I've lost my extended family - due to political concerns -

[Guest]

- and I really don't know what to do about it.

We just came back from the big visit to the family: my parents, my sister and her hubby. Through trial and error at these family visits we've learned what topics to avoid. The amount of material we can discuss has become less and less.

Though once of similar thought and mind, we no longer share the same political, spiritual, financial or apparently racial views.

The latest? Their continued assertion that all the problems of the U.S. would be solved by dealing with immigration issues although in fact, (their words) it was OK for Mexicans to be around doing menial labor because you wouldn't see whites doing that kind of stuff anyway.

My mouth is still half-open in shock. Damn it.

My parents brought up three children - all college-educated, all with strong opinions. My parents are well-traveled and well-read. They have always been politically active, have never voted a solid party line and I can even remember presidential elections where one of them would vote Republican and one Democrat. They laughed about cancelling out each other's votes.

My sister was a carbon copy of me - until she got married. Then she did a complete U turn and her viewpoint now mirrors her husband's.

After my amazement at that statement (and I didn't bring up the current events containing those statements) they continued to insist there were certain jobs whites wouldn't do.

Finally, I said, "I can't believe you're saying that. It sounds so racist."

Ooops.

Silly me. Having an opinion.

Then my brother-in-law asked if I personally would take a job for minimum wage. Interesting. I said I wouldn't, because I had too much college time invested and was still trying to pay off student loans. I'd earned the right to make more money by paying through the nose for graduate courses.

At any rate, the discussion grew to an argument, which grew to anger (not on my part) which grew to louder discussion, which finally I tossed up my hands, said it didn't matter, we weren't going to come to any agreement, let's drop it.

There was a great deal of huffing and fuming and amazement at my obvious lack of sensibilities. And apparently they didn't like being called racist.

Our exit was uncomfortable and stilted and I was in tears during much of the 90 minute drive home. There wasn't a message on my machine at home either. Guess I was hoping for a make-up sort of gesture.

We were visiting them to celebrate our son's birthday, by the way. Luckily the children were not in the room at that moment.

Now? I don't wish to return to my own parent's house. In truth, I don't believe they've ever quite understood what I am about. I was the shy and oh-so-serious middle child. But I thought I used to understand them.

Damn.

How do you deal with these issues? Anyone else in a similar situation right now? I need advice, help, wise words of wisdom, or perhaps someone to commiserate as I drown my sorrows in about 17 rum and cokes.

See ya at the bar.

 

[rgraham666]

No words of wisdom, sarahh.

Just *HUGS*. As many and as hard as you need.

 

[Dar~]

My grandfather was raised in the thirties up in the hills of West Virginia. He is EXTREMELY racist. I dated a Philipino man when I was younger and my grandfather didn't speak to me for 9 months. He actually threatened to "kick me out of the family." When Carlos and I eventually broke up (nothing to do with Grandfather) he was himself again and acting like the great man he always was. It hurt me deeply that he was willing to write me off completely b/c of a man I felt and still do feel was a wonderful person.

Understand, my father wasn't. He was a complete bastard. My grandfather was my all.

I understand your pain. The only thing I could do was just love the person and not the beliefs. Whenever something comes up race related in my relationship with my Grandpa, I leave the room or inform him that since we don't agree it's not worth talking about together. He handles it well and I can still adore him.

I am so sorry you had to go through that. it is a really dissillusioning thing to go through. Maybe if you get your sister alone and calmly explain what you feel and you can find out if she truly feels the way she presented herself, or if she was just placating her husband. Whatever happens, I hope you can make a strong well thought out decision. I have definitely been there.

One other thing I want to mention, I am sincerely glad you don't want to expose your children to hatred like what was represented. Kudos to you.

 

[The_Fool]

The thing about family is that you have to love 'em, but you don't have to like 'em.

I remember losing some of the respect I had for my grandparents as a young teenager when I found out just how much they were bigoted southerners. I remember as an young adult, how sad it was to figure out how shallow my parents were. None of these individuals were stupid, and some of them were highly educated. I guess it's just part of growing up. I'm still trying to grow up in some ways. The thing is, we are all human and each of us have fatal flaws.

