Katrina Disaster

[The_Darkness]

This made me choke on my uvula.

Me too. I nearly had a Mountain Dew colored monitor.

 

[shereads]

Hm. Not that I am beyond contadiction, for I never am, but .... why was not the US prepared? Terrorist or otherwise. Obviously you have money in a hotel. How many of the poor are you helping, now? How many poor did you drive bye to get where you are in a hotel?

Translation?

 

[amicus]

I am sure your soft palate is the concern of many, but not mine.

The tone of this thread continues to degrade as the Left permeates the atmosphere with personal attacks of a political nature on anyone and anything in sight.

It is a natural disaster, much like what could happen in Los Angeles or San Francisco when the 'big one' hits...and it will...or in New York City when a Cat 3 storm rumbles up through Manhattan and you assholes make political hay?

Christ, give ur uvula a break, gag yourself!

 

[The_Darkness]

I am sure your soft palate is the concern of many, but not mine.

The tone of this thread continues to degrade as the Left permeates the atmosphere with personal attacks of a political nature on anyone and anything in sight.

It is a natural disaster, much like what could happen in Los Angeles or San Francisco when the 'big one' hits...and it will...or in New York City when a Cat 3 storm rumbles up through Manhattan and you assholes make political hay?

Angry (and conceptually) right as you might be with some of what I quoted, there was a healthy amount of fucking up when handling this, starting with not updating the levee system of New Orleans several years ago (25, isn't it) when the city engineers said it really needed to be done.

Just as an aside, we're focusing pretty heavily on New Orleans here....how's Mobile and everywhere in between doing?

 

[amicus]

Sighs...Darkness...New Orleans has been pretty much 'unfixable' should a major hurricane strike, and those in the know, knew that.

It is somewhat like any other major coastal city that has grown exponentially over the past 30 years. And quite like California if the San Andreas fault line suffers a major shift, or any major seaport in the face of a Tsunami.

As mentioned before, I lived in both Biloxi and Gulfport and Long Beach, Mississippi and from that interest kept track, as best I could. The area is devastated, beyond what you can imagine. Some friends I was able to contact, survived, others, I have not, I do not know; it is troublesome.

With the Hurricanes in Florida last year, many on Lit were inquiring...with the Gulf Coast, not so many...I fear many Litsters have suffered, but there is still no communication via ethernet....

As an aside...there is a political conflict between left and right, concerning the 'wetlands' in the lower Mississippi Delta region. A complex issue that involves many things, environmental concerns, wildlife concerns, industrial, petroleum and shipping concerns, refining and off shore drilling...all contentious....add too that the political mixture of New Orleans and Louisiana in general and the funding for increased levee protection was again, a matter of political dissention.

For those who have not visited the city, New Orleans is at best, ' sleazy' it is filled with drugs and prostitution and the city itself depends upon tourism, gaudy and without depth.

But then...that is another storyland...(do you know what it means to miss new orleans....) for the odd jazz fan...


amicus...

 

[The_Darkness]

For those who have not visited the city, New Orleans is at best, ' sleazy' it is filled with drugs and prostitution and the city itself depends upon tourism, gaudy and without depth.

But then...that is another storyland...(do you know what it means to miss new orleans....) for the odd jazz fan...


amicus...

Sounds like a wonderland. It's still sad though. There is a lot of history in New Orleans, not the least of which is musical in nature. It'll be depressing as hell to see what's left of Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama.

I'm not going to get real excited about it yet, there's still a few weeks left in hurricane season, and God only knows if it's over for this year yet. That'll be a true test of human nature in general, rescuing the rescuers and seeing exactly when the various governments and government agencies just decide to cut bait and run.

 

[Pure]

Loss of objectivity

Ami: The tone of this thread continues to degrade as the Left permeates the atmosphere with personal attacks

Let's see. In the main Katrina thread you'd reached the point of talking of who loved (you) and who hated (several other 'leftists') the land of the free and the home of the brave. And who were the 'pukes.' I conclude you've departed from reason and have no objective points to make.

Incidentally, I note that you do not even have to intellectual consistency to propose NO role for the federal government in this tri state disaster; there is no enemy invasion, and it only drives up taxes; taxes that we on the left LOVE to see extracted by force from hardworking red-blooded Americans.

Clearly some in LA, for instance, did NOT want Federal help, or at least control, and that, for you is the criterion for NOT acting (i.e, force). Governors are quite capable of voluntary cooperation, either within the disaster area or between it and other states.

