Keeping it real?

Ishmael

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From Townhall.com

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Armstrong Williams

March 5, 2003

Keeping it real?

Last week a friend of mine on the Senate Judiciary Committee dropped her head in her hands and moaned, "this is going to be another Clarence Thomas."

She was referring, of course, to Miguel Estrada, President Bush's nominee to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. Mr. Estrada is the first Latino nominee to the Federal bench. Word is he's being fast tracked to the Supreme Court. That is, if he can get past the highly partisan nomination process. Presently, the Democratic leadership has dug in its heels in opposition to Estrada, threatening to filibuster his nomination.

The Democrats' extreme reaction to Estrada can largely be explained in terms of panic. Their leadership knows that if Estrada is confirmed, he could help normalize relations between the Republican Party and Hispanic voters. Estrada's confirmation would proclaim to Hispanics that they are part of the Republican Party. This, along with other broad efforts at diversity, could help stimulate a more genuine give and take between the Republican Party and minority voters.

The Democratic response has been to launch a shrill grassroots campaign to convince the public that Mr. Estrada isn't in touch with the Hispanic community. That he's not Hispanic enough. That he is "a sell out." Never mind that he emigrated from Honduras as a teenager, taught himself English and then proceeded to put himself through Columbia University and Harvard Law School. Never mind that he has served as a deputy solicitor general of the United States, argued 15 cases before the Supreme Court and received the highest rating from the American Bar Association. Never mind that he is a role model not just for Hispanic-Americans, but for all Americans. Never mind all of that because the Democratic leadership has resolved to torpedo his nomination on the vague grounds that he ain't "keeping it real."

In reality, Estrada is a conservative and, therefore, not the sort of Latino that can be of help to the Democrats. So they paint him as "a sell out." It's the same strategy they used to bloody Justice Thomas. This is the most insidious form of racism because it is actually cloaked in moral authority. By dictating what constitutes a real Hispanic, the Democratic leadership implies that all Hispanics have to think and act the same way. This is worst than stupid. It is inherently self-limiting because it marks out definitive boundaries to Hispanic abilities. We need to move away from this ethnic groupthink. Until an individual defines himself by his own ability to move forward in this phenomenal world, he is but half free.

Being Hispanic - like being human - means at the end of the day you must seek your own language instead of going about things as you think a Hispanic should.

After all, how can someone ever hope to achieve a uniquely Hispanic (or black or feminine, etc.) experience as long as they define themselves by what society says they should be? How is that authentic? How is that keeping it real?

What a farce and what a shame that the Democratic leadership is sandbagging Estrada's career because he doesn't mesh with its idea of what a good Hispanic should be.

Someone really ought to explain to the Democrats that a "real" Hispanic is the one that places some value on his own unique experiences, rather than letting a political party define his ability and potential.

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Mr. Williams makes a very important point here. How is it possible that a group, any group, defines what constitutes appropriate beliefs and behaviors for any ethnic minority? Particualarly when that group, the Democrats of the US Senate in this case, is primarily white, male, anglo, and wealthy.

If I were a member of a minority group I'd be highly insulted.

Ishmael
 
Some people have resevations on such nominations because as in the case with Clarence Thomas, they turn their back and oppose such policies and changes which afforded them the OPPORTUNIY to get to their position which without it would be doubly as difficult to achieve.

Its about giving back to the community.

Also when republicans nominate a minority anomaly, its often viewed by the minority community as a token in the name of diversity but not in the spirit of what it should be.

A lot like stating you have black friends.
 
badasschick said:
Some people have resevations on such nominations because as in the case with Clarence Thomas, they turn their back and oppose such policies and changes which afforded them the OPPORTUNIY to get to their position which without it would be doubly as difficult to achieve.

Its about giving back to the community.

Also when republicans nominate a minority anomaly, its often viewed by the minority community as a token in the name of diversity but not in the spirit of what it should be.

A lot like stating you have black friends.

First of all you assume he's an anomoly. You have no evidence of that. Or is it because he's a conservative?

There is no obligation to "give back to the community." The oath is to uphold the constitution of the United States. Not hand out prizes from the bench. His job on the bench, as anyother judges should be, is to represent ALL of the people. Not just his or her particular ethnic group.

