Jesus Death question for all

[Isabella Thorne]

Miss Thorne, I hadn't heard that Jesus was a Californian, but it explains so much.

but oh dear Miss Creamy ... Jesus was also a Californian WOMAN ...

 

[naudiz]

LOL!

Belatedly, alas, but that was great, Isabella.

 

[scylis]

most likely the truth..

Jesus was most likely married and so was no virgin when he died
there is evidence to suggest he was married to Mary Magdalin(sp?).. sure, nothing is said about it in the bible, but nothing was said to the contrary, as well.. the idea of priests taking a vow of celebacy came several hundred years after Jesus died.. Rabbis don't take such vows.. never have.. people see Jesus as being pure and to have never sinned, therefore he was virginal, not having partaken of "the sins of the flesh".. sex is a part of life, a most important part, in fact.. christians believe that Jesus is part of their God come down to earth to live as a man, so why shouldn't he have experienced one of the most precious of a human's life experiences? and furthermore, in no religion i know of is sex within marrage considered a sin, so he would still remain "without sin"..

Pontious Pilate(sp?) never regretted crusifying Jesus
and why should he? Jesus was a traitor to the Roman Empire by it's laws.. it was his DUTY to stop any and all actual or possible rebellions against the Roman Empire.. and i'd call being able to attract a crowd of 10,000 back in those days as a BIG threat, if i were him.. and the story about him wanting to free Jesus and the crowd saying to free Barabus instead is all false.. Barabus is actually the man's SURNAME.. his full name was JESUS Barabus... the crowd was really crying out for Pilate to free Jesus, so he freed Jesus... Jesus Barabus.. the story in the bible is a complete fabrication by the deciples to show the Pharasies in a bad light..

i could go on, but the rest is a little fuzzy at the moment...

 

[Bobtoad777]

yeah that is the fuzziest thing I have ever heard and I have read 3 times as many books on this from the secular pagan traditions than I have from my own christians views and have never even read anything like that.

well yes I have it was in the national enquirer bext to liz taylor marring bigfoot.

i guess maybe i been reading the wrong secular history books.

 

[scylis]

first off, it's fuzzy b/c it's been a few years since came across all that..

secondly, that's b/c most secular "pagan" stuff concentrates on nockin' Christianity in other ways...

and that would be the Weekly World News that you're thinking of, BT... [sarcasm]i wouldn't believe that particular tabloid if it said we won WWII or that the world was round!![/sarcasm]

 

[Bobtoad777]

seriously though I would like it if you could find the book that you did get that from, I think it would be rather interesting reading, if it had that to say on those two topics I would love to read what it has to say on other topics in religion as well.

I have heard mayn renditions on the Mary/Jesus wedding in all the books I have but most of them agree with the bible on the fact of there being the two spereate people barabus and jesus that the crowd was cheering of.

yes I am christian but christain history especailly pagan and secular views of it intrigue me, so if you happen to run across that book or books again please let me know title author ans book code so i can try and get it please.

 

[ravenna]

Particularly considering that Barabbas was supposed to be a murderer...


If I remember correctly: actually, the breaking-legs part of crucifixion was supposed to be an act of mercy. The legs of the victim were broken so that he'd die sooner... instead of dying of dehydration and slow suffocation under his own weight.

I don't recall how reliable the sources I got this from were, though; it's not in my usual sourcebooks, which mostly focus on medieval-European torture and execution techniques. Roman-style crucifixion had been largely given up by then...

 

[CreamyLady]

Barabbas was a thief, not a murderer.

Breaking the legs was not merciful. It was to prevent any possibility of escape. The victims were given neither food nor water, nor any possible painkiller.

Their broken bodies were tied to wooden crosses, and they were left to die of dehydration and exposure.

 

[scylis]

i think they got the Jesus Barabus thing from anchient Roman records, if i remember right... never did belive that Pilate didn't want to have Jesus (of Nazareth) crusified... and i can't remember where i read it, but it was also in a show that i saw on the Discovery Channel at about the same time, too..

and the breaking the legs as an act of mercy (from Romans, anyway) is entirely accurate.. not only medival texts, but Roman records say as much..

 

[Bobtoad777]

Barabbas was a thief, not a murderer.

Breaking the legs was not merciful. It was to prevent any possibility of escape. The victims were given neither food nor water, nor any possible painkiller.

Their broken bodies were tied to wooden crosses, and they were left to die of dehydration and exposure.

Actually creamlady secular sources as christian sources split almost 50/50 on the leg breaking issue of the crucifiction style of execution

some say it was to speed the death because it would have them dead before any "sacred" days of the week. some say it was so if they could possibly wriggle there way out of the ropes or nails whatever hung them up there they would not be able to run away.

what seemed to be in agreeance the worst of the criminal kind was the one left of the cross to rot as an example to others thinking of following thier pursuits.