At the more local level, the LA police are virtually forcing poeple from their homes (saw one lady with a gun, dragged off), and again, were you consistent you'd be speaking of the NO police abusing their power. (A number of rich folk, mostly Black, were interviewed, whose houses were untouched, and who had water. They do not want to leave things to the looters. It is arguable they should not be forced to.)

Anyway, at some point your calm may return, and, as you do occasionally, you'll stop namecalling and make some interesting--if odd-- objective points. Perhaps the above will serve as a stand-in: what a Randist, 'minimal government' person should be saying.

For other persons reading this thread, there is a BIT of genuine conservative criticism and analysis at

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46243

A Floridian's analysis of Katrina hype, hypocrisy

by John Adams
Posted: September 9, 2005.

The problem of most conservative websites, like the federalist one, is like the problem of some conservative posters in AH: They feel they must do PR for GWB and cronies.

 

[amicus]

There are more than 6 weeks left to the hurricane season and the American people will never, repeat, never, cut bait and run in the face of disaster and you can take that to the bank!

amicus...

 

[The_Darkness]

There are more than 6 weeks left to the hurricane season and the American people will never, repeat, never, cut bait and run in the face of disaster and you can take that to the bank!

amicus...

Normally I'd agree. We are brave to a fault, but if there's another major storm that rocks the area sometime in that 6 weeks...which is more than possible...it could very seriously mess things up for rescuing people and could, infact, turn into an even larger humanitarian aid disaster. I don't think anyone wants to compound the loss of life more than has already happened....and like I said, I'm curious as to where the breaking point might be between being brave and doing the right thing and foolishly throwing one's life into the face of another hurricane.

 

[amicus]

Pure...I think you may have lost it...although the 'left media' has portrayed people being forced from their homes...it is simply not true...according to the news just tonight.

I could not untangle what you were saying about whether I approved of federal assistance. All I have said, which is what I have heard, is that both State and City officials refused to have Federal assistance.

Which is, of course, their right to do.

However, the left media, instead of supporting states rights, immediately proclaimed the failure of 'federal' assistance to help those poor suffering people.

Upon which, enmasse, the Liberal Litsters proclaimed a free for all on the Bush Admin, go figure.

You PUkes, fighting every inch of the way against Federal Homeland Security procedures to protect the 'homeland' all of a sudden want Federal interference regardless of local concerns?

Even the least intellectually able on this shit forum can see that contradiction, do I need to draw you a map?

 

[amicus]

How clever of you to avoid the fact that you did not know the limits of the hurricane season and divert the issue to a supposition that americans are foolishly heroic to a fault.

Is your name really Elsworth Toohey, the gossip columnist in Fountain Head, corrupter of Peter Keating...but then I do not expect you know the references.

 

[Pure]

new weird low

Amicus, apparently to "The Darkness"

Is your name really Elsworth Toohey, the gossip columnist in Fountain Head, corrupter of Peter Keating...but then I do not expect you know the references.

Toohey the sniveling despicable liberal who wants to drag all down to the lowest level, make mediocrity everywhere--and enslave the world.

Life as a Rand novel.

Amicus, of course, as Roark, the creative genuis. sweetsubsarah as Dominique? or would that be Colly?
---

A better analysis might be Ami as Lex Luthor, or as the "Grand Inquisitor" though I don't expect he will know the latter reference.

Yours humbly,

Superhero

 

[The_Darkness]

How clever of you to avoid the fact that you did not know the limits of the hurricane season and divert the issue to a supposition that americans are foolishly heroic to a fault.

Is your name really Elsworth Toohey, the gossip columnist in Fountain Head, corrupter of Peter Keating...but then I do not expect you know the references.

Goddamn. It's like I'm having a discussion with a bad pirate movie. You're not Sicilian by any chance, are you?

Of course I don't know when hurricane season ends! Why the hell would I?! I know vaguely that it's over sometime about the end of October, but I live in Iowa!

When does hail season end? You don't know! My God, your next statement will be some sort of grand diversion from the fact that you don' t know when it can and can't hail in the midwest! HA HA! I've got you now!



Do you even listen to yourself, man? Does that little filter in your brain work? You know, the one that says "Hey, don't say that, you'll only sound like an ass...."

 

[rgraham666]

Does that little filter in your brain work? You know, the one that says "Hey, don't say that, you'll only sound like an ass...."

He doesn't need it Darkness.

As a certified purveyor of 'The Truth™' he has no need of humility or restraint. Only weaklings have any need for those.

 

[Alex756]

The latest elected official to step into the swamp was Rep. Richard H. Baker, a 10-term Republican from Baton Rouge. The Wall Street Journal reported yesterday that he was overheard telling lobbyists: "We finally cleaned up public housing in New Orleans. We couldn't do it, but God did."

