Kerry/Edwards=Cheap/Tawdry

[amicus]

One is not surprised on a Pornography site to find participants of low class and poor taste.

When a Presidential and Vice Presidential candidate overtly and brazenly attack a child of an incumbent candidate, it becomes a matter beneath contempt.

Apparently co-ordinated and approved by the Democrat National Committee Senator John Kerry's mention of the 'Lesbian daughter' of Vice President Cheney, following on the heels of Senator John Edwards comments have brought a new low in Liberal ethics and morality.

To compound the gaff, ballooned by relativistic morals, the Liberals offer no apology or even accept the criticism that the actions were reprehensible; they declare the daughter 'fair game.'

These are people, like William Jefferson Clinton, that should not be allowed in the White House, even on a public tour.

Clinton was trailer trash...Kerry/Edwards simply are without class.

...not that it matters but what ever happened to CBS/60 Minutes/Dan Rather?

...or are they just waiting until after November 2nd?

amicus the outraged...

 

[Edward Teach]

One is not surprised on a Pornography site to find participants of low class and poor taste.

When a Presidential and Vice Presidential candidate overtly and brazenly attack a child of an incumbent candidate, it becomes a matter beneath contempt.

Apparently co-ordinated and approved by the Democrat National Committee Senator John Kerry's mention of the 'Lesbian daughter' of Vice President Cheney, following on the heels of Senator John Edwards comments have brought a new low in Liberal ethics and morality.

To compound the gaff, ballooned by relativistic morals, the Liberals offer no apology or even accept the criticism that the actions were reprehensible; they declare the daughter 'fair game.'

These are people, like William Jefferson Clinton, that should not be allowed in the White House, even on a public tour.

Clinton was trailer trash...Kerry/Edwards simply are without class.

...not that it matters but what ever happened to CBS/60 Minutes/Dan Rather?

...or are they just waiting until after November 2nd?

amicus the outraged...

Are you copying me?

Edward The Flattered

 

[AngeloMichael]

I think it's absolutely ridiculous that people are up in arms about Kerry bringing up an out lesbian who is proud of what she is and whom her parents love, to give a face that people could respond to when thinking about what he's saying. I think the outrage is evidence of homophobia, to some degree. Lynne Cheney clearly is not fully resolved in her feelings about her daughter's lifestyle.

 

[Guest]

I decided to go back and review just what Kerry said last night.

To avoid amicus feeling my research was from the "liberal media", I drew this from FoxNews.com except where noted.

The question posed last night :

"Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?"

Included in Senator Kerry's response :
"We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as."

So, did Kerry out someone? I did some research too on this.

From a Fox News on the discussion :

"The vice president has spoken at length about his daughter's sexuality and his view of gay relationships, even disagreeing with the president about the need for a constitutional amendment prohibiting same-sex marriages."

In a news story on August 25, VP Cheney is quoted ""Lynne and I have a gay daughter".
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/08/25/MNGHQ8DV6Q1.DTL

Apparently it was even mentioned at the Republican Convention, by a Republican Senatorial Candidate : "The GOP's next choice, conservative Alan Keyes, promptly created his own unwanted headlines at the Republican National Convention when he implied that Mary Cheney, daughter of Vice President Dick Cheney, was a sinner because she is a lesbian."
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/9722283.htm?1c
That seems harsh, but it is from a Republican,


Questions I have :

>>When a Presidential and Vice Presidential candidate overtly and brazenly attack a child of an incumbent candidate, it becomes a matter beneath contempt.

How does saying the same thing her father has said, an attack? How is Kerry mentioning her, worse than a Republican calling her a sinner?

>>Apparently co-ordinated and approved by the Democrat National Committee
Please cite your evidence.

Ted, the googler

 

[amicus]

If you truly do not know why this is an example of politics at its worst...perhaps someone will tell you...

your quotes were accurate....

 

[Guest]

If you truly do not know why this is an example of politics at its worst...perhaps someone will tell you...

your quotes were accurate....

I was hoping you could.

>>your quotes were accurate
Thank you.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I think it was a cheap shot. An example chosen not because it well illustrated the point, but because it would be embarassing to Cheeny and Bush in light of their blatantly anti-homosexual stance. It was low.

