is to be installed first along the Mexican border in an area south of Tucson known to be a key crossing point for illegal immigrants. The company has said it can deploy the system along both borders within three years.

The public announcement of the award is planned for tomorrow. Several congressional and industry sources yesterday confirmed that Boeing had defeated four other companies in one of the most closely watched and intensely fought contract competitions this year. The sources spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the competition. Homeland Security spokesman Larry Orluskie said the department was "really close" to making an award.

Boeing officials declined to comment, pending official notification. In an interview this month, Boeing executive Wayne Esser said that despite the company's aviation experience, it wanted to keep its border surveillance systems on the ground. "The aerial platform just goes off the map from a cost standpoint," he said.

Homeland Security has been criticized harshly in recent years for initiatives that have either failed or far exceeded their budgets. In one case, cameras that the department installed on the borders broke down in bad weather.

"The administration has spent $429 million of the taxpayer's money to try and secure our borders with two already-abandoned border security programs," said Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-Miss). He expressed concern that the same thing will happen to SBInet.

Mindful of that record, Boeing emphasized that all its technology has been proven to work. "The low-risk approach is probably going to carry weight here," Esser said.

From the beginning, department officials told industry leaders that they wanted immediate results. The contract proposed giving the private sector wide latitude in helping U.S. Customs and Border Protection figure out the right combination of technology, infrastructure and personnel needed to stop immigrants, terrorists and criminals from illegally crossing into the United States.

Deputy Homeland Security Secretary Michael P. Jackson said this year that he wanted the companies "to come back and tell us how to do our business."
 
Buy Boeing stock.

Can anyone say Maintenance Contract?

1800 towers out in the field... dealing with people, weather, regular mechanical failure!
 
Are these towers going to include, like, Death Lasers and things? :cool:
 
3113 said:
Are these towers going to include, like, Death Lasers and things? :cool:
You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads! Now evidently my cycloptic colleague informs me that that cannot be done. Ah, would you remind me what I pay you people for, honestly? Throw me a bone here! What do we have?
 
odd,

it appears that the creative technological geeks at Boeing have not heard of (covered) trucks. :p

===

doing some math here: assume 2/3 of the towers are for the southern border, which is an item of more concern. That's 1200 towers for something like 1200 miles. So it appears there's a tower every mile or so. That's a fuckova lot of towers!

BUY BOEING!
 
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Pure said:
Each tower would be equipped with a variety of sensors, including cameras and heat and motion detectors.
No machineguns? What kind of wimpy-ass border guard tower doesn't have machineguns? We need some Cuban, North Korean, and Iranian security specialists on this job.

Solution to border hysteria:
1. Build an Israeli wall on the Southern border.
2. Hand out unlimited work permits to anyone who wants to enter for that purpose.



(I like the Israeli wall, actually. It just sits there passively. I don't care if it's not perfectly effective - it raises the bar, which as long as the work permits part is in effect, makes it easier to prevent entry by those who want to get it to do something bad.)
 
This is pretty kewl, actually. With this system INS can watch all the "illegals" crossing the border.

But I thought the idea was to stop them(?) :confused:
 
Jenny_Jackson said:
This is pretty kewl, actually. With this system INS can watch all the "illegals" crossing the border.

But I thought the idea was to stop them(?) :confused:
That's why they've gotta have death lasers!
 
I suspect that this system will soon be used to keep people in as much as it keeps others out.

Anyway, all the illegal stuff comes in a border checkpoints anyway, hidden in other things and with proper documentation. Can't see this 'wall' changing that much.

We are sooo in love with technology, aren't we? And like all people in love we're blind to its faults.
 
I don't know...

It would seem to me we have the technology to do this without the towers. Example, Area 51. Step over the line deliniated by the signs that tell you to go no further and there is a car load of armed men telling you to lay on the ground. So, why the towers.
 
since America is now awash in prisoners, more than most other countries except for China, perhaps 'work details' of them could do this apprehension or 'neutralizing' of wetbacks and desert runners.

an added benefit might be that numbers of these cons would escape to mexico, helping to redress the inbalance of flow at present.
 
math question.

for the initial cost and maintenance of one tower,

how many illegal families could be fed and housed and their kids given college educations?
 
rgraham666 said:
Anyway, all the illegal stuff comes in a border checkpoints anyway, hidden in other things and with proper documentation. Can't see this 'wall' changing that much.
Hey! Those towers and wall are going to have x-ray machines! And robots. I have faith in technology. It will solve all our problems.
 
