Katrina Disaster

[LadyJeanne]

Everyone has command of hind sight, and an opinion on how this tragedy could have been handled in better ways. You can sit there in your safe home and look at the aftermath of one of nature’s most powerful reminders that we are but small insignificant beings on this planet and bitch about everything in your ignorant bliss.
You suck you stupid bastards!.....Do you think you can run a country better?
It’s easy to look back and say this and that should have been done.
Are you clairvoyant? If so why didn’t you stop this from happening? Why didn’t you go to New Orleans and make the poor leave in the face of impending disaster?
True, mistakes were made and relief was slow to come, but it came when it was possible!
Who the fuck do you think you are that you could have done better?
I’m so sick of the liberal pricks who think they can save the world……If you can? why have you not done so? You sit on your fat asses and criticize like you are some supreme being….give me a fucking break.
You suck just as much as the relief effort!

America is the strongest country in the world and we are not perfect. But constantly we are under the scrutiny of other nations that can’t even pay their WW II debts.
“I say Shut the Fuck up and pay your debt for us saving your ass countless times….then maybe you have the right to talk your shit.
America is the only country in the world that tries to right the wrong and help make the world a better place….when you can say the same, then you can talk…other wise shut the hell up! And be glad we exist to save your sorry asses next time you are about to be taken over by a foreign power.

Oh and by the way you Americans who are bitching….you suck also! If you can do a better job..... go run for office and prove it!

We are a HUGE debtor nation. Just ask the UN.

America is the only country in the world that spends $140B+ (and counting) to bring democracy to countries that don't want it, while offering up $10M to its own people instead of the requested $70 to shore up some levees. And then this debacle.

Damn right we Americans are going to ask WTF!!!

 

[amicus]

jmt.....hear hear!


The disgrace of the anti Bush Liberal left on this site and on cable news is really beneath mention.

And to our EU friends coming to our aid? Yeah, right, thanks for nothing.

FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, is just that a 'management agency'. There are no FEMA helicopters or 4bys, no FEMA boats; they are a management agency.

Homeland Security is also a 'management' agency.

For you 'foreigners' who do not understand that Federal Agencies act only upon request of local, city and state governments, you need to refocus your anger, if at all,upon those local agencies that were overwhelmed by the hurricane.

And yes, the ability of New Orleans withstand a major hurricane has been in question for many years. Just as whether Los Angeles could survive a 9.0 quaker or a large Tsunami is also in doubt and should either occur, the same whining would be heard all over again.

Even Miami, should it be hit by at Category 4 or 5 hurricane, or a Tsunami, could most likely not be evacuated soon enough.

While everyone watching the terrible scenes around the Superdome in New Orleans, or those at the Convention Center and even those on the overpasses, awaiting help and rescue, could not help but feel terrible pain for them and wish that help could have arrived sooner, it is shameful to read what has been written here and elsewhere.

For anyone who followed the entire event, you know that Federal Agencies had pre positioned supplies of all kinds close to the suspected arrival of the hurricane. You know full well that preparations took place well in advance of the storm.

You also know that neither FEMA, nor the National Guard can make a single step forward until requested by local officials.

You also know that most avenues of approach were blocked by floods and blocked roadways for days following landfall.

It is to the skill and bravery and courage of all those who have come to the aid of the people of the Gulf coast that I extend a 'well done'; to the generosity of Americans all across the nation as they reach out and offer help that deserves our gratitude.

The whining of the left, the anti Bush, anti Americans....here and elsewhere is just pathetic.

Thanks jmt....you brought me out of the lurking status....

regards...


amicus...

 

[sophia jane]

Weird Harold says a few snipers cost 48 hours. Damn. Once we knew where there were snipers, having a few thousand National Guard Iraq vets on hand, what the hell is everything taking 48 hours for? Those snipers don't have the vests and the automatic weapons the Guard and the SWAT people do. Does SWAT training tell you never stand in water to do SWAT work? Or were all the SWATs and Guards on the Texas side of the river?

