John Walker Lindh: Traitor?

[Weevil]

So, I understand the anger directed at this man. Believe me, I feel it. No member of the Taliban is anything close to a decent human being in my book(And I've felt that way since well before 9/11)

But is the kid a traitor? I understand that he was born and raised in the US. But then he moved to Afghanistan, joined the reigning thugs and became a member of their cadre of idiots.

Flash forward to Sept 11 of 2001. The USA is bombed by people aided and supported by the Taliban and the US declares war on the taliban(or Afghanistan) John Walker Lindh fights for the Taliban.

So he's not a good person. Not a moral person. But where's the treason? He cast his lot with the Taliban and fought for them. He didn't secretly join them. He moved there, stayed there for a while and then, when the country he was born in declared war on the country he was living in now, fought for his country of choice.

 

[Starblayde]

So he's not a good person. Not a moral person.

But if you're (or 'if one is', rather) an Islamic fundamentalist then he's a good and moral person....

Does your religion come before or after you 'allegiance' to your country?

 

[Weevil]

Re: Re: John Walker Lindh: Traitor?

But if you're (or 'if one is', rather) an Islamic fundamentalist then he's a good and moral person....

Does your religion come before or after you 'allegiance' to your country?

Whatever. The first point you make is beside the point.

As to the second one, I don't think that applies. His country was Afghanistan. The people he had pledged allegiance to were the Taliban. In a very minor sense was the United States "his" country.

 

[sch00lteacher]

http://www.frikinidiot.com/duh.jpg

 

[Starblayde]

Well then

I blame the media, or rather your media. Nationalistic, Jingoistic and usually wrong

 

[Starblayde]

Well then

I blame the media, or rather your media. Nationalistic, Jingoistic and usually wrong

Wait, all tabloid media is like that... its just i'm enlgish so i'm not to bothered by john walker mohammed....whatever...


DAMMIT... pressed quote instead of edit

 

[Weevil]

I blame the media, or rather your media. Nationalistic, Jingoistic and usually wrong

Are they? Sure they're noisy and boring but they cover a decent hockey game.

I'm Canadian, Fuckwad.

 

[Starblayde]

Are they? Sure they're noisy and boring but they cover a decent hockey game.

I'm Canadian, Fuckwad.

like i can tell from your post....?

And i wasn't aware that hockey games ever approached 'decent'....

 

[Problem Child]

Did he keep his U.S. citizenship, or did he renounce it? If he renounced it, then I'd say he's simply a POW (or detainee- whatever the technical term is). If he kept it along with all the rights and priveliges that go with it, then he's a traitor.

 

[Weevil]

like i can tell from your post....?

And i wasn't aware that hockey games ever approached 'decent'....

What's your problem with hockey? Not enough thrilling 0-0 draws for your liking?

My point, made harshly, was that you assumed for some reason that I was American which is as Dopey as me going off on you for not knowing I was Canadian.

 

[Weevil]

If he kept it along with all the rights and priveliges that go with it, then he's a traitor.

Isn't that superfluous, though? If he didn't go through with the formal process of renouncing his citizenship I'm sure that as a soldier of the Taliban he didn't avail himself of any of the rights and privileges you speak of.

 

[Starblayde]

Yeah, sorry.... I saw the thread as a US-centred question, so assumed it would be an american posting it... sorry

Anyway nil-nil draws can be extremely boring or can be extremely exciting if the teams are playing well and the goalies are having god-like performances.

But then again a 11-0 victory can be boring if you're a neutral or the team getting whupped.

The three best football matches i've ever seen on tv were all draws. 3-3, 3-3 and 2-2 (which the bloody argentines beat us on penalties! )

 

[Problem Child]

Isn't that superfluous, though? If he didn't go through with the formal process of renouncing his citizenship I'm sure that as a soldier of the Taliban he didn't avail himself of any of the rights and privileges you speak of.

I think it's about intent. If he went to Afghanistan and intended on staying there and living as a Taliban, then fine with me. He should have renounced his U.S. citizenship. But if he retained it with thoughts of returning to the U.S. once his little fling with radical Islam was over, the he's a traitor.

It's a moot point, since it looks like they aren't going to try him as a traitor.

 

[Weevil]

Yeah, sorry.... I saw the thread as a US-centred question, so assumed it would be an american posting it... sorry

Anyway nil-nil draws can be extremely boring or can be extremely exciting if the teams are playing well and the goalies are having god-like performances.

But then again a 11-0 victory can be boring if you're a neutral or the team getting whupped.

The three best football matches i've ever seen on tv were all draws. 3-3, 3-3 and 2-2 (which the bloody argentines beat us on penalties! )

Which is a big fancy way of admitting that soccer is as exciting as watching your teeth dry.

 

[Weevil]

I think it's about intent. If he went to Afghanistan and intended on staying there and living as a Taliban, then fine with me. He should have renounced his U.S. citizenship. But if he retained it with thoughts of returning to the U.S. once his little fling with radical Islam was over, the he's a traitor.

It's a moot point, since it looks like they aren't going to try him as a traitor.

Ah. Well, then, all is well with the world.

 

[Starblayde]

Footbll - We doint need cheerleaders to get chants and song going. (Although a bevy of scantuly clad beauties is fine by me)

We dont need music to get the crowd (anywhere between 50 to 100k) excited... Go to Spain, Go to Italy, go to South America. See the passion. (#hear the roar, thunderctas are loose# )

If the game is bad and the overpaid underworkered players play bad then we boo. Otherwise we'll cheer.

It can be extremley exciting, it can be boring. Its a game. Which I love.

Simple. As. That.

