Jesus Death question for all

[Bobtoad777]

If religion is a farce why did Jesus have to die? What was he doing that warrented such a death? he wasn't raising an army. he wasn't teaching decent to authority. He never did anything except to claim to be god. he didnt force anyone to follow him.

 

[Cheyenne]

If religion is a farce why did Jesus have to die?

Wrong holiday. Christmas is his birthday. Easter is his resurrection.

Happy Birthday, Jesus!

 

[Bobtoad777]

I know that just the season got me thinking most even pagan and secular scholars will agree that a man named jesus was born and lived at that time just kind of curious what thoughts are and couldnt wait for easter.

 

[Unclebill]

If religion is a farce why did Jesus have to die? What was he doing that warrented such a death? he wasn't raising an army. he wasn't teaching decent to authority. He never did anything except to claim to be god. he didnt force anyone to follow him.

You're ignoring one very pertinent point. He preached that God was above Caesar and the authority of the Roman Empire under whose rule he lived.

He wasn't crucified for religious reasons, but for political ones equivalent to treason.

 

[skitch]

did you know...

that Christian holidays were put on the days they're on because of many different cult's celebrations? it's true. if you don't believe me, i'll post my proof...unless you already know...would be no point then

(forgive my grammar tonight)

 

[naudiz]

Yup.

Knew that. A lot of the trappings for most of those holidays (Christmas trees, Easter bunny, etc.) come from the pagan holidays. And just this once I'm not going to go into a lengthy diatribe about it. Happy holidays, everyone.

 

[Ambrosious]

The Shroud Of Turin

Has been tested and found in the DNA a disease that makes people meglamaniacs.
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Not true, but what if?

 

[Bobtoad777]

Re: did you know...

that Christian holidays were put on the days they're on because of many different cult's celebrations? it's true. if you don't believe me, i'll post my proof...unless you already know...would be no point then

(forgive my grammar tonight)

Yes I do know that. I am Christian I am well aware of its jaded past. I hang my head at things such as the crusades. I know about how most of the christian holidays are are on pagan ones and how that a lot of pagan imagery was converted over to christian usage.

One demoniation today that you can really see a good example of this in work is to watch Roman catholic Missionaries go into a religiously untouched area of the world.

As for Christmas it should be mid September not late November.

 

[Bobtoad777]

If religion is a farce why did Jesus have to die? What was he doing that warrented such a death? he wasn't raising an army. he wasn't teaching decent to authority. He never did anything except to claim to be god. he didnt force anyone to follow him.

You're ignoring one very pertinent point. He preached that God was above Caesar and the authority of the Roman Empire under whose rule he lived.

He wasn't crucified for religious reasons, but for political ones equivalent to treason.

Alright UncleBill I will agree with that, being that he did teach himself and his father being higher than Ceaser. But he always taught to respect earthly authority in all things except if it happened to conflict with the scriptures. Plus He taught to give the governement waht was rightfully theres. "Render unto ceasasr what is ceasers". he never made any demands or requests of the people to over rule the government. So how was that a threat equvilent of death? If I was to do something of the same sort of thing, caliming to be god and got a bunch of followers the Canadian Prime Minister wouldn't Crucify me or have me put to death. at the most they would just watch what was happening to make sure I wasn't jonesing my followers or my self. at the worst they would jail me and give me a slap on the wrist sentence.

 

[Expertise]

In historical context BT the Romans executed people for a lot less.

As far as a modern day equivalent, minus the miracles and the messiah just look at Falun Gong in China. It is far less of a spiritual movement than what Jesus preached and threatans secular authority even less but is brutaly dealt with.

 

[Bobtoad777]

Expertise I agree with you but the method of Jesus death even by secular defination of what the man Jesus went through was the most vicious beatings and death that could possible be adminstired, it just seems so wasted.

 

[Expertise]

Actually BT I think ROman Law at the time codified(sp) the punishment as well *Wheres Slut Boy when you need him*. It was the proscribed punishment for many crimes. Certainly for crimes far less serious than treason.

This is a freakin happy thread 5 days short of christmas

 

[Bobtoad777]

christmas smishmas If i got to spend it alone and out of touch with the world with a slight smackeraling of depresseion , I aint gonna do it alone. hehehehe

From what I have studied of Roman law Crucifixion was reserved for the most hienous of criminal activity.

On a side note even non religious Romans acknowledged that Jesus did not deserve this punishment. Pontious Pilote, even in secular writings is found that he wased his hands of the Jesus incident cause he could find no wrong in Jesus worth death.

 

[Expertise]

I think you are slightly mistaken BT.

There were several "styles" of crucifixion. The Jesus version with nails and the other version with ropes as "the fasteners" supposedly a more "humane" version.

Crucifixions (if not the JC version)were quite common as I recall.

 

[CreamyLady]

Sigh. Bobtoad, Jesus never claimed to be God. Please read more carefully.

Also, to understand Jesus' death, you really have to understand the idea of sacrifice and redemption. I don't have the kind of time it would apparently take to explain this to you. I suggest you go back and read the Old Testament very carefully.

