Kony 2012

[JMohegan]

Conspiracy theories...good gravy.

I will happily engage JM in debate because at least he stays in the realm of facts and tangible proof. Sorry but I can't say the same for you.

It's not a conspiracy theory. It's the way the world works. Check this out:

http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/.../20111014152016su0.6294934.html#axzz1ouErHalZ

See that phrase "regional stability"? That is code for an expression of US national interest. One that begins with: omg, look they found oil.

Mike is absolutely correct when he says that "foreign entities always back the bad guy who best serves their interests." That could be the subtitle of a tome on The Foreign Policy History of the United States, I'm sorry to say.

Back to the oil on the Uganda/Congo border. Why would the Pentagon so readily agree to send US troops to wander the jungles of Central Africa? As the guy in this article says, "Most obviously, the jockeying is for positions."

Right. Jockeying among corrupt local leaders... jockeying among oil-hungry world powers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/26/world/africa/uganda-welcomes-oil-but-fears-graft-it-attracts.html

And check this out. What a fucking surprise!

"..and China's Cnooc Ltd. (CEO) have expressed interest in investing in the refinery"

http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2012/03/12/uganda-set-to-demarcate-land-for-oil-refinery-report/

 

[JMohegan]

Let's get some John Pilger documentaries to go viral ...how do we make that happen???

Ha. When John Pilger creates a documentary that makes defeating the bad guys seem super fun, super cool, & super easy... then he'll go viral.

Until then, yeah, good luck with that.

 

[mikesaysno]

Wow~
I’m curious~ what are you trying to protect with all that anger?

That is wretched behavior but admittedly, you are not dumb as dog shit! Congrats.

If you want the idealistic answer, it's a hope that if more people get angry we can protect the truth. In 2003 I marched down the city streets behind a banner that said "No War for Oil" - which admittedly was naive because there were many other factors at play besides oil...nevertheless, trying to explain to people that WMD was a distortion was always met with vitriol and accusation: You're a fucking conspiracy theorist blah blah. If I could go back ten years I would be having that conversation much more forcefully. I no longer give a fuck about polite discourse.

Innocent people die when gullible people are given breathing space. I don't know about you but that's worth a bit of anger in my opinion.

You want to try and browbeat me with slimy psycho babble? Fine, I'm an angry, angry man. I've come to terms with it.

For anyone else with hurt feelings, here...I hope this cheers you up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lg51dzWHJE

 

[mikesaysno]

...............

 

[Keroin]

It's not a conspiracy theory. It's the way the world works. Check this out:

Yes, yes, JM, I am well aware of how the world works in that regard. Believe me, I had no illusions about why your country went into Iraq.

Perhaps it was a misread on my part. I took this...

I wish I could identify the Pentagon's exact motives for the Kony campaign.

...to mean that Mike was suggesting the Pentagon was behind this current "Kony 2012" campaign (since that is the topic being discussed. In other words, using IC as puppets to carry out their nefarious plans.

If that wasn't the meaning, my apologies.

And I'd love to stick around and let him insult me further but I have work to do.

 

[JMohegan]

Yes, yes, JM, I am well aware of how the world works in that regard. Believe me, I had no illusions about why your country went into Iraq.

Perhaps it was a misread on my part. I took this...



...to mean that Mike was suggesting the Pentagon was behind this current "Kony 2012" campaign (since that is the topic being discussed. In other words, using IC as puppets to carry out their nefarious plans.

If that wasn't the meaning, my apologies.

And I'd love to stick around and let him insult me further but I have work to do.

Good lord, Keroin. How many times do I have to post on this thread, directly to you, with links to reputable sources, the fact that the Pentagon's Kony campaign PREDATES the kony 2012 facile fantasy film?

 

[mikesaysno]

.....................................