 

[Weevil]

Footbll - We doint need cheerleaders to get chants and song going. (Although a bevy of scantuly clad beauties is fine by me)

We dont need music to get the crowd (anywhere between 50 to 100k) excited... Go to Spain, Go to Italy, go to South America. See the passion. (#hear the roar, thunderctas are loose# )

If the game is bad and the overpaid underworkered players play bad then we boo. Otherwise we'll cheer.

It can be extremley exciting, it can be boring. Its a game. Which I love.

Simple. As. That.

Everything you just said applies to Hockey too. Except the "it can be boring part"

Plus we have cool trophies. You have a twisted, gnarled, golden hand.

Soccer sucks.

 

[Starblayde]

Everything you just said applies to Hockey too. Except the "it can be boring part"

Plus we have cool trophies. You have a twisted, gnarled, golden hand.

12 guys in pads on ice, coming on and going off as they please, going for a puck that is damn difficult to see on the tv?...wow.... fun


You have big-ass trophies that Stanley Cup one, right?. Ultimately we have a 12" high solid gold trophy, which is two angels propping up the globe.

Oh yeah and pretty much the whole world plays football. Does the whole world play ice hockey? i dont think so.

Go figure.

 

[Weevil]

12 guys in pads on ice, coming on and going off as they please, going for a puck that is damn difficult to see on the tv?...wow.... fun


You have big-ass trophies that Stanley Cup one, right?. Ultimately we have a 12" high solid gold trophy, which is two angels propping up the globe.

Oh yeah and pretty much the whole world plays football. Does the whole world play ice hockey? i dont think so.

Go figure.

Yeah, I'm sure it must suck for you to have to put up with goals being scored.

Any ways, the puck isn't hard to see. There are about 12 cooler looking trophies in Hockey than the World Cup and yes you're right the whole world doesn't play hockey. Just Canada, The US, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, France, England, Italy, Russia, all of the breakaway Soviet Republics, Japan and countless others.

Soccer sucks. 22 wimpy guys who don't have the skill or coordination to put a ball into a 30' wide net more than once or twice a game. Wake me up when it's over.

 

[Starblayde]

Yeah, I'm sure it must suck for you to have to put up with goals being scored.

well thats 'cos i'm a centre-back.... de-fen-der....

22 wimpy guys

oh i was waiting for that arguement to come out. We're so wimpy, we dont need pads and helmts...

Go here for a badly done website (which is all i could find in 30 seconds). I've been told this tends to shut up people who think footballers are pussies. Plus have you ever had studs raked down the back of your unprotected thigh? Dont come crying to me

who don't have the skill or coordination to put a ball into a 30' wide net more than once or twice a game.

you ever tried it With four guys in front of you who can only go for the ball and one guy who gets to dive around and use his hands.

just Keep on whining...

 

[RhumbRunner13]

Is this a "First" here?

Weevil posts a thread, and then,

highjacks it himself???

RhumbRunner

 

[Guest]

oh i was waiting for that arguement to come out. We're so wimpy, we dont need pads and helmts...

Go here for a badly done website (which is all i could find in 30 seconds). I've been told this tends to shut up people who think footballers are pussies. Plus have you ever had studs raked down the back of your unprotected thigh? Dont come crying to me

you ever tried it With four guys in front of you who can only go for the ball and one guy who gets to dive around and use his hands.

just Keep on whining... [/B]

You could have possibly argued that soccer is a more skillful game. Or better because of it's international flavour(you'd be wrong either way) but arguing that it's rougher than hockey? That's insane.

In one game in high school I:

1) Was bodychecked many times, often by guys weighing 200+ pounds and going 20+ mph
2) Hit in the ribs with a two handed swing of a solid wood stick
3) Hit in the forehead with a slap shot going around 90 mph
4) Got into a fist fight with a guy who was my height (6'4) but had 60 pounds on me(he was 230)

Every one of those occurences is common in Hockey and every single time that happened I just got back up and kept playing. What happens in soccer? Every now and then someone gets tripped. And then they lie in agony on the grass for 10 minutes.

You want injuries? Does any injury ever in soccer compare to Bill Masterton who died on the ice? Or Clint Malarchuk who had his neck sliced open by a skate?

That website is nothing. I've been sliced open, had ribs, ankles, toes and fingers broken, had teeth knocked out and received two concussions. That website represents tough soccer injuries. If so than you have no legs to stand on.

See, what those pads and helmets encourage is that we act with total disregard with our bodies going faster than 90% of people could possibly run right into other people.

Christ, Baseball players take more punishment than the pansies who play soccer.

Yeah, you try scoring a goal with 5 people in pads who don't want to let you shoot, one guy in net who almost takes up the whole net and not being allowed to use your feet, just a hard to control stick. And everyone trying to stop me can use whatever body part they please. And I still managed to score every now and then, despite the fact that I played as a Defenseman.

Soccer sucks.

 

[Starblayde]

FOR FUCK'S SAKE

There only fucking GAMES.....

on ice on ice, one is on grass. one is 11 a side, the other is 5 or 6 or whatever a side.

ball - puck

pads - sans pads

big and violent scandinavians - somewhat smalelr and less violent scandinavidans

Oh and only brits dont roll around on the floor.... thats cos we dont cheat.

"oh no he breathed in my general direction! Ref, award me a penalty!" - type stuff

 

[sigh]

apparently we're not talking about the traitor thing anymore, are we? (i'm so very observant)

me, i'm a new fan of curling...takes shuffleboard to a whole new level

 

[WriterDom]

Hockey is proof that Redneckism isn't indigenous to the southern part of the U.S.

Soccer is a great sport. - for girls.

Johnny Walker is a spoiled little liberal rich shit. If he were a man, he would plead guilty and save the expense of a trial.