Judaism

[Dallass_Drake]

Never have I had the pleasure of meeting a person who was vociferously Jewish, perhaps at times I have been struck with certain suspicions but these are really a result of my vehement yet ignorant adherence to stereotyping, and this, combined with my atheism, means I know not a jot about what may characterise a Jewish rose's personality save for various generalisations TV has afforded me, which have suprisingly failed to imbue me with definitive answers to my current thoughts.

Does their religion prove a very substantial hindrance to their sex lives?
What kind of threats does it provide against promiscuity?
Are these often heeded (ie Are the consequences seen as worrysome or relatively minor?)?
Is it very much frowned upon for a Jewish woman to marry someone of a different religion or is that easily overlooked provided they are willing to convert?
Even if a Jew only casually follows their religion, are there still practices they generally feel obligated to participate in regardless?
Are marriages between Jews and non-Jews a possibility or does it have to require a conversion from one party?

Any knowledge put forward would be appreciated. Also I have no intention to cause any offence, I have nothing against Judaism in particular and my reasons for asking such questions are the very definition of noble.

 

[silverwhisper]

i happen to correspond w/ a gentleman who was trained to be an orthodox rabbi. understand that there are several forms of judaism. in the US, the most popular is reform judaism, which arose as a reaction to the historical persecution of jews. for a religious tradition that values their texts as they do, reform inspires considerable contempt from non-reform jews. therefore, what a reform jew may find acceptable an orthodox jew may not. orthodox jews practice their faith much as they have for milennia.

jews have their holy works (for discussion purposes most easily described as the jewish bible, as the distinction of old testament/new testament is quite offensive to them), but also have a rec'd set of musings and decisions on how to interpret various biblical teachings correctly. this body of collected wisdom is called the rambam.

1. hetero sex is not permitted during the week prior and after a woman's period. i'm fuzzy on the exact reasoning but as w/ so much about what is/is not permitted, it's in the rambam.
2. promiscuity is a tangled issue but generally, it's very, very bad and IIRC, leviticus does permit stoning. however, i believe in modern times, a less lethal punishment is permitted.
3. consequences are sometimes dependent upon people being aware. therefore, if a man seduces another man's wife and is found out, you better believe there's consequences.
4. conversion is a huge issue for jews, esp as jewish lineage is traced through the mother. the mother of a good friend of mine converted to orthodox judaism to be able to marry my friend's father. o, and btw: there are instructions in the torah and the rambam re: the appropriate response to conversion efforts by non-jews. they are unpleasant.
5. this depends upon which form of judaism a given jew follows, but almost every jew i know (of whatever stripe) will: honor the sabbath (friday night to saturday evening), keep kosher (dietary laws are very, very strict) and circumcise their sons.

i hope this is of some use to you. if you need to determine whether someone is reform or orthodox, it shouldn't be hard to figure it out.

ed

 

[Dallass_Drake]

Thanks for the prompt response It has certainly clarified a few things, although it has also informed me further of my lack of knowledge.

Regarding promiscuity, does the severity of such offences correlate with the faith of her partners? For example, if she beds twenty Jews would she be shunned in the same way if she bedded twenty non-jews?

Primary of my curiosities is of course in determining how sexual relationships between the two are viewed by the Jewish community, although I entirely realise any such answers I receive may just be based on assumption and perhaps an unfair representation but any experiences related would be appreciated. I have previously been told in the case of males, relationships with non-jews are indeed frowned upon but are commonly accepted, I mean no offence by implying women are treated differently but as is likely obvious I don't know much about religion.

 

[Ezzy]

It will be a left field opinion, but from my experience you are better off requesting the information from Jews.

You would for the most part not be shunned any more than you are now, if you were to phone the nearest synagog and ask to speak to the Rabbi, they are men and women, who will be willing, open and able to answer questions and querries that gentiles ask in a serious way.

They also have a great sense of humor, so if they laugh and joke with you it is just to show they are human too.

 

[ohgingeroh]

from a Jew

REFORM is definitely NOT the most practiced/popular in the US. Orthodox is. I myself am Conservative. Keep kosher, but do not observe Shabbat.

