Jacking-Off Log

[tortoise]

i think brain chem with puritanical mores is a great mix! that's why i've preferred to date guys who grew up catholic. there's something highly erotic about seeing a man with so much lust that it overcomes that much guilt and shame. nasty, dirty men-whores, those altar boys. love 'em.

sex is so much better with a healthy dose of sin.

Which is why I said "can be." I was speaking of the sociopathic extreme, wherein shame turns pathological. If thinking about a truly unspeakable act becomes every bit as shameful as doing it, the boundary between thought and action becomes very… permeable. Further trouble can obviously arise if one considers something like homosexuality to be every bit as unspeakable as pedophila (to use two random examples).

Shame in small to moderate doses can be fun as an arbitrary obstacle to overcome, but too much can be toxic. Shame has an LD50.

 

[bridgeburner]

Got the last good one for a couple of days last night --- company coming for the weekend and while I'll be able to jack I'll have to do it quietly like I used to which is less satisfying.

I learned to jack in near total silence --- on my belly with my face pressed into the pillow. I was 20 before I learned to jack on my back. In the last year or so I've gotten to the point where I want to hear my own voice --- or not so much hear it as feel it. Being able to verbally express my pleasure when I'm all alone has proven to be quite the rush. It's embarassing to think about that stuttery "uh-uh-uhnnnn", much less the filthy, silly stuff I'm saying, but when I'm doing it I just don't care. I'm reveling in the shame of the fact that I came so hard I HAD to moan.

So, I'll be jacking quietly for the next couple of days.

There is the possibility of a visit to a toy store this weekend. This is the friend I actually bought my first vibrator with and since the death of the Love Gun I've been in mourning and doing without. It's past time for me to get a replacement.

If shopping happens I will report.

-B

 

[Olivia_Yearns]

i think i get off on humility. not humiliation, per se, but the humility found through shame and humiliation. slight distinction but very important in some small part of my consciousness. not sure about this yet---still exploring it. this woman were she still in my life would probably understand this part of me better than i do.

I had to go, and missed so much in this conversation - so many things I want to respond to.

Last night, talking with my friend, I said almost the same thing about humility. All my usual ways of being stripped away, I am merely, dumbly in my body, undefended.

I tried anal sex in the past, and found it only painful and completely unsexual. Last night, my friend talked about in a way that I understood for the first time how it could be pleasurable. Having to so totally relax and give up all resistance - that's what's so hot about it. The total physical release of any ego, any control.

The ultimate sexual word for me is 'abject'. laid low, where I am only body and emotion. Where I recoil from some other people's fantasies is when there is also hatred there. I don't want hatred. I want to be enjoyed as a sexual body/being.

 

[rosco rathbone]

If thinking about a truly unspeakable act becomes every bit as shameful as doing it, the boundary between thought and action becomes very… permeable.

Never thought of it this way. I don't know if I agree, but it's very interesting.

 

[Recidiva]

Another thing for me is that I have already had enough humiliation in a purely physical sense.

There's absolutely nothing any human being could do to me that is more painful or humiliating (having my sense and dignity taken away) than my migraines have already inflicted. There's no safe word there, there's no discovery remaining. I've spent so much time in this posture that my rock-solid knowledge of my own frailty isn't a mystery.

I am completely at the whim of my brain and body. I am not in charge.

 

[Olivia_Yearns]

my first genital-related sexual experiences were with other girls---lots of rubbing of ourselves and each other. i could never get off in front of them, though. it wasn't until i was in my mid 30s that i could masturbate in front of a partner, and it still can be a pretty vulnerable space for me.

i think it's great that you suggested that. brought back memories of sleepovers for me.

There is something amazing about the closeness between women that I've been missing for many years. It's amazing to have that again. The relationship erotically sensual, and I like that part of our closeness, but we're both too femme to take it into an overtly sexual relationship.

I have a masculine in me that would like to be with a woman, but that side of me is crude, cold and cruel. If I fantasize about a woman, I imagine a scenario where I have all the power and control.

 

[tortoise]

Never thought of it this way. I don't know if I agree, but it's very interesting.

Again, I should have stipulated "can be" very permeable. I'm taking everything to the extreme here, and I don't want to imply that it will happen in every case, nor to imply that toxic shame is the only route to pathological behavior.

 

[bridgeburner]

The ultimate sexual word for me is 'abject'. laid low, where I am only body and emotion. Where I recoil from some other people's fantasies is when there is also hatred there. I don't want hatred. I want to be enjoyed as a sexual body/being.

I think this is the root of my preference regarding humiliation play. I am aroused by teasing and humiliation so long as I am sure that the person inflicting it ultimately revels in my responses. I don't want to engage with someone who truly has a disgust of me --- that person doesn't deserve me.