IIRC, part of this is that FEMA ordered people to stop going in while there was sniper fire, wanting to wait until there was a heavier guard presence to stop the shootings.
Which goes back to one of the original questions- why wasn't there a stronger presence to begin with.

 

[Guest]

T - MINUS http://www.backwardsbush.com/index.php and counting!

 

[LadyJeanne]

The whining of the left, the anti Bush, anti Americans....here and elsewhere is just pathetic.

Thanks jmt....you brought me out of the lurking status....

regards...


amicus...

That's right, ami. You and jmt can sit in your comfy homes and praise GWB, FEMA, and DHS for being right there, poised to assist should they perhaps be needed by the local officials. No need for them to BE PROACTIVE in managing a CRISIS they had 4 years to prepare for.

 

[sophia jane]

You know it's funny when people get angry at those who ask questions about why this happened. The only people who should be angry are the people of LA and MS who are suffering, who have lost their homes and belongings, who now have the threat of cholera and dysentery and polluted water, who are effectively homeless with little actual hope for their futures beyond charity. Those are the people who should be angry.
There's nothing wrong with asking questions and being curious about what caused this debacle. There is nothing un-American about these things. And to group everyone together who is questioning the government is ridiculous. I am not a liberal, anti-Bush, anti-American. I'm not that liberal, and until now I was never anti-Bush. I was sitting in the middle of the political mess that our country has been fighting, and for the most part, steering clear of picking a side. I've picked a side now, though, and you can bet it's not on the side of the people who fucked up here, whoever that turns out to be.

 

[cloudy]

The only people who should be angry are the people of LA and MS who are suffering, who have lost their homes and belongings, who now have the threat of cholera and dysentery and polluted water, who are effectively homeless with little actual hope for their futures beyond charity.

Don't forget Alabama. Our southern cities have been hit hard, too. Some wiped completely away.

 

[rgraham666]

Ya know jmt, friend?

Maybe you ought to move to China. They like people that blindly follow their leaders there.

And there's no questioning of government policy or political dissent of any type. At least not for long.

You'd fit in just fine there.

 

[amicus]

Sophia Jane....It is not just a matter of asking questions of how the people on the Gulf Coast could have been better served by government agencies.

The United States suffered a terrorist attack four years ago on 9/11/01, just last year hurricanes devasted Florida. There was perhaps no way to prevent the destruction of Katrina or the failure of the levees around New Orleans, but we will recover, we will go on, we will rebuild, as we have before.

And if we can learn how to provide quicker more effective help from looking back on this storm, we will do that also.

But you can read, you know as well as I, that the 'regular' bush/america haters have used this incident to futher demean us and our way of life.

Americans spend more money on cigarettes each day than the entire E8 countries have offered for assistance during this disaster.

We have individual and states rights here...the military, aka national guard cannot go into an area without being asked by local officials. All they and other federal agencies can do is to try to mobilize and prepare in case they are called upon.

Even people in New Orleans are not being manditorily evacuated, even now, even though it appears to me it is in their best interest.

You folks just don't understand individual freedom, individual rights, states rights and the chain of authority that exists here.

In a collectivist state, you could have ordered and forced the entire population of New Orleans to be evacuated when it was determined that the storm was approaching, in a free society...you cannot do such things...

There should be questioning and investigations to see how things might be done better, but what has been said here, with nothing but speculation, is pure hatred, and visible to all.

But then, pigs in a gutter should expect fleas and mud.

amicus...

 

[LadyJeanne]

But you can read, you know as well as I, that the 'regular' bush/america haters have used this incident to futher demean us and our way of life.

You demean yourself by implying that anyone on this board is an America hater if they don't support Bush.

'Us and our way of life' is exactly what is going on in the South. 'Us and our way of life' leaves people stranded for more than a week without help. 'Us and our way of life' leaves people dead. Don't you care about the protection of life at all costs?

But then, pigs in a gutter should expect fleas and mud.

amicus...

Are you the pig or the flea?

 

[Couture]

Sophia Jane....It is not just a matter of asking questions of how the people on the Gulf Coast could have been better served by government agencies.But you can read, you know as well as I, that the 'regular' bush/america haters have used this incident to futher demean us and our way of life.