Zeb_Carter said:
I don't know...

It would seem to me we have the technology to do this without the towers. Example, Area 51. Step over the line deliniated by the signs that tell you to go no further and there is a car load of armed men telling you to lay on the ground. So, why the towers.
I'll take a wild guess that A51 style security is way frickin' expensive.
 
Pure said:
for the initial cost and maintenance of one tower,

how many illegal families could be fed and housed and their kids given college educations?

$2.1B is the size of the Boeing contract / 1800 towers = $1,166,666 per tower

$1.167M / $100K per family = 11.67 families*

*does not include ongoing maintenance of the tower
 
rgraham666 said:
I suspect that this system will soon be used to keep people in as much as it keeps others out.

You mean all those Hollywood liberals who are always promising to leave if they don't get their way?

We should be so lucky.

(I'll kick in for their bus fare.)
 
Pure said:
for the initial cost and maintenance of one tower,

how many illegal families could be fed and housed and their kids given college educations?
Answer: None. They come here to work and make a better life, not to collect welfare.

I am outraged that you insinuate the latter. (I'll get over it, though.)
 
Pure said:
since America is now awash in prisoners, more than most other countries except for China, perhaps 'work details' of them could do this apprehension or 'neutralizing' of wetbacks and desert runners.

an added benefit might be that numbers of these cons would escape to mexico, helping to redress the inbalance of flow at present.
China has 1.4 billion prisoners. Are there that many here?
 
P: [for the price of one tower] how many illegal families could be fed and housed and their kids given college educations?

R: Answer: None. They come here to work and make a better life, not to collect welfare.

P: OK, true enough. How many families then could be given health insurance, low interest mortgage for their first home, and guaranteed college education for the kids?

--
Note: I'm speaking, in another posting, of number of prisoners per capita, not absolute numbers.
 
I was thinking, "Why towers instead of drones, as other contractors proposed?"

Can anyone venture a guess. An answer came to me.

---
Prisoner according to Wikip

In absolute terms, the United States currently has the largest inmate population in the world, with more than 2 million [2] in prison and jails. In 2002, both Russia and China also had prison populations in excess of 1 million [1] [3].

As a percentage of total population, Rwanda has the largest prison population as of 2002, with more than 100,000 (of a total population of around 8 million), largely as a result of the 1994 genocide.

The United States is second largest in relative numbers with 486 prisoners per 100,000 of population, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, also making it the largest in relative numbers amongst developed countries). New Zealand has the second highest prison population per capita amongst developed countries, with 169 prisoners per 100,000.

In 2003, the United Kingdom had 73,000 inmates in its facilities, with France and Germany having a similar number.
====
Slightly better source:

http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/statistics/statistics30.htm
International Review of Crime Statistics

In 2001 the average per capita rate of [UK] prison population was 87 per 100,000. The highest level was in England & Wales where it was 129 prisoners per 100,000 population, followed by Portugal (128) and Scotland (120). Higher rates were to be found outside the EU - most notably in the US (689 per 100K), Russia (673) and some Eastern European countries (eg 370 in Latvia).
 
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Pure said:
P: [for the price of one tower] how many illegal families could be fed and housed and their kids given college educations?

R: Answer: None. They come here to work and make a better life, not to collect welfare.

P: OK, true enough. How many families then could be given health insurance, low interest mortgage for their first home, and guaranteed college education for the kids?
Same answer - they don't want to be "given" anything. They are proud people who want to make it on their own and contribute. With that attitude they will, too.
 
OMG OMG OGM!!! I've had a total brain storm!!!

Why doesn't Bush import Terrorists from Iraq to plant UED's (or whatever you call them) along the border? That sorta solves two problems right there They would do it for free and we could cut the budget drastically. :D
 
Jenny_Jackson said:
OMG OMG OGM!!! I've had a total brain storm!!!

Why doesn't Bush import Terrorists from Iraq to plant UED's (or whatever you call them) along the border? That sorta solves two problems right there They would do it for free and we could cut the budget drastically. :D
What make you think we need to "import" terrorists? (I think they're willing to get here all on their own.) ;) :devil:


(Getting them to plant the bombs where "we" want them vs where they want them might be a different matter, however.)


(I have a few suggestions of my own regarding where those bombs should go . . .)
 
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