 

[ranajja]

*sigh*

this is an...interesting thread. Y'know, being the Star Trek fan that I am, I've often wondered how one would explain following Jesus to, say, a Klingon (a blood-debt, perhaps?); or a Cardassian, etc. The odd thinks one can think at this time of the day, hmm?

 

[Bobtoad777]

Actually I think on a epsidoe of Start Trek The next Generation worf/warf{sp?} exposed a clone of basiaclly the kligon version of the human jesus it was rather interesting

 

[ranajja]

I saw that one. Yes, it was...interesting, on several points, such as the necessity (if I am remembering correctly) of the Klingon religious leaders to have their Messiah created in a test tube. An interesting comment on religious leaders trying to keep God in a box.

 

[Bobtoad777]

I saw that one. Yes, it was...interesting, on several points, such as the necessity (if I am remembering correctly) of the Klingon religious leaders to have their Messiah created in a test tube. An interesting comment on religious leaders trying to keep God in a box.

i found it interesting as it came out at the imte of study on the shroud of turin and dna cloning from the blood stains.

the posibility of the reliegious messiah being cloned was a very thought provoking thought. the question is though most messiah are of hman form they also were poart god, how would taking that aspect out of the equation relate to the clone that its just the human aspect.

thats what happend on the show the kligon messiah was missing its godness and therefore was faulty and broke down from what they wanted to make with the clone

on an intereting semi related not did you see the episode of outerlimits where that religious guy succedded in impregnateing a woman with shroud of turin dna and tried traingin the baby in the womb?

 

[ranajja]

Nope, I guess I missed that one.

Back to your original question--

A friend (who was in the JCS production I saw recently) put it this way:

Jesus did exist.
He was arrested on false charges.
He was a political prisoner.
He was tortured in prison.
He was brutally executed for his beliefs.

No Greenpeace, no Amnesty International back then…

 

[whatsinaname]

.

[Edited by whatsinaname on 12-21-2000 at 01:17 AM]

 

[whatsinaname]

Speaking of cloning.... http://www.clonejesus.com Yup, it's real.

I guess its all part of the, "if you can't go to Him, BRING Him to you" instant gratification mentality.

Can someone show me how these people missed the part about no man knowing the time or the place when He will return?

After I saw that site, I started wondering...what if these fools actually end up making the antichrist?

I guess they never heard of that saying, "Be careful what you ask for..."

 

[skitch]

check this out

Another did you know...


Did you know that Mary might not have been an actual virgin(meaning not having sex) The Hebrew meaning for the translated word 'virgin' really just means a young girl. nothing concerning sex....

 

[Andra_Jenny]

Spin Doctors

Yup, Jesus had the best after his death, cause there were a hundred guys out there just like him at the time.

 

[Bobtoad777]

Re: Spin Doctors

Yup, Jesus had the best after his death, cause there were a hundred guys out there just like him at the time.

would you care to site your sources, mine secular and chirstian point to the time that the historically acceptable jesus walked the earth it was a a time of spiritual depression, i.e the 400 silent years of jewish/hebrew relgion that lead to the appearance of the historical jesus. even pagan sources site that that no other messaih type figures were around at the time of the historic jesus.

 

[Bobtoad777]

Re: check this out

Another did you know...


Did you know that Mary might not have been an actual virgin(meaning not having sex) The Hebrew meaning for the translated word 'virgin' really just means a young girl. nothing concerning sex....

well actually the hebrew word can be translated both ways depending of who your linguiost language translater you go by. It does not make it riht or wrong just presents both both sides of the coin you are presenting.

 

[Bobtoad777]

Speaking of cloning.... http://www.clonejesus.com Yup, it's real.

I guess its all part of the, "if you can't go to Him, BRING Him to you" instant gratification mentality.

Can someone show me how these people missed the part about no man knowing the time or the place when He will return?

After I saw that site, I started wondering...what if these fools actually end up making the antichrist?

I guess they never heard of that saying, "Be careful what you ask for..."

I often thought of that myself when i first ran across the idea of cloning jesus

 

[Andra_Jenny]

In a hurry, but you mean, like John, the Babtist, guys like that. Hell, there still out there, the desert is full of them! We got 'em here to. They cut off there testicles and drink the cool-aid to get on the spaceship in the comet!

 

[Bobtoad777]

In a hurry, but you mean, like John, the Babtist, guys like that. Hell, there still out there, the desert is full of them! We got 'em here to. They cut off there testicles and drink the cool-aid to get on the spaceship in the comet!

ummmm, john the baptist was not a messiah figure, nor did anyone claim him to be nor did he claim to be.


today we have messaih figure wannabes but at the time of the historic jesus there were none. secular books record none and religions books record none.

 

[Bobtoad777]

even the jews did not view jesus as a messiah figure, most tried to discredit that possiblity, ie. Sadducees and pharasees.