But then, pigs in a gutter should expect fleas and mud.

amicus...

You've gotta be kidding me.

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3899/poorjudgement024mp.jpg
Bush plays while people die. San Diego - August 30, 2005

 

[sophia jane]

You demean yourself by implying that anyone on this board is an America hater if they don't support Bush.

'Us and our way of life' is exactly what is going on in the South. 'Us and our way of life' leaves people stranded for more than a week without help. 'Us and our way of life' leaves people dead. Don't you care about the protection of life at all costs?



Are you the pig or the flea?

LJ- have I told you lately how much I you?

 

[amicus]

No, not kidding you...and you just gave a perfect example of the level of your thinking.

While people all over the United States are helping in every way they can, you and your ilk are making political hay.

Is there no limit to your bias and hatred?

Christ, you people are not even people....less than human.


amicus...

 

[LadyJeanne]

LJ- have I told you lately how much I you?

You just did.

 

[Guest]

No, not kidding you...and you just gave a perfect example of the level of your thinking.

While people all over the United States are helping in every way they can, you and your ilk are making political hay.

Is there no limit to your bias and hatred?

Christ, you people are not even people....less than human.


amicus...

Political hay - you mean like mentioning 9/11 at the drop of a hat?

In every speech?

As a reason to go to war?

 

[LadyJeanne]

Christ, you people are not even people....less than human.


amicus...

If you gloss over the reality of what happened, that's exactly what you're saying to the people of Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama.

Is there no limit to your bias and hatred?

 

[Couture]

No, not kidding you...and you just gave a perfect example of the level of your thinking.

While people all over the United States are helping in every way they can, you and your ilk are making political hay.

Is there no limit to your bias and hatred?

Christ, you people are not even people....less than human.


amicus...

I've already sent money to the Red Cross and working on a local fundraising effort. Most people around here are real giving when it comes to things like this after dealing with our own hurricane disaster a few years back.

It's good to know that I'm less than human. I suppose it helps your type deal with the guilt when you turn on the TV and see dead bodies floating in the water.

Looters. Poor people....less than human.

 

[amicus]

Why not play the 'race' card now, Courture..is that not next in your repertoire?


amicus...

 

[amicus]

Oh, sorry...you did play the race card...just in cowardly fashion...


amicus...

 

[shereads]

Do you think you can run a country better?

You're kidding, right?

Even you must think you could run the country better. The standard has never been lower.

 

[Weird Harold]

... I've picked a side now, though, and you can bet it's not on the side of the people who fucked up here, whoever that turns out to be.

This is really the whole isue in a nut-shell. There is, IMHO, more than enough evidence of negligence that rises to the level of criminal negligence, but the question is just what is happening and who is responsible.

As Amicus pointed out, we are a nation with laws that limit what our federal government can do without the request or at least tacit permission of the individual States. The thing that I find most ironic is that the people who are normally bitching about GWB trying to turn the US into a fascist police state are the same people screaming for his head now because he didn't act like the US is already a fascist police state.

The Red Cross site said on their page in answer to the FAQ, "why isn't the RedCross in New Orleans?" said in part, "we were told they did not want the Red Cross inside New Orleans because it would encourage people to stay there and others to return." They attributed that policy to "Lousiana authorities, NOT to Federal authorities.

If true, that's a stupid policy that cost a lot of lives, caused a lot of unnecesary suffering, and is probably prosecutable -- but it is NOT the fault of the federal government or the President unless you're willing to suspend the consitution and states rights to place the blame for that policy on him.

IIRC, part of this is that FEMA ordered people to stop going in while there was sniper fire, wanting to wait until there was a heavier guard presence to stop the shootings.
Which goes back to one of the original questions- why wasn't there a stronger presence to begin with.

According to the Red Cross, it wan't FEMA that blocked them from entering New Orleans, it was the LA National Guard and the LA Department of Homeland Security.

I think asking why the LA National Guard was on the perimeter of the city blocking relief efforts instead of inside the city maintaining law and order is a perfectly reasonable question.