 

[Recidiva]

I have a masculine in me that would like to be with a woman, but that side of me is crude, cold and cruel. If I fantasize about a woman, I imagine a scenario where I have all the power and control.

Oddly enough in my fantasies I'm almost always seeing things from the point of view of being the guy. It's always been this way. Most of the voices in my head come from seemingly "masculine" sources.

I don't want to BE a guy, but it seems that advice and lust comes from those sources.

The feminine stuff is quieter and is much more about being than doing.

 

[Hester]

There's that old book "Women Who Run With The Wolves"

"It was a time when parents who abused their children were simply called "strict", when the spiritual lacerations of profoundly exploited women were refered to as "nervous breakdowns", when girls and women who were tightly girdled, tightly reined, and tightly muzzled were called "nice", and those other females who managed to slip the collar for a moment or two of life were branded "bad. "

My sister and I read this book a while back and she said of me that I'd been "slipping the collar for a lifetime"

I never cared what other people thought. If I thought the collar was worth wearing, I would, otherwise, nothing would get it on me. I did as I pleased.

So she felt that she was collared unfairly, and I felt I wasn't collared at all. Because each restriction placed I'd accept as my choice or toss as crap.

People who feel collared, may want to take them off. Either by another's choice or yours, was it put there, but "slipping the collar" is the metaphor I use.

So you can be humiliated by a group by being collared against your will, or you could have been duped into putting the thing on and then want it off, or you could have slipped it and it's not an issue.

I've pretty much chosen and accepted excommunication and exile over not being myself and acceptance.

Also, the image of the internal wolf for many seems scary, but I consider it scariest when it's left in a small and dark, cramped place and only let out occasionally. Then it gets starved and twisted. My inner wolf is free range.

i think i understand what you are saying (or maybe not), but i am not sure it's applicable to everyone. if one thing has permeated my life from the beginning it is the fact that i need freedom or i will die attaining it. i grew up in a permissive environment. at one time, it was given to me. when it wasn't given, i found a way to take it. that's "collaring" to me (or the avoidance thereof).

if it's shame that collars you, then maybe we are on the same page. but i don't feel shame collars me. it somehow opens up a door to freedom to me.

same door different key, perhaps?

 

[Hester]

Which is why I said "can be." I was speaking of the sociopathic extreme, wherein shame turns pathological. If thinking about a truly unspeakable act becomes every bit as shameful as doing it, the boundary between thought and action becomes very… permeable. Further trouble can obviously arise if one considers something like homosexuality to be every bit as unspeakable as pedophila (to use two random examples).

Shame in small to moderate doses can be fun as an arbitrary obstacle to overcome, but too much can be toxic. Shame has an LD50.

okay, i get it.

yes, i have a friend who is a well-known person in the justice field who has written much on how she believes shame is the root cause of all violence. i can totally see that.

perhaps it's more a matter of how we choose to exorcise our demons rather than what they are.

 

[Recidiva]

i think i understand what you are saying (or maybe not), but i am not sure it's applicable to everyone. if one thing has permeated my life from the beginning it is the fact that i need freedom or i will die attaining it. i grew up in a permissive environment. at one time, it was given to me. when it wasn't given, i found a way to take it. that's "collaring" to me (or the avoidance thereof).

if it's shame that collars you, then maybe we are on the same page. but i don't feel shame collars me. it somehow opens up a door to freedom to me.

same door different key, perhaps?

Yes, it looks like you chase shame and I banish it. Probably the same mechanic, just seen from different sides of the equation. I don't enjoy encountering it, but I end up doing it because I'm always hitting the edges of where it lives because I try to take up all the space I can and get more.

Manifest destiny, either way.

 

[Hester]

I had to go, and missed so much in this conversation - so many things I want to respond to.

Last night, talking with my friend, I said almost the same thing about humility. All my usual ways of being stripped away, I am merely, dumbly in my body, undefended.

I tried anal sex in the past, and found it only painful and completely unsexual. Last night, my friend talked about in a way that I understood for the first time how it could be pleasurable. Having to so totally relax and give up all resistance - that's what's so hot about it. The total physical release of any ego, any control.

The ultimate sexual word for me is 'abject'. laid low, where I am only body and emotion. Where I recoil from some other people's fantasies is when there is also hatred there. I don't want hatred. I want to be enjoyed as a sexual body/being.

sex is a place for me to embrace ALL of my emotions in a "safe," limited, well-defined context. love, yes, but also hatred of myself and my partner (or others by projection). it's a venting process for me, and it's also a place where i can feel for someone (again, directly or by proxy) things i do not normally allow to leak out.

anal sex is possibly the most sexual act for me.