If you have any religious law questions (Halachic - pertaining to Jewish law) the best place to find information is askmoses.com there is a Rabbi there 24/6.

As for conversion: We don't forcefully convert. We are very wary of converts, They must be asked three times to prove they want to do it.

Jewish Lineage is passed down from the mother, although Reform Jews consider it passed down from the father. So while it is no means accepted... it is easier to deal with a woman marrying a gentile (non-Jew) if they plan to raise the child Jewish (definitely more accepted in Reform/Reconstructionist circles). A Conservative Rabbi would not marry a interfaith couple. Some Reform rabbis wont do it either.
Promiscuity is always not allowed. However, Conservatives and Reform positions differ from the Orthodox regarding Pre-martial sex, etc. I.e. If the couple are serious but not married, versus one-night stands.

Most (i think its 70 percent) of Jews observe atleast the High Holidays: Rosh Hashana (The Jewish New year), Yom Kippur (The Day of Atonement) and Pesach (Passover).

As for premarital sex (from the Jewishvirtuallibrary.org) "Many people are surprised to learn that the Torah does not prohibit premarital sex. I challenge you to find any passage in the Jewish scriptures that forbits a man from having consensual sexual relations with any woman he could legally marry. It's just not there!

[i think you'll find http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/sex.html very interesting]

Nor is there any passage that requires a man to marry a woman after having consensual sexual relations with her. The passage forcing a man to marry the woman deals with rape (the man seizes her). It says nothing about consensual relations. Some say that consensual sexual relations create a common law marriage, which can only be dissolved through divorce, though the law on this point is not clear.

This is not to suggest that Judaism approves of pre-marital sex or promiscuity. Quite the contrary: traditional Judaism strongly condemns the irresponsibility of sex outside of marriage. It is considered to be improper and immoral, even though it is not technically a sin. In fact, to prevent such relations, Jewish law prohibits an unmarried, unrelated man and woman from being alone long enough to have sexual relations. But these laws come from the Talmud and the Shulchan Aruch, not from the Torah."

Btw, the Talmud is the Oral tradition written down, the Torah is the Old Testament.

Feel free to ask anything else,

tt

 

[silverwhisper]

OGO:

i'm confused as to how you do not keep shabbos, although that's perhaps a topic for a different thread, esp given the lengths to which orthodox jews will go to do no work on shabbos.

ed

 

[Dallass_Drake]

Thanks for all the replies, very interesting and enlightening, but certainly is seems a somewhat complex situation so I'll follow the advice about contacting a Rabbi. Although it couldn't hurt to ask a few more questions here:

In terms of obligations regarding common Jewish practices, I was thinking about perhaps more noticeable, day to day activities. I assume, from 'The Big Lebowski', shabbos occurs every week as a rest period (Obviously, if I'm wrong mock me) but are Jews vehement in their adherence to this? I couldn't imagine that being followed as much as it perhaps should be. Also, do Jews have to attend temple and such? Are they basically the same as Churches in principle? ie, Can you can just turn up whenever you want?

 

[CopyCarver]

Random Thoughts

Thanks for all the replies, very interesting and enlightening, but certainly is seems a somewhat complex situation so I'll follow the advice about contacting a Rabbi. Although it couldn't hurt to ask a few more questions here:

In terms of obligations regarding common Jewish practices, I was thinking about perhaps more noticeable, day to day activities. I assume, from 'The Big Lebowski', shabbos occurs every week as a rest period (Obviously, if I'm wrong mock me) but are Jews vehement in their adherence to this? I couldn't imagine that being followed as much as it perhaps should be. Also, do Jews have to attend temple and such? Are they basically the same as Churches in principle? ie, Can you can just turn up whenever you want?

As a lifelong agnostic, my knowledge of Torah and Talmud are virtually nonexistent. If you want doctrine, rabbis are the obvious source since every rabbi I've ever known (socially, of course) was extremely knowledgable and articulate.