Sweet.

Please see full text

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/09/AR2005090901930.html

the pertinant part is what he says he actually said instead of what someone claims they overheard

Baker issued a lengthy statement saying he was "taken aback" by the Journal's brief item. "What I remember expressing, in a private conversation with a housing advocate and member of my staff, was that 'We have been trying for decades to clean up New Orleans public housing to provide decent housing for residents, and now it looks like God is finally making us do it,' " Baker wrote. "Obviously I have never expressed anything but the deepest concern about the suffering that this terrible catastrophe has caused for so many in our state."

Here is a link to his complete statement.

http://baker.house.gov/html/news_item.cfm?id=463

Sneaking around trying to overhear conversations is not becomming of either side.

-Alex

 

[Weird Harold]

Of that, I have no doubt. Of any of it, really. So just to add another question to the mix, where does that put us in a state such as we have in NO? Martial Law has been declared (and may have been lifted by now, I'm not even keeping track any more) so is DHS simply writing checks and supervising clean up and touching on security needs?

I haven't gone to any news sources yet today either, so I'm not sure where things stand today.

I wasn't aware that anyone had gotten enough political backbone to actually declare Martial Law even though Mayor Nagin requested Gov. Blanco to do so over a week ago. However, the effectiveness of declaring Martial Law depends on who declared it and what resources they have to enforce it.

Where we are and how we got there in New Orleans isn't something that can be unraveled just by looking at what the various plans and laws say should happen because the whole mess is the result of people not knowing the plans and laws and/or willfully ignoring them to play political power games.

 

[Guest]

He doesn't need it Darkness.

As a certified purveyor of 'The Truth™' he has no need of humility or restraint. Only weaklings have any need for those.

amicus, the creative genius, tells off the AH pukes.

http://bestsmileys.com/angry2/11.gif


(or maybe he's just saying, "You kids get outta my yard!"

 

[amicus]

How nice to be wanted and loved. I can close my eyes and see the affectionate vibrations spreading out to the world in ever extending circular patterns.

Rather warming, that, eh?

the amicable amicus

 

[minsue]

How nice to be wanted and loved. I can close my eyes and see the affectionate vibrations spreading out to the world in ever extending circular patterns.

Rather warming, that, eh?

the amicable amicus

Oh, ami. For someone who can say, "... you are without shame, without compassion and without honor. But then, I knew that," and then have the audacity to say you meant no personal affront by it, you certainly have a thin skin.

 

[The_Darkness]

Oh, ami. For someone who can say, "... you are without shame, without compassion and without honor. But then, I knew that," and then have the audacity to say you meant no personal affront by it, you certainly have a thin skin.

Methinks it's not his skin that's thin.....

 

[SlickTony]

FYI, the hurricane season lasts through November.

 

[LadyJeanne]

What in the hell are they thinking?? Yanking Brown is probably a good idea, though changing command mid-crisis scares me, but this issue of making it harder to get aid is insane. They promoted the hell out of handing out $2,000 debit cards to victims and then changed their mind? Not that it was the most well thought out plan in the first place, you had to register to get the cards by phone or internet - evacuees don't have the greatest access to either of those at the moment, but how can they promise these people at least a little bit of money and then just say 'never mind' two days later?

Meanwhile, on the other side of the economic spectrum, the corporations that stand to profit are already doing so through no-bid government contracts.


In Storm's Ruins, a Rush to Rebuild and Reopen for Business

By JOHN M. BRODER
Published: September 10, 2005

BATON ROUGE, La., Sept. 9 - Private contractors, guided by two former directors of the Federal Emergency Management Agency and other well-connected lobbyists and consultants, are rushing to cash in on the unprecedented sums to be spent on Hurricane Katrina relief and reconstruction.

From global engineering and construction firms like the Fluor Corporation and Halliburton to local trash removal and road-building concerns, the private sector is poised to reap a windfall of business in the largest domestic rebuilding effort ever undertaken.

Normal federal contracting rules are largely suspended in the rush to help people displaced by the storm and reopen New Orleans and the Gulf Coast. Hundreds of millions of dollars in no-bid contracts have already been let and billions more are to flow to the private sector in the weeks and months to come. Congress has already appropriated more than $62 billion for an effort that is projected to cost well over $100 billion.

Some experts warn that the crisis atmosphere and the open federal purse are a bonanza for lobbyists and private companies and are likely to lead to the contract abuses, cronyism and waste that numerous investigations have uncovered in post-war Iraq.