But following your argument a bit further. Why is it that the Republicans have consistently nominated more "tokens" to high position than the Democrats? And why is it that these "tokens" credentials, for the most part, have been far superior to the "tokens" the Democrats have nominated?

There is a total disconnect between your words of accusation and the reality that is there for anyone that is interested in investigating same.

Ishmael
 
Ishmael said:
First of all you assume he's an anomoly. You have no evidence of that. Or is it because he's a conservative?

There is no obligation to "give back to the community." The oath is to uphold the constitution of the United States. Not hand out prizes from the bench. His job on the bench, as anyother judges should be, is to represent ALL of the people. Not just his or her particular ethnic group.

But following your argument a bit further. Why is it that the Republicans have consistently nominated more "tokens" to high position than the Democrats? And why is it that these "tokens" credentials, for the most part, have been far superior to the "tokens" the Democrats have nominated?

There is a total disconnect between your words of accusation and the reality that is there for anyone that is interested in investigating same.

Ishmael

Dude, there's nothing accusatory in my tone, I'm giving an explaination from a minority democrat's point of view.

But If you wanna go there, who's credentials are superior?

Are you saying that a Historically Black University's degree is worth less than one from an Ivy league school? Check yourself Ish.

Both Bushes stacked the fed courts like the Pope stacks the college of cardinals. Insuring that onlly a certain point of view is represented. Theirs.

The republican party is romancing the Latino community because their numbers have grown and they don't want to lose votes, since MOST minorities vote democrat. Why else would they parade Dubya's fine nephew about SoCal like that? I honestly feel that the republican party doesn't truly care about issues pertaining to the Latino community. Look at their track record, on immigration, and various issues within the Latino community.

This is why I say such candidates are seen as tokens.
 
badasschick said:
The republican party is romancing the Latino community because their numbers have grown and they don't want to lose votes, since MOST minorities vote democrat.

This is why I say such candidates are seen as tokens.



DING! We have a winner.

The Estrada nomination was nothing more than a back scratch payback.

You are right BAC, and furthermore, I know for a fact that hard core Texan residents, would like nothing more than to string up a bunch of latinos.

Hypocrisy at its finest.
 
badasschick said:
Dude, there's nothing accusatory in my tone, I'm giving an explaination from a minority democrat's point of view.

But If you wanna go there, who's credentials are superior?

Are you saying that a Historically Black University's degree is worth less than one from an Ivy league school? Check yourself Ish.

Both Bushes stacked the fed courts like the Pope stacks the college of cardinals. Insuring that onlly a certain point of view is represented. Theirs.

The republican party is romancing the Latino community because their numbers have grown and they don't want to lose votes, since MOST minorities vote democrat. Why else would they parade Dubya's fine nephew about SoCal like that? I honestly feel that the republican party doesn't truly care about issues pertaining to the Latino community. Look at their track record, on immigration, and various issues within the Latino community.

This is why I say such candidates are seen as tokens.

Tuskegee has a fine reputation. But over all I have to agree with you.

Don't come at me with the "stacking the court" thing. That is the job and perogative of any sitting president. It is their constitutional duty to make appointments. To single out the Bush's to the exclusion of everyother sitting president is self serving and disengenuous.

As far as the latino community is concerned, you are right. But that's called politics. As if the Democrats don't play the game as well. Should we stamp every latino's ass with a blue stamp declaring "US Democratic Choice?" Or perhaps treat them as the human being they are and compete for their vote in the arena of ideas?

And that brings up an interesting point. The latino's will soon outnumber every other minority voting block. It makes good sense to compete for their vote. The black community has marginalized itself by voting almost monolithically Democratic. The Democrats have delivered almost nothing of any significance to the black community. Why should they? The vote is a foregone conclussion. On the other hand, the Republicans have no great incentive because once again, the vote is a foregone conclussion. So how has the black community bartered it's power at the polls? The black community has offered nothing to either party to force them to compete for your vote. Nothing to bid for so to speak.

Ishmael
 
Ishmael said:
Tuskegee has a fine reputation. But over all I have to agree with you.