I think it' perfectly reasonble to ask questions about how the NG presence that was there was deployed and who was giving the orders.

But since the LA National Guard in New Orleans was NOT under the command of DHS/FEMA but under the command of the Governer of LA and theMAyor of New Orleans at the time, I don't think asking federal officials is going to get any answers.

When it comes time for pointing fingers and bringing indictments, lets point them in the right direction. I don't think that the right direction is going to point to the federal government as often as people think it is, and NOT because of any political spin or cover-up.

One big question for me is whether all of the problems are in New Orleans, or is that just the problems the media is reporting while ignoring widespread similar problems in the rest of the disaster area.

FWIW, the Sep 6 Katrina update from the AP, mentions that a federal mobile hospital is now in operationin Mississippi and contains the comment, "Mississippi officials said if Lousina doesn't want them, we can use them" -- the mobile hopsital moved from 70 mile north of New Orleans into Mississippi and was operational in just a few hours after sitting for most of two days waiting for permission to start work in Louisina.

I certainly hope those doctors from Georgia who started out about the time Katrina made landfall and drove 30 hours to get within 70 miles of New Orleans documented the names and times of the LA authorities that stopped them from helping New Orleans and the reasons they were not permitted to help -- if the documentation doesn't result in criminal prosecutions, maybe the next of kin to people who died in the beleaguered New Orleans Hospitals the mobile hospital was sent to support can use it in civil wrongful death suits.

Was all of the federal response timely? Probably not but the reasons why it wasn't timely aren't necessarily due to incompetence.

What is inescapably evident that SOME Federal and NGO relief efforts that were not only timely and proactive were blocked by LOCAL authorities for some reason. What is also evident that the cases that the media is reporting[/b[ where locals obstructed relief efforts are excusivley connected to Lousiana and New Orleans.

There is a lot of "blame" at all levels, but if you look at what is NOT in the media, the majority of "blame" is related only to events in Lousiana.

 

[amicus]

Thank you Wierd Harold...is it I before E? anyway...the point is that every agency in the United States was directed towards assisting the people in the afflicted area.

That was and is the goal of all emergency preparation facilities. That some agencies at different levels do not cooperate fully is and always has been a problem.

But for these pukes, yes, pukes, that use a disaster situation to further their political and ideological goals, is obscene and should be pointed out.

I, as many, hope, that should any other disaster befall a community, large or small, natural or terrorist, that our coordination between the assets of community function to relieve suffering as soon as possible.

For those who hate America and what we are, and plan or approve anything that might befall us....you will not bring us down, no matter what.

We expect and plan for terrorist attacks and will do the best we can to survive and rebuild and retaliate. I for one, would be even more preventative than my government is at the present time; I would Nuke you fuckers where you live.

amicus the aborigine....

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

But for these pukes, yes, pukes, that use a disaster situation to further their political and ideological goals, is obscene and should be pointed out.

Damn straight. So you're in complete agreement that Bush's attempt to politicize and take advantage of the tragedy a gross misconduct, the republican's raping of 9/11 to pass everything the mostly democratic victims stood against a gross sin upon their memory, and of course believe that the anti-Americans who are profiteering off the human suffering deserve death for their crimes.

Finally something we can stand in unity on.

Or were you just bullshiting again? I'd hope you're not against America and freedom, amicus. Because communists like you are on a slippery slope and I'd hate to have to nuke you as an enemy of this great nation. Already you have said to hell with aid from foreign countries, an act against this country, its people, and the suffering. I'd hate to think you're just spinning in a right-wing communist diatribe instead of speaking from the heart, because as you say, we need to nuke pukes like that. Nuke their soulless black hearts all the way to Hell.

 

[amicus]

Luc...U are either high, drunk, or as usual, totally irrational, you make no sense at all in your last post...give it a break, chill out..come back for another round at another time...you don't even make the cut for this one...

amicus

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Bwahaha.

Mr. Happy Fun Ball,

Promise me, promise me, you'll never grow a brain. I could never go back to the days when you weren't such heartwarming entertainment. Don't ever change your communsitic america hating ways. They're so preciously cute.