So what do we do? We go on and we set our limits. Just don't lose track of that love.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Ah, sweet. I'm sorry you had to go through that.




There's nothing wrong with speaking up. If no one tells them that their thinking is flawed, they'll continue being certain that they're right.

 

[logophile]

I'm so sorry Sarahhh... What a shitty night for you and your husband.
Know that I'm thinking of you (and how right you were) and giving you a big hug in my mind.

 

[CharleyH]

- and I really don't know what to do about it.

How do you deal with these issues? Anyone else in a similar situation right now? I need advice, help, wise words of wisdom, or perhaps someone to commiserate as I drown my sorrows in about 17 rum and cokes.

See ya at the bar.

Ok. Aside from saying "You're a bunch of fucking assholes." You see them rarely, so why bother? But, the 5 questions of deflection are:

1) did you do any new renovations?
2) are you going anywhere this year?
3) what are the kids involved in?
4) I saw this movie .... What did you see?
5) Anyone been out lately?

If all of this does not work then "Who has had sex, lately?" should at least bring a stop to the convo you do not like, and hopefully laughter and ensuing ease.

If not follow it with "I meant the cats/dogs," with a straight face.

and then if that does not work? Smile, say I love you and leave because they are lame?

 

[Guest]

Thanks, everyone.

I just got out of a long bath. I still feel crappy, but at least I'm warm and wet.

And half-way drunk.

 

[mismused]

delete

 

[joeys-game]

Sarah be true to yourself and your beliefs. I f you can accomplish that, you can't lose.
You would be surprised at how many people can't do this because they are stating the opinions that others have fed to them in order to feed thier own damaged sense of self.
If that make sense..i think it does.

 

[Belegon]

I remember my first year back at the university I eventually graduated from...I had family in the town, which is how I came to be there...

I had a cousin there who thought it was perfectly alright to call african-americans "niggers" because, after all, "they call themselves that". (we're white)

I beat my head agaist that brick wall for hours before I gave it up. He never did get it through his head. The hell of it is that he was the best person in his family for the most part and one of my favorite relations in most ways. Very honest, hard-working, decent guy. But a little dense in this area. He honestly did not see that he was prejudiced.

I couldn't even dislike him for it. It was just extremely fucking sad....

 

[~hellbaby~]

- and I really don't know what to do about it.

We just came back from the big visit to the family: my parents, my sister and her hubby. Through trial and error at these family visits we've learned what topics to avoid. The amount of material we can discuss has become less and less.

Though once of similar thought and mind, we no longer share the same political, spiritual, financial or apparently racial views.

The latest? Their continued assertion that all the problems of the U.S. would be solved by dealing with immigration issues although in fact, (their words) it was OK for Mexicans to be around doing menial labor because you wouldn't see whites doing that kind of stuff anyway.

My mouth is still half-open in shock. Damn it.

My parents brought up three children - all college-educated, all with strong opinions. My parents are well-traveled and well-read. They have always been politically active, have never voted a solid party line and I can even remember presidential elections where one of them would vote Republican and one Democrat. They laughed about cancelling out each other's votes.

My sister was a carbon copy of me - until she got married. Then she did a complete U turn and her viewpoint now mirrors her husband's.

After my amazement at that statement (and I didn't bring up the current events containing those statements) they continued to insist there were certain jobs whites wouldn't do.

Finally, I said, "I can't believe you're saying that. It sounds so racist."

Ooops.

Silly me. Having an opinion.

Then my brother-in-law asked if I personally would take a job for minimum wage. Interesting. I said I wouldn't, because I had too much college time invested and was still trying to pay off student loans. I'd earned the right to make more money by paying through the nose for graduate courses.

At any rate, the discussion grew to an argument, which grew to anger (not on my part) which grew to louder discussion, which finally I tossed up my hands, said it didn't matter, we weren't going to come to any agreement, let's drop it.