 

[Recidiva]

sex is a place for me to embrace ALL of my emotions in a "safe," limited, well-defined context. love, yes, but also hatred of myself and my partner (or others by projection). it's a venting process for me, and it's also a place where i can feel for someone (again, directly or by proxy) things i do not normally allow to leak out.

anal sex is possibly the most sexual act for me.

I'm not sure I hate. Rage, definitely, but not hate.

I don't like to feel polarized, I much more enjoy being a part of something, and I consider hate to be staring something in the face you feel completely disconnected from.

 

[Marquis]

Up-cycle. Glad to have you back.

Not until I change my av, but I have been taking my meds.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I don't like that av, it makes me feel sad.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Oddly enough in my fantasies I'm almost always seeing things from the point of view of being the guy. It's always been this way. Most of the voices in my head come from seemingly "masculine" sources.

I don't want to BE a guy, but it seems that advice and lust comes from those sources.

The feminine stuff is quieter and is much more about being than doing.

I keep finding this over and over in pervs. The desire to be multiple people/viewpoints/whatever at once.

 

[Recidiva]

I keep finding this over and over in pervs. The desire to be multiple people/viewpoints/whatever at once.

Maybe I'm just too comfortable there.

I'm a born actress, a born liar, and I have no problems thinking like a guy or imagining what it would be like to have something done to me. I'm usually so good with my imagination that I never need to go there in real life 'cause that's fraught with actual consequences, missed lines and stamina issues.

 

[Hester]

There is something amazing about the closeness between women that I've been missing for many years. It's amazing to have that again. The relationship erotically sensual, and I like that part of our closeness, but we're both too femme to take it into an overtly sexual relationship.

I have a masculine in me that would like to be with a woman, but that side of me is crude, cold and cruel. If I fantasize about a woman, I imagine a scenario where I have all the power and control.

for me it was simply opportunity. if that door had been open by boys i would have taken it more quickly and more fully. women, unfortunately, don't do it for me.

i'm the same way about women---i generally don't fantasize about them, but i know if i engage one i have a strong need to be the top.

 

[Marquis]

I don't like that av, it makes me feel sad.

Me too.

I think if the sadness went away, I might miss it.

 

[Olivia_Yearns]

Oddly enough in my fantasies I'm almost always seeing things from the point of view of being the guy. It's always been this way. Most of the voices in my head come from seemingly "masculine" sources.

I don't want to BE a guy, but it seems that advice and lust comes from those sources.

The feminine stuff is quieter and is much more about being than doing.

When you imagine being a guy and fucking a woman, who is the woman?

I don't think it's odd that we imagine the other experience. Almost all my real life experience is with men, and most of the men I've been attracted to have been masculine and quite dominant, but not kinky or perverse like I am. I never masturbate thinking about the kind of sex I have IRL. I think about what I don't get irl.

 

[Hester]

Yes, it looks like you chase shame and I banish it. Probably the same mechanic, just seen from different sides of the equation. I don't enjoy encountering it, but I end up doing it because I'm always hitting the edges of where it lives because I try to take up all the space I can and get more.

Manifest destiny, either way.

i think you are correct. i chase my negatives, my demons. shame, fear, attachment, hatred. i am aggressive and proactive in defense of my psyche.

 

[Hester]

Me too.

I think if the sadness went away, I might miss it.

that's some deep shit, M.

anything you can replace it with?

 

[Recidiva]

When you imagine being a guy and fucking a woman, who is the woman?

I don't think it's odd that we imagine the other experience. Almost all my real life experience is with men, and most of the men I've been attracted to have been masculine and quite dominant, but not kinky or perverse like I am. I never masturbate thinking about the kind of sex I have IRL. I think about what I don't get irl.

It never matters who the woman is or who the guy is. Since I don't "imagine" things like other people do (in pictures) I imagine the sensation (emotional and physical) of a situation.

Say I'm thinking of something from "The Story of O"

I don't imagine an entire room or a whole scene ever. Maybe just the idea of her hands being tied to a wall while she's sleeping. An ottoman with a woman over it quiescent. What would *I* do if I had a cock? I don't see pictures, I think of concepts. I wouldn't think of being that woman, usually, because then it's not my choice what happens to me.

So it's very nonspecific and has to do more with bringing about a certain potential of action, usually, than a played out scene. And images can last for fractions of a second. Maybe somebody's AV here or something from a movie or a book, reminders of a certain emotion that just push each other along in a certain direction. Usually masturbatory fantasies have a lot more to do with lust and detachment, because that's the fastest way to lust.

Romance is entirely different and that's the way I live my life, not the way I get an orgasm on my own.

 

[Hester]

I keep finding this over and over in pervs. The desire to be multiple people/viewpoints/whatever at once.

shit, i'm not like that at all. does this mean i'm kicked out of the club?