<snip>

The Democrats have delivered almost nothing of any significance to the black community. Why should they? The vote is a foregone conclussion. On the other hand, the Republicans have no great incentive because once again, the vote is a foregone conclussion. So how has the black community bartered it's power at the polls? The black community has offered nothing to either party to force them to compete for your vote. Nothing to bid for so to speak.

Ishmael


Marshall went to Lincoln and Howard, of which Howard is terribly competitive and its reputation of being very hard to get into preceedes it


Democrats have given the Black community something the Republican party has never attempted to until my lifetime....political legitimacy.

Which is why many Black people are loyal to the Democratic party

Who officially and publically apologized to the African-American community for injustices at the hands of the federal government? Not Slavery

I didn't see the republican party stepping up.
 
I posted this on another thread, but its relevant:

Paul Bender (deputy Solicitor General in the Clinton Justice Department) was formerly Estrada's immediate supervisor. Bender told the Los Angeles Times that Estrada is so "ideologically driven that he couldn't be trusted to state the law in a fair, neutral way"

He's not a conservative....he's a partisan judicial activist.
 
badasschick said:
Marshall went to Lincoln and Howard, of which Howard is terribly competitive and its reputation of being very hard to get into preceedes it


Democrats have given the Black community something the Republican party has never attempted to until my lifetime....political legitimacy.

Which is why many Black people are loyal to the Democratic party

Who officially and publically apologized to the African-American community for injustices at the hands of the federal government? Not Slavery

I didn't see the republican party stepping up.

OK, who appointed the Chief Justice that headed the court that ended segregation? And who sent federal troops to the schools thoughout the south to see that those orders were carried out? And what party voted overwhelmingly for the Civil Rights act?

As far as "political legitimacy", I guess you have to decide whether your politics is predetermined by the color of your skin or not. And as far as I can see all the community got from the democrats was lip service. Patronization at its worst.

Ishmael
 
ThrobDownSouth said:
I posted this on another thread, but its relevant:

Paul Bender (deputy Solicitor General in the Clinton Justice Department) was formerly Estrada's immediate supervisor. Bender told the Los Angeles Times that Estrada is so "ideologically driven that he couldn't be trusted to state the law in a fair, neutral way"

He's not a conservative....he's a partisan judicial activist.

Which, of course, is why the ABA has given Estrada their highest rating.

<shrug>

Ishmael
 
ThrobDownSouth said:
I posted this on another thread, but its relevant:

Paul Bender (deputy Solicitor General in the Clinton Justice Department) was formerly Estrada's immediate supervisor. Bender told the Los Angeles Times that Estrada is so "ideologically driven that he couldn't be trusted to state the law in a fair, neutral way"

He's not a conservative....he's a partisan judicial activist.

BTW, the issue in the Judiciary isn't Rep. vs Dem. It's activists vs. constructionalists. Terms you may want to look up and use properly.

Ishmael
 
Ishmael said:
OK, who appointed the Chief Justice that headed the court that ended segregation? And who sent federal troops to the schools thoughout the south to see that those orders were carried out? And what party voted overwhelmingly for the Civil Rights act?

As far as "political legitimacy", I guess you have to decide whether your politics is predetermined by the color of your skin or not. And as far as I can see all the community got from the democrats was lip service. Patronization at its worst.

Ishmael




Political legitimacy because we were not seen as a "problem" which I believe the republican party did publish something describing the African-American community as a "problem", during the era you're citing.
That's patronization at its worst.
 
badasschick said:
Political legitimacy because we were not seen as a "problem" which I believe the republican party did publish something describing the African-American community as a "problem", during the era you're citing.
That's patronization at its worst.

Well, dealing with a disenfranchised group of citizens is a "problem". Calling a spade a spade is not an ethnic slur at all. But there are those that will take that leap of "bad faith" and attempt to do so. You can either hang your stocking on a word that you consider to be politically incorrect, or look at the substantive changes. Smoke and mirrors or real change.

Ishmael
 
Ishmael said:
Well, dealing with a disenfranchised group of citizens is a "problem". Calling a spade a spade is not an ethnic slur at all. But there are those that will take that leap of "bad faith" and attempt to do so. You can either hang your stocking on a word that you consider to be politically incorrect, or look at the substantive changes. Smoke and mirrors or real change.