However, Neither Kerry nor Edwards have a monopoly on being low class this election. I seem to remember a lot of pot shots taken at Clinton's daughter as well. So you can't even sat the Dems have a monopoly on it.

Dragging a candidates family into the limelight for percieved political gain is dreadfgully unfair to them. If they put themselves in the spotlight, there is no harm no foul, but dragging them in is low. Some politicians treat an election like a war and follow the maxium all's fair in love & war.

If my father suddenly became a politician and was running for office, I would be hurt and angry if someone dragged my orientation into a public debate to score some points.

-Colly

 

[Edward Teach]

I was hoping you could.

>>your quotes were accurate
Thank you.

Ed The Imitated

 

[Pure]

yeah, a bit of a low blow, BUT

She was out,

Bush and to some extent Daddy and lots of Repubs are hypocrites on gay stuff, just as on abortion, so their hypocrisy deserves to be shown up.

She was not harmed in any way.

ALSO, it's an effective debate technique to 'put a face' on an issue, be it gayness, or health care. Both candidates give homespun yarns about "When I was in the kitchen with Pearl Davidson, in East Butte, Nebraska, she said, 'who's going to pay for my cancer treatment?'"

Remember Fox-news Americans cannot read, or think abstractly.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

yeah, a bit of a low blow, BUT

She was out,

Bush and to some extent Daddy and lots of Repubs are hypocrites on gay stuff, just as on abortion, so their hypocrisy deserves to be shown up.

She was not harmed in any way.

ALSO, it's an effective debate technique to 'put a face' on an issue, be it gayness, or health care. Both candidates give homespun yarns about "When I was in the kitchen with Pearl Davidson, in East Butte, Nebraska, she said, 'who's going to pay for my cancer treatment?'"

Remember Fox-news Americans cannot read, or think abstractly.

I disagree Pure. Out or not, John Kerry turned this woman into a weapon against her father. Considering how difficult it is for a gay or lesbian child to earn a parent's respect, that's inexcusably callous.

IMHO

-Colly

 

[cantdog]

except amicus. He can read but hardly has had a new thought for many years.

 

[Guest]

Out or not, John Kerry turned this woman into a weapon against her father. Considering how difficult it is for a gay or lesbian child to earn a parent's respect, that's inexcusably callous.

I did not get that take at all. It might have been had Kerry's voice or body language been different but it did not seem so to me. Did you see the debate, Colly? The context of the question, and the further context of the VP debate? I was honestly surprized to hear of the repubs reactions today. Just my opinion too, Perdita

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I did not get that take at all. It might have been had Kerry's voice or body language been different but it did not seem so to me. Did you see the debate, Colly? The context of the question, and the further context of the VP debate? I was honestly surprized to hear of the repubs reactions today. Just my opinion too, Perdita

No Dita, i did not wth the debate. For context I am going only on the question posed as Ted-e-bear quoted it. I haven't read anything abou tit, neither the rebus response or the text of the debate.

I simply know that I am a lesbian and if my father were running for office, I would be terribly hurt and angry if some a**hole brought up my orientation as a way of sticking it to my dad. I don't know anything about his daughter. For all I know she is an activist and they haven't spoken for years. If that's the case, then I am off base. But if she is a lesbian and still has a relationship with her father, how do you think she feels about her orientation being mentioned nationally on TV to show up her father?

Did she ask for that? Just because she's gay?

-Colly

Rather than edit I will ask pardon for my spelling, I'm on heavy pain killers tonight.

 

[Guest]

Colly, since you did not see the debate, or the one (I presume) where Dick Cheney thanked Edwards for his comments about his daughter, then I won't continue giving you my opinion. I understand your comments but as you yourself say you are ignorant about many facts so it's not something I see fruitful to continue. P.

p.s. Nevermind about typos anytime, we all know you write well.

 

[BlackSnake]

I decided to go back and review just what Kerry said last night.

To avoid amicus feeling my research was from the "liberal media", I drew this from FoxNews.com except where noted.

The question posed last night :

"Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?"