 

[Keroin]

It is an interesting topic, isn't it? People are very busy, but they have an inclination to help. We no longer have the common national experience of the network news or general interest newspapers to plop these stories down in front of us all in finished, edited chunks (whatever the drawbacks of that model, news was at least vetted in some kind of process). The rumorblast is harder to pin down.

I still love the empowering potential of social media, it's just messier. I suppose this is why we need a daily news snopes, to make it less messy.

I like and respect your energetic inclination to make the world better, Keroin. I think the greater danger to the world is not rashness, but indifference or defeatism. (If you're wrong 25 percent of the time and end up selling puppies into slavery, well then, I'm very sorry, puppies, but no one's perfect. )

Thanks DGE, but you know how I feel about animal abuse.

I doubt anyone can ever defeat my desire to make the world better...as admittedly hopeless as that may be. However, I do try to make informed decisions and use my time and money where it will be most effective. (I won't lie and pretend I haven't kicked in for the odd tear-jerker cause though...sometimes they catch you at a vulnerable moment.)

I've spent several days now reading (yes, JM et al, I have actually been reading what you've written) and researching. Obviously this is a large and complex issue, not easily solved, if at all. There are a ton of organizations that do work either directly or indirectly with child soldiers but through all of them I saw a common set of stated goals/wishes:

1. Provide assistance for liberated child soldiers to help them heal and reintegrate.
2. End the practice of using child soldiers.
3. Encourage regional governments to work together and encourage all countries in the world to legally oppose the use of child soldiers.

As for the Kony 2012 campaign, I don't believe they even need their April 20th venture. Their goal has been achieved. Looking at all the options, from this point on, the organization that makes the most sense to me is Romeo Dallaire's foundation and Child Soldiers Initiative. He's Canadian, he's "been there" and understands the complexities of the situation, and he's someone I admire and someone I believe few can find fault with.

But I'm grateful to IC for bringing this issue to light for me. And I do hope that Kony is captured and faces the charges against him.

Good lord, Keroin. How many times do I have to post on this thread, directly to you, with links to reputable sources, the fact that the Pentagon's Kony campaign PREDATES the kony 2012 facile fantasy film?

Good lord, JM! Six.



Take it easy on me. I just woke up! I was merely explaining that I mixed up what Mike was trying to say. I was admitting my mistake. Yes, I believe that wherever there's oil and poverty and corruptible government, the US won't be far away. Including Uganda.

I misunderstood what Mike wrote in that post. That's all. An honest mistake. I apologize again, to both of you.

 

[JMohegan]

Thanks DGE, but you know how I feel about animal abuse.

I doubt anyone can ever defeat my desire to make the world better...as admittedly hopeless as that may be. However, I do try to make informed decisions and use my time and money where it will be most effective. (I won't lie and pretend I haven't kicked in for the odd tear-jerker cause though...sometimes they catch you at a vulnerable moment.)

I've spent several days now reading (yes, JM et al, I have actually been reading what you've written) and researching. Obviously this is a large and complex issue, not easily solved, if at all. There are a ton of organizations that do work either directly or indirectly with child soldiers but through all of them I saw a common set of stated goals/wishes:

1. Provide assistance for liberated child soldiers to help them heal and reintegrate.
2. End the practice of using child soldiers.
3. Encourage regional governments to work together and encourage all countries in the world to legally oppose the use of child soldiers.

As for the Kony 2012 campaign, I don't believe they even need their April 20th venture. Their goal has been achieved. Looking at all the options, from this point on, the organization that makes the most sense to me is Romeo Dallaire's foundation and Child Soldiers Initiative. He's Canadian, he's "been there" and understands the complexities of the situation, and he's someone I admire and someone I believe few can find fault with.

But I'm grateful to IC for bringing this issue to light for me. And I do hope that Kony is captured and faces the charges against him.



Good lord, JM! Six.



Take it easy on me. I just woke up! I was merely explaining that I mixed up what Mike was trying to say. I was admitting my mistake. Yes, I believe that wherever there's oil and poverty and corruptible government, the US won't be far away. Including Uganda.

