Katrina Timeline
- Thread starter thebullet
- Start date
DVS
A ghost from your dreams
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2002
- Posts
- 11,416
My earlier post to this thread mentioned the evacuation plan for New Orleans that the mayor didn't implement. He was asked on Meet the Press why he didn't do so. Dateline talked about it, but didn't ask him anything other than his opinion of if he thought he did all he could.
He said "we did what we thought was necessary" and that he thought history would agree with him. On Meet the Press, he was asked why he didn't use the city buses to evacuate people who didn't have means of their own to get out. Both shows even showed the buses that were lined up in rows, but submerged from the floodwaters.
The mayor said the reason he didn't use the buses to get people out was because he didn't have enough drivers to drive them. But, it seems to me, if there are evacuation plans to get people out, he should have people hired to drive those buses. Surely he would have had some firefighters or police who could offer to drive, if the regular drivers bolted on him. And, if there were no drivers, that also falls back on him, or at least someone in his office not doing his job in the disaster plan. I see that as failing his citizens in his duty as mayor.
The evacuation plan called for the evacuation of people at least 72 hours before the hurricane hit land. He announced his evacuation about 24 hours before landfall. The evacuation plan took into account for traffic jams and a basic slow exodus, 72 hours being the minimum time for a category 3 storm. He was also asked why he didn't announce his evacuation sooner. He pretty much evaded that question.
Dateline didn't ask him point blank questions, but they did mention the evacuation plan and showed many school buses flooded, that could have been used to get people out of the city.
On Meet the Press, he said he was just trying to get everybody to higher ground, and above sea level, so the state and federal relief could come in and get the people out. It seems to me, if he had just made the buses available, I'm sure there would have been those among the people wanting to get out of the city who could have driven those buses for him. In my opinion, it sure seems like there was a lack of planning on the mayor's shoulders.
When asked, he said he didn't have a problem with Bush's handling of the disaster. He said it was more than likely red tape and a lack of communications between the state government and the federal government. He said every time he talked to the president and asked for specific help, he got what he asked for.
He did say, however that FEMA was slow in responding and even I agree that was the case, to some extent. And, on Dateline, if what some said really happened, I would think FEMA was at fault, in those instances. But, I’ve heard stories where local government didn't let FEMA and/or the Red Cross move in to some areas. One such instance was at the Superdome. The Red Cross said they had food and water ready to go to the Superdome, but that the state government didn't want this sent in. They said they were trying to get people OUT of the stadium and thought food and water would attract even more people, and they didn't want that to happen.
Although, on Meet the Press, the mayor didn't have much in the way of good things to say for LA's governor's handling of the situation. He said he was dealing with only about 120 national guardsmen in the beginning, and the governor didn't seem to want to give control over to the federal level, when he thought she should have.
He said his police were spread very thin and they were weary because of their own lost homes and missing families. I understand that, but wouldn't this have been something someone should have thought of and found replacements for those police officers? I don't know if that would have been his call or the governor's, though. And, maybe that was also part of the lack of communication.
In my opinion, if more of New Orleans' evacuation plan had been set in motion, there would have been less people left in the city, less people forced to stay in the Superdome, less people sitting on their roofs and wading through the dirty water and less people drowning. The more people who could have been helped out of the city before the flood waters came, the easier that would have made all other rescue and recovery procedures that were necessary much easier...or in some situations, not even necessary.
But, I see how it's easy for people to blame the federal government and FEMA. Sure, FEMA had problems. But, I see a larger failure in this disaster was the lack of planning or lack of setting existing plans into motion by the mayor. I've heard stories about the governor, too, but not enough of the same stories from different sources that I feel comfortable in saying they are true, at this time.
I see those buses as a smoking gun. That was a mass exit option that was mentioned in the evacuation plan and it could have saved lives. But, it doesn't look like anybody even tried to move even one bus.
Brown has resigned, huh? Will anyone in the local or state government offer the same?
He said "we did what we thought was necessary" and that he thought history would agree with him. On Meet the Press, he was asked why he didn't use the city buses to evacuate people who didn't have means of their own to get out. Both shows even showed the buses that were lined up in rows, but submerged from the floodwaters.
The mayor said the reason he didn't use the buses to get people out was because he didn't have enough drivers to drive them. But, it seems to me, if there are evacuation plans to get people out, he should have people hired to drive those buses. Surely he would have had some firefighters or police who could offer to drive, if the regular drivers bolted on him. And, if there were no drivers, that also falls back on him, or at least someone in his office not doing his job in the disaster plan. I see that as failing his citizens in his duty as mayor.
The evacuation plan called for the evacuation of people at least 72 hours before the hurricane hit land. He announced his evacuation about 24 hours before landfall. The evacuation plan took into account for traffic jams and a basic slow exodus, 72 hours being the minimum time for a category 3 storm. He was also asked why he didn't announce his evacuation sooner. He pretty much evaded that question.
Dateline didn't ask him point blank questions, but they did mention the evacuation plan and showed many school buses flooded, that could have been used to get people out of the city.
On Meet the Press, he said he was just trying to get everybody to higher ground, and above sea level, so the state and federal relief could come in and get the people out. It seems to me, if he had just made the buses available, I'm sure there would have been those among the people wanting to get out of the city who could have driven those buses for him. In my opinion, it sure seems like there was a lack of planning on the mayor's shoulders.
When asked, he said he didn't have a problem with Bush's handling of the disaster. He said it was more than likely red tape and a lack of communications between the state government and the federal government. He said every time he talked to the president and asked for specific help, he got what he asked for.