Included in Senator Kerry's response :
"We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as."

So, did Kerry out someone? I did some research too on this.
...

What does this say to you, but "Hey! Your Vice President's daughter is a lesbian!"

If you read anything more or less into that, then I would assume that you believe that successful people in America need to be punished for being successful.

It's true that some people in America pay more in taxes than some other people in America will make in their life-time.

I believe Kerry was playing sound bites to the stupid. Siting how much the top 1% of income makers get in tax relief, say that it could have gone to fund government programs. My goodness, if you take back the tax relief Americans in my income bracket got in relief, you could fund government programs with that too.

Kerry has said that he will do a lot, but not how he plan to realistically do any of it.

War is hell. Do anyone remember the number of people jump to their deaths to escape being burned alive? Do anyone really feel it any more? Is it history and doesn't matter, like kids say in school?

I don't know of anyone who like war, but I believe we are at war with everyone who hate Americans. I feel, to hate a country is to hate its people.

 

[Couture]

You want to know what I think is beneath contempt?

The man's whole family was on stage with him during the convention - his whole family except for one child. His gay daughter.

His own party endorses discrimination against gay people and Cheney has nothing to say. Their rhetoric is increasing hate crimes and animosity toward gay people of whom his daughter is one.

If you won't stand up for your own children, who will you stand up for? IMHO, Edwards gave Cheney far too much credit during his debate on the subject. He should have said, "Have you no decency sir? Stand up for your daughter's rights because you love her, and it's the right thing to do for all human beings. Or will you be remembered like Strom Thurman who had a mixed race child yet sought to discriminate against blacks?

You want to talk about contempt, because Kerry put a human face on the Republican's campaign of bigotry and discrimination. I'll tell you about contempt. Contempt is what I feel for the racists and bigots of the world who seek to rise to power on the backs of the few or the weak.

I really don't know why I bother to reply to you amicus. You don't give a happy damn for Mary Cheney. If you did, you would want her to have the same rights and freedoms as the rest of America. Your mock outrage is as transparent as your arguments.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Colly, since you did not see the debate, or the one (I presume) where Dick Cheney thanked Edwards for his comments about his daughter, then I won't continue giving you my opinion. I understand your comments but as you yourself say you are ignorant about many facts so it's not something I see fruitful to continue. P.

p.s. Nevermind about typos anytime, we all know you write well.

You're right Dita. My response was knee jerk and not based on a full or even mild knowledge of the facts.

-Colly

 

[BlackSnake]

You want to know what I think is beneath contempt?

The man's whole family was on stage with him during the convention - his whole family except for one child. His gay daughter.

His own party endorses discrimination against gay people and Cheney has nothing to say. Their rhetoric is increasing hate crimes and animosity toward gay people of whom his daughter is one.

If you won't stand up for your own children, who will you stand up for? IMHO, Edwards gave Cheney far too much credit during his debate on the subject. He should have said, "Have you no decency sir? Stand up for your daughter's rights because you love her, and it's the right thing to do for all human beings. Or will you be remembered like Strom Thurman who had a mixed race child yet sought to discriminate against blacks?

You want to talk about contempt, because Kerry put a human face on the Republican's campaign of bigotry and discrimination. I'll tell you about contempt. Contempt is what I feel for the racists and bigots of the world who seek to rise to power on the backs of the few or the weak.

I really don't know why I bother to reply to you amicus. You don't give a happy damn for Mary Cheney. If you did, you would want her to have the same rights and freedoms as the rest of America. Your mock outrage is as transparent as your arguments.

Couture, from what to you speak of discrimination against gay, of racists and bigots from the current administration?

Is it the attempts to gay marriage at the federal level? What right has been violated? Has the natural laws been violated? What actions have been taken by the current administration to violate their civil rights?

 

[Boota]

I have watched all the debates and I have found nothing disrespectful about the way Kerry or Edwards made mention of Cheney's daughter. In fact, Cheney thanked Edwards for the kind words about his family and offered no argument against that particular point. It seems that he agreed with what Edwards said, but chose to remain quiet on the subject rather than to conflict with the wishes of the President. I think Edwards said what Cheney wishes he could.