I misunderstood what Mike wrote in that post. That's all. An honest mistake. I apologize again, to both of you.

Apology entirely unnecessary, but accepted.

For the record, my guess is that Jason Russell (narrator of the kony 2012 film) sincerely wants to bring Kony to justice, in order to fulfill a promise he made to his friend (the child whose grief is displayed in the film). He may be breathtakingly naive, or he may be taking a lesser of two evils, ends justify the means, approach. Either way, probable good intentions notwithstanding, I don't share your gratitude for the proliferation of this grotesquely over-simplified pablum.

It is also my guess that the President, most members of Congress, and maybe even some Pentagon types, are sincerely outraged and appalled by what Kony has done. Who wouldn't be?

None of that negates the very real possibility that anti-kony fervor has been used, and will be used, as cover by the US government when furthering its perceived strategic interests in Central Africa.

 

[Keroin]

Apology entirely unnecessary, but accepted.

For the record, my guess is that Jason Russell (narrator of the kony 2012 film) sincerely wants to bring Kony to justice, in order to fulfill a promise he made to his friend (the child whose grief is displayed in the film). He may be breathtakingly naive, or he may be taking a lesser of two evils, ends justify the means, approach. Either way, probable good intentions notwithstanding, I don't share your gratitude for the proliferation of this grotesquely over-simplified pablum.

It is also my guess that the President, most members of Congress, and maybe even some Pentagon types, are sincerely outraged and appalled by what Kony has done. Who wouldn't be?

None of that negates the very real possibility that anti-kony fervor has been used, and will be used, as cover by the US government when furthering its perceived strategic interests in Central Africa.

So we'll respectively "agree to disagree" re: the film.

And don't forget, Uganda is not considered Central Africa...as I have learned in my recent studies.

Dumber than dog shit I may be, but I retain a few facts here and there.

 

[YourCaptor]

So we'll respectively "agree to disagree" re: the film.

And don't forget, Uganda is not considered Central Africa...as I have learned in my recent studies.

Dumber than dog shit I may be, but I retain a few facts here and there.

I'm totally with you on this Kay, though I don't much mind if we skip the trial and just remove the fucker from this world.

I think you are awesome for jumping in to help save our neighbors children from evil.

Why there is opposition here I don't understand. Maybe it's like that whole scream fire instead of rape thing.

It is also my guess that the President, most members of Congress, and maybe even some Pentagon types, are sincerely outraged and appalled by what Kony has done. Who wouldn't be?

None of that negates the very real possibility that anti-kony fervor has been used, and will be used, as cover by the US government when furthering its perceived strategic interests in Central Africa.

Out of curiosity, if the president, congress, and some of the pentagon does not constitute the US government then what does?

 

[JMohegan]

Why there is opposition here I don't understand. Maybe it's like that whole scream fire instead of rape thing.

Out of curiosity, if the president, congress, and some of the pentagon does not constitute the US government then what does?

There is opposition here because some of us believe that IC's efforts are likely to cause more harm than good.

Yes, of course the President, Congress, and Pentagon constitute the US government. My point is that government officials can have perfectly natural feelings of outrage over kony's atrocities AND still exploit anti-kony fervor in pursuing unrelated militaristic goals.

 

[Keroin]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/13/kony-2012-invisible-children-new-video/

 

[JMohegan]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/13/kony-2012-invisible-children-new-video/

I'll see your 8 minute Keesey video on IC finances and raise you two links on the far more serious objections (which Keesey never even attempted to address).

Dangerous Ignorance: The Hysteria of Kony 2012

What Jason Did Not Tell the Invisible Children

 

[YourCaptor]

There is opposition here because some of us believe that IC's efforts are likely to cause more harm than good.

Yes, of course the President, Congress, and Pentagon constitute the US government. My point is that government officials can have perfectly natural feelings of outrage over kony's atrocities AND still exploit anti-kony fervor in pursuing unrelated militaristic goals.