Ishmael

Said disenfranchised group of people feel even more disenfranchised when referred to as a "problem".

Kind of like a stray dog.
 
...

badasschick said:
Said disenfranchised group of people feel even more disenfranchised when referred to as a "problem".

Kind of like a stray dog.

In the U.S. we euthanize over 10 million abadoned, abused, neglected, animals each year.
 
badasschick said:
Said disenfranchised group of people feel even more disenfranchised when referred to as a "problem".

Kind of like a stray dog.

That's a little thin skinned don't you think?

It was a problem, a serious problem. One to be addressed. And it was addressed. Votes validated, schools opened. Real and substantive change for the true political realizations of the community.

I'm sorry, but you aren't finding a sympathetic ear on this point. Again it's smoke and mirrors as opposed to substantive change.

Ishmael
 
Re: ...

schwaantz_nj said:
In the U.S. we euthanize over 10 million abadoned, abused, neglected, animals each year.

What's this "we" shit?

Ishmael
 
Ishmael said:
That's a little thin skinned don't you think?

It was a problem, a serious problem. One to be addressed. And it was addressed. Votes validated, schools opened. Real and substantive change for the true political realizations of the community.

I'm sorry, but you aren't finding a sympathetic ear on this point. Again it's smoke and mirrors as opposed to substantive change.

Ishmael

When you're on the other side of the situation, you'll change your opinion.

see: the footrace analogy
 
Re: Re: ...

Ishmael said:
What's this "we" shit?

Ishmael


Dont be so anal...if you cannot figure it out you are probably part of the reason "we" have this problem.
 
badasschick said:
When you're on the other side of the situation, you'll change your opinion.

see: the footrace analogy

What makes you think I haven't? At least in some respects.

I still contend that you are being thin skinned and not looking at the historical record.

BTW, you have no idea how offended I was by Clintons "apology". For him to presume to appologize for me and millions of others that were not part of the problem is beyond the pale. For him to apologize for the dead is presumptuous. It was a blatant act of political patronization. Particularly from a man that learned the ropes of politics from a man called Justice Jim Johnson. The Democratic candidate for governor for the state of Arkansas in 1966. A man that ran on a strict segregationist ticket against Winthrop Rockerfeller, and a man that William J. Clinton was one of the campaign organizers for. It was only with JJJ's backing that Wee Willy got the nod for the nomination for Attorney General for the state.

Ishmael
 
I guess I need to brush up on what goes on in the senate. According to the constitution judicial nominees only require a simple majority to be confirmed correct? If this is true how can they Dems filibuster this?
 
Worm said:
I guess I need to brush up on what goes on in the senate. According to the constitution judicial nominees only require a simple majority to be confirmed correct? If this is true how can they Dems filibuster this?

The Senate has 'super-majority' rules. It requires a vote of 60 to bring 'cloture' to a debate. So as long as they keep talking????????

Further, Constitutionally, the Senate's job is to vet for 'fitness for office' not political correctness. With a Republican majority in the Senate, the Democrats are embarked on a very dangerous path. Should a Democratic president be elected, the same treatment may be expected.

Ishmael
 
Ishmael said:
From Townhall.com

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Armstrong Williams

March 5, 2003

... Presently, the Democratic leadership has dug in its heels in opposition to Estrada, threatening to filibuster his nomination.

I find it odd that the Senate Democrats would threaten to do something they've ALREADY BEEN DOING for several weeks.

Posting the occasional fact would be nice, Ish.

Worm: to limit debate in the Senate requires a vote of cloture, which must pass by a 3/5ths majority.

cloture - The only procedure by which the Senate can vote to place a time limit on consideration of a bill or other matter, and thereby overcome a filibuster. Under the cloture rule (Rule XXII), the Senate may limit consideration of a pending matter to 30 additional hours, but only by vote of three-fifths of the full Senate, normally 60 votes.
 
So don't these rules violate the constitution then? It is like saying he needs 60 votes to be confirmed when the constitution says he only needs 51.
 
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