There was a great deal of huffing and fuming and amazement at my obvious lack of sensibilities. And apparently they didn't like being called racist.

Our exit was uncomfortable and stilted and I was in tears during much of the 90 minute drive home. There wasn't a message on my machine at home either. Guess I was hoping for a make-up sort of gesture.

We were visiting them to celebrate our son's birthday, by the way. Luckily the children were not in the room at that moment.

Now? I don't wish to return to my own parent's house. In truth, I don't believe they've ever quite understood what I am about. I was the shy and oh-so-serious middle child. But I thought I used to understand them.

Damn.

How do you deal with these issues? Anyone else in a similar situation right now? I need advice, help, wise words of wisdom, or perhaps someone to commiserate as I drown my sorrows in about 17 rum and cokes.

See ya at the bar.

You just agree to disagree and grab a deck of cards or watch a movie because the weather conversation fizzles out quickly.
Just a few thoughts on the issue though; Illegals are violating our laws by being in our country, costing taxpayers and hospitals millions of dollars a year for unpaid services, tying up our courts and not paying taxes on their wages. It is not racist to not want people here who have no business being here, it is protecting your homeland. Illegal immigration is a very big problem and is a large contributer to what's wrong here today. Employers would be forced to pay a fair wage and yes, there are plenty of American citizens who would take those jobs. Migrant workers have always had a place here, they're vital to the economy and there are plenty citizen migrant workers in the country.
{ED.thinking I may have read the racist comment wrong}}

 

[shereads]

I have some extra family members that you can use.

 

[Guest]

I have some extra family members that you can use.

BWAH!

Thanks, Sher, I really needed that this morning.

You know I don't feel any better about the entire situation? And that isn't the rum hangover speaking.

Hellbaby - I'm not thrilled with illegals in this country. That is a major problem and needs to be dealt with, especially in matters of medical and educational assistance. It is bankrupting certain areas of our country. And as so many dishonest companies take advantage of the illegals, obviously legalized citizens would be the best thing.

But the point of "discussion" with my family wasn't really about that. It centered on their comment about how it was ok for all those "Mexicans" to come in to the country because whites wouldn't do the kind of work they'd do anyway.

And I took offense to the comment, not just for the words, but for what that line of thought represented in their overall view of people.

My sister? Well, we haven't been on quality speaking terms since my brother's illness and death two years ago. I suppose I've come to expect this kind of bullshit from her.

But I'm damn shocked that my well-educated parents have become bigots.

 

[gauchecritic]

But I'm damn shocked that my well-educated parents have become bigots.

The thing is though Sarahh they probably haven't become bigots. I never knew my dad was racist until my brother told me a few years ago. Shit I didn't even know he was Conservative except in party politics. But he was still my dad.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

- and I really don't know what to do about it.

We just came back from the big visit to the family: my parents, my sister and her hubby. Through trial and error at these family visits we've learned what topics to avoid. The amount of material we can discuss has become less and less.

Though once of similar thought and mind, we no longer share the same political, spiritual, financial or apparently racial views.

The latest? Their continued assertion that all the problems of the U.S. would be solved by dealing with immigration issues although in fact, (their words) it was OK for Mexicans to be around doing menial labor because you wouldn't see whites doing that kind of stuff anyway.

My mouth is still half-open in shock. Damn it.

My parents brought up three children - all college-educated, all with strong opinions. My parents are well-traveled and well-read. They have always been politically active, have never voted a solid party line and I can even remember presidential elections where one of them would vote Republican and one Democrat. They laughed about cancelling out each other's votes.

My sister was a carbon copy of me - until she got married. Then she did a complete U turn and her viewpoint now mirrors her husband's.

After my amazement at that statement (and I didn't bring up the current events containing those statements) they continued to insist there were certain jobs whites wouldn't do.

Finally, I said, "I can't believe you're saying that. It sounds so racist."

Ooops.

Silly me. Having an opinion.

Then my brother-in-law asked if I personally would take a job for minimum wage. Interesting. I said I wouldn't, because I had too much college time invested and was still trying to pay off student loans. I'd earned the right to make more money by paying through the nose for graduate courses.

