Lack of punctuation

[Whispersecret]

Being mainly poetically illiterate, I would like to be enlightened. I have been reading much more poetry on this board lately, and I can't help but notice how few commas, periods, etc. are included. Instead, writers seem to substitute with line breaks. Is it standard for unmetered, unrhymed poetry to be devoid of punctuation?

In my untutored view, it seems as though, besides being a tool that writers must use to facilitate reading, punctuation should be used to enhance what is written.

But perhaps I'm glorifying those miniscule pixels beyond what is necessary. Maybe it's just because I'm a teacher and proper mechanics is in my blood.

 

[daughter]

punctuation is wonderful tool

that often is foresaken by the novice, WS.

Line breaks, in my opinion, are a poor substitute for poetry sans punctuation particularily if the poet hasn't mastered the skill of line breaking.

Unfortunately, the illiterate poet mistakenly reads a lot of contemporary poetry where this is prevelant and assumes that it's okay not to punctuate. However, you and I know that punctuation is like road map signals. They help us to slow down, stop, accentuate something in a read.

I am not oppose to syntax-free poetry. What concerns me is failure to learn what is appropriate and most effective in any given work. In truth, there is quite a bit of contemporary poetry where the poets do use punctuation. In fact, I'd argue more use it than don't. And that tells you something about what our online peers are reading. Pick up any anthology.


Good topic. Glad you brought up. Too many think I'm anal as it is.

Peace,

daughter


p.s. I studied to teach. I envy you.

 

[Whispersecret]

It's funny that you bring up sonnets. I've been coughing up one of my own, and I wonder, is a sonnet still a sonnet if you break the lines differently than is the norm?

I freely admit I have studied little. I read little print-published poetry. Most of what I know about poetic form I've gotten from the first fifty pages of my rhyming dictionary.

I've got the five beat, da-DA rhythm going. (Forgive my lack of technical lingo.) I have fourteen lines, an ABAB, CDCD, EFEF, GH rhyming pattern. Do I have the freedom to break the lines and still keep it a sonnet? What are the reasons one should break lines, besides to separate thoughts?

 

[Unmasked Poet]

Sonnets

Yes you can break the lines, although that is bucking tradition. Many newer sonnet writers do this adopting a more free verse structure. To me it is just another variation on a theme.

The line breaks can be used for a variety of effects, primarly when it is done in "free verse sonnets" it is used to:

Create a alternate rhythm within the rhyme pattern.

Try the line breaks, measure the feel of it visual and oral,
then post it and get some opinions.

U.P.

 

[Whispersecret]

I'm getting opinions from Gaucho (not a poet) and KM (a self-proclaimed dabbler), but I'd love some more. Any volunteers?

 

[Dillinger]

The skill of line breaking:
------------------------------------

a stirring
a starting
a seedling
still sleeping
a word at the tongue's tip
unheard ............. inaudible
incomparable
fertile ......................... arid
ageless
she buried with open eyes
blameless ............... promiscuous
the word
speechless ........... nameless

-------------------------

This also demonstrates my frustrations with the limitations of not only posting here in the boards but submitting poesm to Lit. The "..........." represents blank space... there should be approximately that much space between the words...

The second line "a starting" should start exactly as if it was immediately after the first line "a stirring" but on the line below. Likewise for "still sleeping" - should be spaces to happen beyond "a seedling" but on the line below.

"incomparible" as if it was right after "unheard" but the line below... ("inaudible is above "incomparible" on the same line as "unheard with the first letter - "i" - right aove the "r" in in comparible.

The words "fertile" and "arid are on the same line. "fertile" is left justified. "arid" is right after the last letter of "incomparabile" but on the line below.

"ageless" is centered.

"blameless" and "promiscuous" on the same line.

"the word" occurs right afte "blameless" but on the line below and ends just before "promiscuous on the line above.

"speechless" and "nameless" on the same line and, in a truly inspired/brilliant move - "the word" on the line above starts right after "speechless" and ends right before "nameless" making "the word" perfectly symetrically centered between the line before and the line after.

"the word" --- *grin*

Write it all out - it won't take long... and look at it as it should appear as opposed to the way I had to post it here.

Bonus points for anyone who knows the poet who wrote these words.

 

[Dillinger]

BTW - while I don't expect to be able to do any kind of advanced formatting - if anyone can tell me what formatting is possible and how to submit a poem that includes formatting I would certainly appreciate it.

I have a poem that I would like to submit but it requites the indenting of a couple of lines. Fairly basic. Is that possible?

 

[mskittykatt]

formatting is in the submission guidelines, make a note with your writing telling them what you need otherwise specific formatting will be stripped.

 

[Dillinger]

Thanks - I guess I could try that - I am a bit concerned that without seeing the final result before its posted that it could lose something in the translation and not appear properly...

I'll try though... thanks.

 

[Dillinger]

Looks like people lost interest in this particular topic - or have said all they need to. However, I hate leaving loose ends...

The poet is Octavio Paz. Its an excerpt from "Blanco" - quite a long work. His way with words never fails to amaze and astound me... to move me like no other writer.

"Blanco" is an excellent example to illustrate some of the discussion in this thread. The typography and format of the original edition of "Blanco" were meant to emphasize not so much the presence of the text but the space that sustains it: that which makes writing and reading possible, that in which all writing and reading end...

It also happens to be a treatise on Tantra... each image self contained and discrete - and only truly understanable in relation to the other lines (written and unwritten).

Paz is considered by most to be Latin America's greatest surrealist poet. Even his writings about himself and about poetry are ripe with imagery and insight... "God has sent me as a messenger/I am transformed into a poem." and "words that are flowers that are fruits that are acts" - incredibly a statement that is equally at home in surrealist imagery or the Aztec brotherhood of poets.

BTW - Paz won the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1990.

 

[Dillinger]

Ooops... double post. Sorry.

 

[Ded Poet]

the difference between good writing and bad writing is not determined by mechanics although mechanics or lack thereof is a factor as is everything else. one question is can we surrender.
can we trust the author who paddles without an oar? there is some great prose as well as poetry that breaks with convention, sometimes almost completely. take a look a gertrude stein's wonderful essay 'What Are Master-pieces and Why are Are There so Few of Them' (first published in 1940, reprinted in 'the Best American Essays of the Century--Joyce Carol Oates, ed).

Frank McCourt deftly managed to write a rich memoir full of dialogue without recourse to quotation marks, and it quickly begins to feel like their inclusion would have been unnecessary clutter in this case.

The question then becomes not, "Did this author follow the rules?" but rather, "Did she know what she was doing--and if so, is the decision (to include or not include) justified?"