So you are suggesting we should disregard Kony 2012 due to a fear of corruption?

 

[JMohegan]

So you are suggesting we should disregard Kony 2012 due to a fear of corruption?

Disregard? Hardly.

I am advocating direct opposition to the facile fix-it message of the IC film.

 

[JMohegan]

Totally agree with you -- it's so good. And high five, we brought JM to Twitter!

In honor of you and DGE, here's my first twitter-sourced contribution to the board. I follow "Reuters Top News," from which feed I discovered the following.

For those interested in the finer points of justice for child soldiers: Historic Verdict Condemns Warlord.

 

[YourCaptor]

Disregard? Hardly.

I am advocating direct opposition to the facile fix-it message of the IC film.

That is pathetic.

Ya know, if you see your neighbor raping his kids and you advocate direct opposition to calling the police for fear of creating another corrupt cop, that is a crime. 3 Years in prison, gives you plenty of time to experience the other side of the coin on that one. May be as close to compassion as some people will get.

 

[JMohegan]

That is pathetic.

Ya know, if you see your neighbor raping his kids and you advocate direct opposition to calling the police for fear of creating another corrupt cop, that is a crime. 3 Years in prison, gives you plenty of time to experience the other side of the coin on that one. May be as close to compassion as some people will get.

If I saw my neighbor raping his kids, I'd rush in to stop it myself. Not because I'd be worried about corruption of cops, but because I'd deem time to be of the essence.

Having said that, your analogy sucks. It's not just one guy doing the "raping", and the crimes are not in our neighborhood but on the other side of the world instead. That doesn't mean we should feel less compassion. But it does mean that our ignorance of realities on the ground renders compassion alone practically useless.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say. I wish the world weren't so fucking complicated, but the truth is that it's never been any other way.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Thanks DGE, but you know how I feel about animal abuse.

I doubt anyone can ever defeat my desire to make the world better...as admittedly hopeless as that may be. However, I do try to make informed decisions and use my time an it will be most effective. (I won't lie and pretend I haven't kicked in for the odd tear-jerker cause though...sometimes they catch you at a vulnerable moment.

Yes, enslaved puppies would not escape your attention.

And good for you. Informed use of the time we have is the best one can do.

In honor of you and DGE, here's my first twitter-sourced contribution to the board. I follow "Reuters Top News," from which feed I discovered the following.

For those interested in the finer points of justice for child soldiers: Historic Verdict Condemns Warlord.

Well, belated fist bump to itw, and thank you for one of the most hopeless sounding hopeful stories yet. Talk about a toothless dog getting down a morsel of dog food. Still, to the people he fucked over (who aren't dead) it's something.

You'll be pinning warlord stuff next!

 

[JMohegan]

You'll be pinning warlord stuff next!

Hey, now. I just mastered the basics of reading tweets! That might be enough technological advancing for me in 2012.




ETA - And yeah, that piece was fucking depressing. As was Clooney's testimony today.

 

[intothewoods]

You'll be pinning warlord stuff next!

http://pinterest.com/pin/193373377720317410/

 

[JMohegan]

http://pinterest.com/pin/193373377720317410/

I can't tell if that was posted as parody, or posted straight up.

 

[intothewoods]

I can't tell if that was posted as parody, or posted straight up.

I knew you were going to say that!

 

[YourCaptor]

If I saw my neighbor raping his kids, I'd rush in to stop it myself. Not because I'd be worried about corruption of cops, but because I'd deem time to be of the essence.

Having said that, your analogy sucks. It's not just one guy doing the "raping", and the crimes are not in our neighborhood but on the other side of the world instead. That doesn't mean we should feel less compassion. But it does mean that our ignorance of realities on the ground renders compassion alone practically useless.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say. I wish the world weren't so fucking complicated, but the truth is that it's never been any other way.

You need to travel. Africa is not that far away.