Silverluna
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Show me where the Consitution says anything about "Seperation of Church and State" ?
(Hint: Good luck finding it)
(Hint: Good luck finding it)
Kicking over an Ant's nest...
- Thread starter Silverluna
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Silverluna
That's Professor to You!
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How ya doing?
Any luck? Doubt it....
Any luck? Doubt it....
Calamity Jane
Reverend Blue Jeans
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lol... used to be one of my favorite arguments.
Silverluna
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pagancowgirl said:
Still is mine....I might not be "christian" , "jewish", ect... but I am religious...and I'm ok with this....
sufisaint
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off the top of my head...the seperation of church and state is a doctorine followed by the court taken from Jefferson's writing...the clause in the Constitution says just the government shall not establish a national religion....cannot remember the exact phrase...been 10 years since law school....
RawHumor
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Silverluna
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Bravo!
BUT.....think about it...carefully....
Jefferson was a brillant man...and I like a lot of what he did...
But it has nothing to do with the Framework of our Gov't. Just someone's writing...not an official Document. I'm not a scholar of Early American politics...but prove me wrong.....come on ... I DARE YOU!!
BUT.....think about it...carefully....
Jefferson was a brillant man...and I like a lot of what he did...
But it has nothing to do with the Framework of our Gov't. Just someone's writing...not an official Document. I'm not a scholar of Early American politics...but prove me wrong.....come on ... I DARE YOU!!
Silverluna
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Where's the Beef?
Ok where's it say "Seperation of church and state"?
All i see if freedom to practice...ect....
RawHumor said:
Ok where's it say "Seperation of church and state"?
All i see if freedom to practice...ect....
sufisaint
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Thomas Jefferson was the most influental Frameworker and author of the Constitution...with help of course and fueds with Alexander Hamilton...... ut the Supreme Court always look to his writings to interpret tconstitution, or at least tey did back when the court actaully cared about following the Constitution....now th just basically make up there own shit based on how much businesses and lobbyist pay their parties money.........
Silverluna
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Yup Yup...
We have isolated the problem...the supreme court is looking in the wrong place!!! HAHAHA!
We have isolated the problem...the supreme court is looking in the wrong place!!! HAHAHA!
Mountain Man
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One Question?
It may not mention the separation of Church and State...
But where does it mention God?
It may not mention the separation of Church and State...
But where does it mention God?
Silverluna
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Yes...Jefferson was very powerful...I respect him and if I had the wit and ect, I'd quote him...but I personally do not.sufisaint said:
Silverluna
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Re: One Question?
*looks* perchance you have a point...lemme consult my cheat sheet...
Mountain Man said:
*looks* perchance you have a point...lemme consult my cheat sheet...
Calamity Jane
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RhumbRunner13
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Re: One Question?
God does not have to be mentioned specifically because the next clause guarantees the right to FREE expression. That would include God, Allah, Moby Dick........
Rhumb
Mountain Man said:
God does not have to be mentioned specifically because the next clause guarantees the right to FREE expression. That would include God, Allah, Moby Dick........
Rhumb
RawHumor
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Here's a better link. The other one was just about the Bill of Rights.
[edit - DOH! Forgot the link]
http://www.law.emory.edu/FEDERAL/usconst.html
[edit - DOH! Forgot the link]
http://www.law.emory.edu/FEDERAL/usconst.html
Last edited:
Silverluna
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mawhaha....
happy happy...I like what I'm seing folks....
And yes Rub, it Does include alll that you mentioned... ('god' wise)
happy happy...I like what I'm seing folks....
And yes Rub, it Does include alll that you mentioned... ('god' wise)
sufisaint
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Since the Supreme Court deviated from the constitution....Started with FDR new deal reforms and his threat to add Supreme Court Justices and pack the court with pro new deal justices, the Supreme court now follows a doctrine(blanking out on its name) that allows them to freely interpret the constitution. This is where our county began to fall apart and we stopped, as a nation being rugged individualist and became mindless sheep...... But thats my version of history..reasonable minds may differ.
Silverluna
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*grin*
Ah yes FDR Packing the court....(when i was in middle school that always smelled fishy....but then that might have been the weirdo in the back..?)
^_^
Ah yes FDR Packing the court....(when i was in middle school that always smelled fishy....but then that might have been the weirdo in the back..?)
^_^
Re: Yup Yup...
The First amendment states that the government shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion. The court has interpreted that. Courts do that sort of thing.
What does establishment mean? You could interpret it very narrowly, which the current 5-4 majority appears to be doing, or you could interpret it more broadly. Does funding religion constitute the "establishment" of a religion? What did the framers mean when talking about establishment. For that we look to other writings at the time.
Courts should do this. Therefore, the Constitution has been interpreted to mean that there has to be some separation of church and state. State cannot make any law respecting the establishment of a religion. If there is no separation of church and state, this provision is violated.
There ya go.
Silverluna said:
The First amendment states that the government shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion. The court has interpreted that. Courts do that sort of thing.
What does establishment mean? You could interpret it very narrowly, which the current 5-4 majority appears to be doing, or you could interpret it more broadly. Does funding religion constitute the "establishment" of a religion? What did the framers mean when talking about establishment. For that we look to other writings at the time.
Courts should do this. Therefore, the Constitution has been interpreted to mean that there has to be some separation of church and state. State cannot make any law respecting the establishment of a religion. If there is no separation of church and state, this provision is violated.
There ya go.
sufisaint said:
The change in the court's interpretation of the commerce clause is the act to which you are referring, I believe. Without it, there would be no social security, no Medicare, no civil rights act, I can go on and on. This country might still be in a depression, or might be a communist country if the court had not interpreted the commerce clause the way it did.
Silverluna
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OH YEAH?
Well my God's moby dick and he don't like you messing with my thread....LoL
*claps* nice clash...
(you mean this isn't national 2 yr college debate tourny?)
*skips away to class*
Well my God's moby dick and he don't like you messing with my thread....LoL
*claps* nice clash...
(you mean this isn't national 2 yr college debate tourny?)
*skips away to class*
bluntforcemama
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Duh: Everson v. Board of Education (1947). The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this:
(1) Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church.
(2) Neither can pass laws which aid one religion aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another.
(3) Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion.
(4) No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance.
(5) No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion.
(6) Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa.
Please learn how to spell and correct your grammar. It's hard to believe that you might not be an oaf.
(1) Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church.
(2) Neither can pass laws which aid one religion aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another.
(3) Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion.
(4) No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance.
(5) No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion.
(6) Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa.
Please learn how to spell and correct your grammar. It's hard to believe that you might not be an oaf.
Mountain Man
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Myst said:
This is interesting...I have never seen it..
according to #5 then...the use of tax money to fund vouchers for use in Religous schools (ie. Institutions and Activities) is forbidden by this... or is my reading of this wrong?
BTW i believe in the use of vouchers
edited for stupid spelling mistakes...most of them anyway