He did say, however that FEMA was slow in responding and even I agree that was the case, to some extent. And, on Dateline, if what some said really happened, I would think FEMA was at fault, in those instances. But, I’ve heard stories where local government didn't let FEMA and/or the Red Cross move in to some areas. One such instance was at the Superdome. The Red Cross said they had food and water ready to go to the Superdome, but that the state government didn't want this sent in. They said they were trying to get people OUT of the stadium and thought food and water would attract even more people, and they didn't want that to happen.
Although, on Meet the Press, the mayor didn't have much in the way of good things to say for LA's governor's handling of the situation. He said he was dealing with only about 120 national guardsmen in the beginning, and the governor didn't seem to want to give control over to the federal level, when he thought she should have.
He said his police were spread very thin and they were weary because of their own lost homes and missing families. I understand that, but wouldn't this have been something someone should have thought of and found replacements for those police officers? I don't know if that would have been his call or the governor's, though. And, maybe that was also part of the lack of communication.
In my opinion, if more of New Orleans' evacuation plan had been set in motion, there would have been less people left in the city, less people forced to stay in the Superdome, less people sitting on their roofs and wading through the dirty water and less people drowning. The more people who could have been helped out of the city before the flood waters came, the easier that would have made all other rescue and recovery procedures that were necessary much easier...or in some situations, not even necessary.
But, I see how it's easy for people to blame the federal government and FEMA. Sure, FEMA had problems. But, I see a larger failure in this disaster was the lack of planning or lack of setting existing plans into motion by the mayor. I've heard stories about the governor, too, but not enough of the same stories from different sources that I feel comfortable in saying they are true, at this time.
I see those buses as a smoking gun. That was a mass exit option that was mentioned in the evacuation plan and it could have saved lives. But, it doesn't look like anybody even tried to move even one bus.
Brown has resigned, huh? Will anyone in the local or state government offer the same?
Last edited:
Couture
Ass Expert
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2001
- Posts
- 1,363
When we were hit by Floyd and flooded thereafter, there were also buses lined up and under water. We still have the same mayor and city manager.
In any situation like this - the unexpected is going to happen. What if they used the buses and people got trapped and drowned in them as they were being hauled away? I suppose we would still blame the mayor....
However, when you have a president that was on vacation in the midst of this shit, and a the fema director lying the whole while, it is inexcusable.
Blame the mayor, blame the governor, and last of all - blame the people who didn't leave. However, I think the picture of the president playing air guitar while the people of Lousiana, Mississippi, and Alabama died in the flood speaks for itself.
http://www.themoderatevoice.com/files/joe-bushplaysguitar.jpg
In any situation like this - the unexpected is going to happen. What if they used the buses and people got trapped and drowned in them as they were being hauled away? I suppose we would still blame the mayor....
However, when you have a president that was on vacation in the midst of this shit, and a the fema director lying the whole while, it is inexcusable.
Blame the mayor, blame the governor, and last of all - blame the people who didn't leave. However, I think the picture of the president playing air guitar while the people of Lousiana, Mississippi, and Alabama died in the flood speaks for itself.
http://www.themoderatevoice.com/files/joe-bushplaysguitar.jpg
Last edited:
DVS
A ghost from your dreams
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2002
- Posts
- 11,416
Only as a clarification, it's called "air guitar" when you don't have a guitar. I'd assume the pres only pretending to play. Some hate the man so, no matter what he does, he'll always be pretending. It fuels the drama.Couture said:
With respect, we are on opposite sides of this, because I see what the mayor didn't do as worse than what the president didn't do. The fact that the mayor was in charge of the city evacuation plan, it could have been put in motion by only him, and if it had been done as the plan dictated, who knows how many more might have gotten out of the city before the floods came.
And, because this wasn't done, the very people who were left to fend for themselves are seen as the victims of predigest of the federal government and of Bush himself.
FEMA was slow to respond, I agree, to a point. But, those who were left to fend for themselves by their own mayor's lack of duty have been shown on TV news after TV news as the fault of a federal lapse, and that's just not true.
If the mayor had just done his job, there might not have been anything to show on the TV news but a few looters who stayed behind just for the loot.
I've included a few links. Read them, if you want, or not. It's up to those reading this, and who you want to blame. One is an interview with the mayor, when he was pissed his people weren't getting the federal help he thought they should.
It makes me wonder, how he could be so pissed when his lack of duty was the primary reason they were there, in the first place. He failed his own people, and should be held responsible.
Because those who couldn't help themselves were left behind by this man's job failure, they were soon fending off the rising waters when the levees broke. Then, the liberals all get on the band wagon and blame Bush for not caring about the old, the poor, and the blacks. There's such hatred for that man, it's quite blinding, I guess.
In the other links, the buses are shown that he could have used to transport people out. He has said he didn't have drivers for these buses and that's why he didn't use them. He said nobody stayed behind to drive the buses.
What kind of people did he hire for his staff that they would leave theiir job, and put citizens in a fight for their very lives? Maybe if the mayor had started the evacuation at 72 hours like the plan clearly dictated, instead of only 24, the drivers might have stuck around? Only those who fled can answer that.
And, even without drivers...he could have allowed anyone to drive those buses. They were a ticket out for the dirver, the driver's family and many more, if they had only been put to use.
The mayor's rant...
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/
buses...
http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html
and more buses. Check out september 03 entry at top of page.
http://junkyardblog.net/archives/week_2005_08_28.html#004746
and more.
http://instapundit.com/archives/025310.php
Yes, some of those pictures are of the same buses, but I mainly included these links for the text. And as I said, we will never agree. We will just have to respect each other's points of view and agree to disagree.
EDITED for some spelling errors.
Last edited:
Similar threads
