Joyful reviews

[joy_of_cooking]

@big_cane_sugar sure looking at my slutty cheerleader fantasy now. One question: are you any of a gymnast, a cheerleader, or an Olympic weightlifter? And how much do you care about getting those details right?

 

[big_cane_sugar]

@big_cane_sugar sure looking at my slutty cheerleader fantasy now. One question: are you any of a gymnast, a cheerleader, or an Olympic weightlifter? And how much do you care about getting those details right?

I was a mediocre high school athlete (football, basketball/wrestling, track) and I still work out as a hobby. No other relevant experience. I've never even known a truly elite gymnast, cheerleader, or weightlifter. But I'd love to get the details right! I tried to do so without getting lost in technical weeds that few readers would care about.

Edit: But I care more about symbolism and wordplay than about anything else, even if no reader ever notices that stuff lol. For example, 345 pounds is 69x5, an almost impossible-to-catch reference to his fantasy going into the conversation with the four cheerleaders. That silliness matters more to me than what weights we would actually put on a bar.

I guess another example is that big-time competitive cheerleading programs aren't as likely to be recruiting guys out of the gym, but I guess it could happen so I'm fudging that a bit for the sake of the plot.

What really matters is that the bad boy toxic alphahero goes through the kind of transformation we might expect a guy in that situation to go through if he comes out decent on the other side. And that the "slutty cheerleader fantasy" motif makes sense in spite of it.

 

[AG31]

Thanks, @big_cane_sugar for Liking my post. It reminded me of a very pleasant interchange with @joy_of_cooking from a year and a half ago. I'd completely forgotten about it.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

My Slutty Cheerleader Fantasy by @big_cane_sugar

As a warning, my reviews tend to focus on the negative because that's what I look for when people review my own stories and what I think is valuable for getting better. So we'll get right into that.

First, the suspension of disbelief:

I found my suspension of disbelief challenged from the get-go by Chad doing heavy jerks with his gymnastics coach and then doing a cupie for his cheerleading tryout. These two scenes are not only implausible but unnecessarily implausible. A reader's suspension of disbelief is a precious thing. I try not to ask for it unnecessarily.

Why is an alleged gymnast putting in the movement-specific technique work to develop a 150kg jerk? That's way more than can be justified for cross-training, especially in gymnastics. Gymnasts, especially older gymnasts, are famous for not lifting.

If I understand correctly, the point of the jerk was to catch the cheerleaders' attention. Gymnastics has no shortage of flashy skills he could be practicing when these cheerleaders see him, especially if he's supposed to be a god of the floor exercise.

As for the cupie, why would any coach let an unknown base do such a risky stunt? You could have had him do a safer skill in his tryout, like a thigh stand, and learn later how risky cheerleading was.

It could even be part of his character growth, going from a solo sport (gymnastics) to a team sport where people are entrusting you with not only their score but their life and limb.

Speaking of Chad's character:

You do a good job showing us how awful Chad is at the beginning. He comes from money, he bums around taking classes for fun in between his jet setting escapades, he sleeps his way through a rotating cast of literally anonymous women. There's not much to him, at the beginning.

Unfortunately, there's not much more to him even at the end. I would have liked to see more growth from Chad.

For example, you tell but don't show how Rosa changed his mind on various political issues. You could have dwelled on that more. They come from different backgrounds, she's super smart, and he actually cares about her opinion. It could have been an opportunity for Rosa to see that he wasn't so awful, and for him to grow a bit.

Another direction: maybe his journey can be about learning to care about things. His wealth makes him invulnerable to most consequences. He doesn't care about graduating on time. He doesn't care about getting kicked off the team. Arguably, he doesn't care about training the way conventionally regarded as effective for gymnastics. It could have been interesting for us to see him realize that for once he does care about Rosa.

The best parts of this story are when Rosa and Chad are flirting with each other. When they swear each other to chastity, when they dance in class, when they horse around on the beach, these were a pleasure to read. They felt very natural. Similarly, the bit where Rosa gets her friend do the "hearts" plural line, that was fun. You did a good job with the slow burn here.

Maybe you could even have leaned into that a bit more. Let him be tempted by a cute girl. Let him struggle with his promise to remain chaste.

But now I'm talking about the story I wanted you to write. Let's get back to what you did write.

When Chad and Rosa finally have sex I found the whole scene a little off.

First of all, he said "fucking" so much it became repetitive. I got semantically satiated on "fucking."

In general, the dirty talk felt a little over the top considering that Rosa is an until-recently-devout Catholic and probably a virgin. I could have believed that she was repressed and reveling in her liberation and so on, but you didn't lay the groundwork for that. It felt out of character for her.

I didn't understand the "slutty" thing. She has sex with one guy, after a full year of flirtation? This is...not what I consider slutty, not for a sex story. I could believe it's what she thinks is slutty, or that it's a joke between them to call her a slut despite the disparity in their body counts, but it was hard to believe that she could unironically be his fantasy of a slutty cheerleader.

I found the pregnancy at the end baffling. It sounded like you were suggesting she might have sabotaged her birth control in order to baby trap him. Did you mean to plant that suspicion in our minds? Because that's not a nice thing to do and Rosa has until then been quite a nice girl.

The setup where the cheerleaders aren't allowed to sleep with each other is good. It adds a lot of tension and tease to the story. Ryan, though, could have been done better. He's too transparently jealous. He makes up stories to the coaches? It's hard to imagine the rest of the team putting up with that. I would have found it more plausible if the coaches had taken more of a lead on punishing Chad and Rosa's transgression.

I've said a bunch of negative things. I want to close by reminding you that this story is currently sitting at 4.76. This is as high as I've ever scored. It is not a bad story. It's quite a good story and you're right to be proud of it.

 

[big_cane_sugar]

My Slutty Cheerleader Fantasy by @big_cane_sugar

Thank you so much! I'll definitely use this advice in my re-write. In general, Chad obviously needs more story. I don't think I will do the political angle but I'll think of something else. I don't actually want him to grow too much; instead, in the backstory I'm adding to the new version, he's been much worse than he has become.

Several reviewers objected to the "slut" stuff so I've made that a more central and natural part of their story in the new version.

I definitely intended to suggest that Rosa "baby trapped" him - a wonderful term I should have known before and might use in the next draft! I hope the story from her POV makes sense that way. A working-class girl feeling mistreated by her family, enamored of the ease and luxury of this guy's life.... I didn't think of her as actually being as holy as Chad thinks she is. Seems like you picked up on that since you write that she's "probably" a virgin. I'm thinking she's not, but I don't want Chad to think that. I'll definitely have to think about how to make it more obvious that she might not be everything Chad imagines.

Such a great review. You've given me a lot to think about and the next version will be better thanks to you. Thank so you so much!

 

[joy_of_cooking]

working-class girl feeling mistreated by her family, enamored of the ease and luxury of this guy's life

That's a very sympathetic and plausible motivation. Just show it a little more and I think it'd really work.

 

[big_cane_sugar]

That's a very sympathetic and plausible motivation. Just show it a little more and I think it'd really work.

Thank you! I'll let you know when the new one is up in case you're willing to give it a read. Probably a few days away still.