Now, was it necessary to point out Cheney's daughter the way that Kerry did last night? No, I don't think so. But I still feel that his manner and attitude were respectful.

I think the only good reason for mentioning Cheney's lesbian daughter is to illustrate the inherent wrongness in the proposed Constitutional amendment. The point becomes clear that discrimination against gay people, which is what this amendment is, affects a lot of people. Not just homosexuals. Even the people who are against homosexuality, for whatever reason, usually don't want their family discriminated against. Cheney is in a position to do something really positive, but he remains silent for political reasons. That's sad.

 

[Couture]

And while I'm at it, ain't it about time for the fucking democrats to come out and show some fucking backbone on this subject.

"Well I personally feel that marriage should be between a man and a woman too, but...."

Fuck but..

The government doesn't have any business in the bedroom of consenting adults. It doesn't have any business saying who you should love or have a relationship with. And it damn sure shouldn't legislate the discrimination of a minority group in this country.

Almost all of us are some sort of minority group. If you are a man, how would you feel if the government said you couldn't marry a woman? That would be pretty fucked up, no? Well, don't do it to other people!

This is a prime example of why there is supposed to be a seperation between church and state. This country should not be run based on superstition.

 

[Couture]

Couture, from what to you speak of discrimination against gay, of racists and bigots from the current administration?

Is it the attempts to gay marriage at the federal level? What right has been violated? Has the natural laws been violated? What actions have been taken by the current administration to violate their civil rights?

I do not support the federal government in their attempts ammend the constitution to take rights away from any minority. It wasn' that long ago that were trying to do the same thing regarding interracial marriage. This was considered against the 'natural law'.

In my own state, it is a crime against nature to have most kinds of sex. It is also illegal to cohabitate, although these laws are rarely enforced. However, they are selectively enforced against gay people.

This is discrimination and no matter how goody goody they make it sound, it is wrong.

 

[BlackSnake]

...

I think the only good reason for mentioning Cheney's lesbian daughter is to illustrate the inherent wrongness in the proposed Constitutional amendment. The point becomes clear that discrimination against gay people, which is what this amendment is, affects a lot of people. Not just homosexuals. Even the people who are against homosexuality, for whatever reason, usually don't want their family discriminated against. Cheney is in a position to do something really positive, but he remains silent for political reasons. That's sad.

It could be that Cheney do not care to discuss this issue.

Personally, I think it's wrong and a poor use of legislative efforts to have this amendment against who an adult cares to marry. And that's all that I think about it.

I just hope Americans are listening to more than sound bites. We are a nation at war with an enemy driven by heroic idealism. They want to kill Americans, and are willing to die trying. The can not be reason with, bribed, or offered anything. They want to kill Americans.

I hope that Americans will vote for themselves, their families, their friends, and their neighbors. God bless America.

 

[Liar]

You want to know what I think is beneath contempt?

The man's whole family was on stage with him during the convention - his whole family except for one child. His gay daughter.

Didn't know this. Was this because of her choice, because she doesn't support her dad's politics on the matter? (I may be misinformed, but afaik they are on speaking terms) Or was that choice made by Cheney and/or the party? There's some difference there I think.

 

[BlackSnake]

I do not support the federal government in their attempts ammend the constitution to take rights away from any minority. It wasn' that long ago that were trying to do the same thing regarding interracial marriage. This was considered against the 'natural law'.

In my own state, it is a crime against nature to have most kinds of sex. It is also illegal to cohabitate, although these laws are rarely enforced. However, they are selectively enforced against gay people.

This is discrimination and no matter how goody goody they make it sound, it is wrong.

I don't see anything goody goody about that either. Now, deeming any activity between two consenting adults illegal should be band. That would be worth tax payer money well spent.

Selective enforcement of laws has been unconstitutional for some time. This is not the 70's. There are resources available to those who feel mistreated and should be encouraged to seek them out.

 

[impressive]

I did not get that take at all.

Nor I.

I think it pertinent to call attention to the differences of opinion between Bush and Cheney on this issue.

Frankly, I'm not thrilled with ANY of the four candidates' stance on the issue.