In terms of personal beliefs and practices, I think you may be hunting unicorns if you're trying to learn what Jews do or think as a monolithic bloc. Like every other religion, nationality, profession, economic class, or other demographic group, the entire concept of "the Jews" is erroneous. "The Jews" are a very large group of individuals whose religious beliefs, social practices, and lifestyles vary as greatly as those of "the New Yorkers" or "the Italians" or "the tall people."

 

[Talon1579]

In terms of personal beliefs and practices, I think you may be hunting unicorns if you're trying to learn what Jews do or think as a monolithic bloc. Like every other religion, nationality, profession, economic class, or other demographic group, the entire concept of "the Jews" is erroneous. "The Jews" are a very large group of individuals whose religious beliefs, social practices, and lifestyles vary as greatly as those of "the New Yorkers" or "the Italians" or "the tall people."

Thank you. For example, I was born jewish but live my life as an atheist. I know you dont mean it that way, but you are pushing jews into a category, just because they are a smaller group, unlike christianity or islam.

 

[Dallass_Drake]

I do of course realise my questions don't account for diversity, but I am basically trying to establish stereotypical views of Jews to aid in my understanding. I don't mean to offend in this desiring this, I have stereotypical views on everything including other religions and indeed Atheism, but as I hinted at earlier I have no desire to actually become Jewish in the same way I never had any desire to be a Christian, and this is perhaps why my questions didn't sufficiently account for the obvious intricacies that could be expected in all religions, a rather simplistic knowledge is none the less better than a complete lack of.

 

[jujee]

I love this thread! Post more! Post more!

I've always had this odd fascination with Judaism.

I, myself, am a Christian, just that, no particular denomination. And I can definitely relate to the whole "classifed into a stereotype" thing. Many a time I have found myself sighing, just shaking my head because people assume so many things about me when I state my religion.

I am very interested in this thread! Would love to learn more about Jewish life.

Okay, maybe for selfish reasons. I've always found myself incredibily attracted to Jewish men, but, alas, have accepted the fact that it is never meant to be. I'm not about to convert, and I'd lose much respect for someone who would give up their faith so easily for me.

Do post more though! I'm all ears... err... eyes.

 

[FastFastr]

I do of course realise my questions don't account for diversity, but I am basically trying to establish stereotypical views of Jews to aid in my understanding. I don't mean to offend in this desiring this, I have stereotypical views on everything including other religions and indeed Atheism, but as I hinted at earlier I have no desire to actually become Jewish in the same way I never had any desire to be a Christian, and this is perhaps why my questions didn't sufficiently account for the obvious intricacies that could be expected in all religions, a rather simplistic knowledge is none the less better than a complete lack of.

You really can not establish "stereotypical" views of Jews. It is like trying to so the same with Christians. Yes, all Christians agree that Jesus died for their sins, but then the splits occur... same in Judaism.

As far as the questions that you asked, from my POV as a reformed Jew, here are answers:


Does their religion prove a very substantial hindrance to their sex lives?

Judaism encourages demonstration of love (sex) between married people. There are really no restrictions on birth control, yet like most religions, life is sacred and abortion is no acceptable-- although the resistance is not as strong as in the Catholic Church. It is actually a mitzvah (good deed for lack of a better explanation) to have sex with your spouse on the Sabbath.


What kind of threats does it provide against promiscuity?

No threats really. The 10 Commandments, part of the Old Testament and the Torah says "thou shalt not commit adultery... or covet thy neighbors' wife. Like all religions, Jews should seek to lead an ethical and moral life.

Are these often heeded (ie Are the consequences seen as worrisome or relatively minor?) Like members of any religion, some are moral, some are not.

Is it very much frowned upon for a Jewish woman to marry someone of a different religion or is that easily overlooked provided they are willing to convert? It is generally frowned upon. More conservative Jews may disown children who marry out of the religion, others accept it.

Even if a Jew only casually follows their religion, are there still practices they generally feel obligated to participate in regardless? Overall, most Jews observe the major holidays, and with VERY few exceptions every Jewish male is circumcised.


Are marriages between Jews and non-Jews a possibility or does it require a conversion from one party? Reform Jews sometimes marry out of the religion, but this is generally frowned upon.