 

[Bobtoad777]

Sigh. Bobtoad, Jesus never claimed to be God. Please read more carefully.

Also, to understand Jesus' death, you really have to understand the idea of sacrifice and redemption. I don't have the kind of time it would apparently take to explain this to you. I suggest you go back and read the Old Testament very carefully.

I know Jesus never claimed to be God, he claimed equality with god, and the way to God "way , truth, life" but in the romans eyes he was claiming to be God that was what I meant.

I understand for my christianity view point very well why Jesus had to die and all that goes with it.

My study with this thread is the why form the secular angle of why jesus had to die. Sorry for confusing you, I should of made that clear in the beginning, I tooked it for granted that by now people would know that I was a christian and that I know the religious view of things.

 

[Bobtoad777]

I think you are slightly mistaken BT.

There were several "styles" of crucifixion. The Jesus version with nails and the other version with ropes as "the fasteners" supposedly a more "humane" version.

Crucifixions (if not the JC version)were quite common as I recall.

Your probably right.

 

[Isabella Thorne]

Theological Debate

Scholars have long debated the exact ethnicity and nationality of Jesus. Recently, at a theological meeting in Rome, scholars had a heated debate on this subject.

One by one, they offered their evidence.

PROOF JESUS WAS MEXICAN:
1. His first name was Jesus
2. He was bilingual
3. He was always being harassed by the authorities.

But then there were equally good arguments that...

JESUS WAS BLACK:
1. He called everybody "brother"
2. He liked Gospel
3. He couldn't get a fair trial

But then there were equally good arguments that...

JESUS WAS JEWISH
1. He went into His Father's business
2. He lived at home until he was 33
3. He was sure his Mother was a virgin, and his Mother was sure he was God.

But then there were equally good arguments that...

JESUS WAS ITALIAN
1. He talked with his hands
2. He had wine with every meal
3. He used olive oil

But then there were equally good arguments that...

JESUS WAS A CALIFORNIAN
1. He never cut his hair
2. He walked around barefoot
3. He started a new religion

But then there were equally good arguments that...

JESUS WAS IRISH
1. He never got married
2. He was always telling stories
3. He loved green pastures

But perhaps the most compelling evidence.....

PROOF JESUS WAS A WOMAN
1. He had to feed a crowd at a moment's notice when there was no food.
2. He kept trying to get the message across to a bunch of men who JUST DIDN'T GET IT.
3. Even when He was dead, He had to get up because there was more work for him to do.

 

[Bobtoad777]

Thank you I had that at one time but lost it somewheres

 

[Ambrosious]

LMAO @ Isabella

 

[CreamyLady]

Miss Thorne, I hadn't heard that Jesus was a Californian, but it explains so much.

Bobtoad, the secular reason for Jesus to die, as I recall, was fear. The Pharisees feared his growing popularity and stated intolerance for the established order (the moneylenders in the temple, for example). There was allegedly no provision for a death sentence for his perceived sedition in their tradition.

Pilate truly found no crime against Rome in Jesus, sending him to Herod. Herod sent him back. Since, secularly, things were getting ugly, Pilate sentenced him to death -- what was one more execution, after all?

Judaea was something of a hardship post for Romans, and peacekeeping was a major headache. If the crucifixion of one perceived troublemaker would shut everyone up, well then, you do the math.

 

[Purple Haze]

Exactly CreamyLady, Jesus was a cage rattler in his day, a misunderstood one at that. What continues to puzzle me is that after all the teaching, speaking, healing and other things done in his lifetime, why his death seems to be at the forefront of importance to most christians. I wonder if he was killed with a knife, would some people have little knives on their necklaces?

 

[CreamyLady]

I'm sure it had something to do with the fact that a crucifixion was a nasty, slow way to die. They didn't use nails. They broke the arms and legs of the victim and tied him to a cross, and left him.

I believe the mythos of the cross is that it was so common. Only the very basest of criminals were sentenced to crucifixion; think of what it would mean to everyone if the Son of God were to die that way. Christianity was very much a slave's religion in the early days. Life sucked for the average slave, and the hope of heaven after death -- a heaven ruled by the Son of a God, who had lived as a commoner and died as a slave -- was a reason to go on living, and striving.

I won't go into the ways this simple belief was perverted by the Powers That Be to subjugate large numbers of people and keep them happy. Marx was correct on that point.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

1) How do you know what went on? You weren't there.

2) Regardless of what really happened - he didn't have to die.

3) His death was/is no different that millions of deaths since the dawn of man. Needless? Perhaps.

4) In the end he was just a man. A good man, maybe near perfect - but a man, nothing more nothing less.

All mankind has fallen short of his great example.

 

[fgarvb1]

just wanted to stick my two cents worth in here..grab your matches....

everything that jesus did from his birth untill his death and how he was giong to do it; was told to the people from the time God promised adam he would sent a redeemer until
at least john dunked him into the river.

i can't call them jews in the above because the house of israel broke apart. some of them are not jews. so i just said people.

i have shit for brains but the infro is in their somewhere.

anyway jesus knew what was going to happen to him.