"They are throwing money out, they are shoveling it out the door," said James Albertine, a Washington lobbyist and past president of the American League of Lobbyists. "I'm sure every lobbyist's phone in Washington is ringing off the hook from his clients. Sixty-two billion dollars is a lot of money - and it's only a down payment."

Joe M. Allbaugh, a close friend of President Bush, the president's 2000 campaign manager and the FEMA director from 2001 to 2003, and James Lee Witt, an Arkansan close to former President Bill Clinton and a former FEMA director, are now high-priced consultants, and they have been offering their services to companies seeking or holding federal contracts in the post-hurricane gold rush.

Mr. Allbaugh said that he was helping private companies, including his clients, cut through federal red tape to speed provision of services and supplies to the storm-wracked region. Two of his major clients, Kellogg Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton, and The Shaw Group, already are at work on disaster response efforts.

..."


New York Times

 

[minsue]

FYI, the hurricane season lasts through November.

Ayup.

 

[Weird Harold]

By JOHN M. BRODER
Published: September 10, 2005

...
...Kellogg Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton, ... already are at work on disaster response efforts.

I don't know what all KB&R are working on in the region, but their main project is clean-up and repair of the naval facilities in the region under a long-standing contract they won the bid for some time ago. I'm not sure when the contract was bid on, 2001 I think the reference I saw said, but it was probably a re-bid anyway; most contracts of that sort stay with the same company winning the bid repeatedly for decades.

Considering that the normal bid process for a government contract takes at least 12 to 18 months, I'm glad the normal contracting requirements are being relaxed whoever is getting the contracts. I'm sure that ther are more than enough contracts availabe to let even a few Democrat sponsors get a job.

 

[shereads]

If anybody's qualified to clean up, it would be a Halliburton subsidiary. Whatever happened to the allegations that Halliburton's Iraq operations had cleaned out us taxpayers to the tune of $100 million in fuel overcharges? Wasn't that bid also awarded in a "relaxed" manner for the sake of expediencey? (Understandable, since Saddam Hussein's WMD program posed an immediate threat to the free world.)

Administration Withheld Halliburton Overcharges from International Auditors
****Commitee on Government Reform Minority Office

****Thursday 17 March 2005

****Rep. Waxman revealed that Administration officials, acting at the request of Halliburton, redacted a Pentagon report to conceal more than $100 million in fuel overcharges from international auditors. In letters to government auditors pdf, Halliburton subsidiary KBR explains that it redacted statements that it considered "factually inaccurate or misleading" and gives consent for the release of the audits to international auditors "in redacted form."

****The Administration then sent the heavily redacted report pdf to the International Advisory and Monitoring Board overseeing the Development Fund for Iraq, the fund established by the U.N. for the management of Iraq’s oil sales and foreign donations.

****An interactive feature reveals the extent of the redactions in the first ten pages of the Pentagon report.

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/9705

{excerpt from DPC Halliburton Hearing transcript.}

Federal News Service June 27, 2005 Monday
Copyright 2005 The Federal News Service, Inc. Federal News Service June 27, 2005
Monday SECTION: PRESS CONFERENCE OR SPEECH LENGTH: 20674 words

HEADLINE: SENATE DEMOCRATIC POLICY COMMITTEE OVERSIGHT HEARING SUBJECT: HALLIBURTON OVERCHARGES IN IRAQ
CHAIRED BY: SENATOR BYRON DORGAN (D-ND)
WITNESSES: BUNNATINE "BUNNY" GREENHOUSE, FORMER CHIEF CONTRACTING OFFICER, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS; RORY MAYBERRY, FORMER HALLIBURTON EMPLOYEE; GARY BUTTERS, LLOYD-OWEN INTERNATIONAL; ALAN WALLER, LLOYD-OWEN INTERNATIONAL

LOCATION: 138 DIRKSEN SENATE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

SEN. DORGAN: Today the policy committee is holding a fifth hearing in a series of hearings on serious problem with Iraqi contracting practices.

In the past hearings we have held have disclosed numerous stories of waste, fraud and abuse involving a good many contractors, including and especially Halliburton, the major U.S. contractor in Iraq.

We've heard at hearings, for example, the billing of 42,000 meals a day for our troops where only 14,000 meals a day were served.

We've heard about Halliburton overcharging for fuel deliveries at twice the price that other suppliers were offering, overcharges that added up to hundreds of millions of dollars.

We heard about new $85,000 trucks abandoned or torched along the road if they got a flat tire or experienced mechanical problems such as a plugged fuel pump because the company couldn't be bothered to fix the problems...

{Etc. For the 44 page PDF go to http://lautenberg.senate.gov/images/Documents/DPC Halliburton Hearing.pdf. }

The rich are different.