At any rate, the discussion grew to an argument, which grew to anger (not on my part) which grew to louder discussion, which finally I tossed up my hands, said it didn't matter, we weren't going to come to any agreement, let's drop it.

There was a great deal of huffing and fuming and amazement at my obvious lack of sensibilities. And apparently they didn't like being called racist.

Our exit was uncomfortable and stilted and I was in tears during much of the 90 minute drive home. There wasn't a message on my machine at home either. Guess I was hoping for a make-up sort of gesture.

We were visiting them to celebrate our son's birthday, by the way. Luckily the children were not in the room at that moment.

Now? I don't wish to return to my own parent's house. In truth, I don't believe they've ever quite understood what I am about. I was the shy and oh-so-serious middle child. But I thought I used to understand them.

Damn.

How do you deal with these issues? Anyone else in a similar situation right now? I need advice, help, wise words of wisdom, or perhaps someone to commiserate as I drown my sorrows in about 17 rum and cokes.

See ya at the bar.

Family is Family Sarah. They always will be. But also remember, when you Marry, you, to some degree, divorce yourself from your old family and devote yourself to your new one. Sometimes, that requires changes in attitude and action that make living with your new family easier.

You're sister's change in viewpoint, is most likely one of those compromises she has made to keep peace in her home. If your brother in law is as dyed in the wool as he sounds, you can well imagine it would be one continuous war if you had marrie dhim and kept your current value set rather than adapting, wouldn't it?

I'm not conservative enough for my parents or brothers. We never let politics cause problems. We simply leave off any discussion that begins to get touchy. It helps that no one really wishes to beard the lion in her den, so to speak, as I stay pretty well informed

The best advice I can give is to do what I do, leave your politics in the glove box. There is to much going on and to much to be said between family to let differing world view stifle everything. My dad is wrong sometimes. Dead Wrong. But, and here is the rub, many of the things he is wrong about he is not going to change. If I try to show him he's wrong, there will be a fight. I know this. I make the choice not to start that fight, not because I don't believe in my point of view, but because I love him and see no need to antagonize him over something that in the end, dosen't matter as much to me as peace with him.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

I feel for you, Sarahh, my boyfriend and I are in a similar situation with both our families. My grandparents are lifelong republicans raised by republicans whose bitterness goes back to FDR. They were raising me to be the same until thankfully I met Carson and his mom. My boyfriend's father was a democrat and a union member, but most of his family have found, along with Jesus, that they are republicans.

We have tried not bringing it up, but someone always seems to try and bait and antagonize us. I'm sorry, but when I'm sitting there and someone is going on and on about what a great job Bush is doing, I'm not going to smile and agree.

At Christmas, I got into a huge altercation with my uncle's brother in law, who may actually be Amicus, I'm not sure. After that, I endeavored to refuse to argue with anyone about politics during a holiday. They even ask me specific questions like "So, what do you think about this whole Karl Rove thing, pretty unfair, huh?"

Instead of answering and going off, I've actually had to say something like "Karl Rove? Hey, what about Al Roker? He's getting so skinny!" I know, I feel like a cowardly shit, but I keep the peace for the sake of my own blood pressure and so that the kids don't have to hear the adults screaming at each other over dinner.

My cousin's husband is the worst, he loves to provoke me. I've told him before "We don't discuss politics at this table." because I refuse to be put on the spot in my own home. I would never give up on them because of a difference of opinion. I don't feel like it's even an option.

But, I'm getting more strict about how I handle it. I'm making it known that I refuse to be provoked or singled out because of my politics. Just like I wouldn't allow anyone to be picked on for any other reason. I made a promise to keep everyone together and I intend to keep it no matter what, even if it means telling everyone to shut the fuck up and eat their cake.

 

[Guest]

The thing is though Sarahh they probably haven't become bigots. I never knew my dad was racist until my brother told me a few years ago. Shit I didn't even know he was Conservative except in party politics. But he was still my dad.

Yes. YES!

This is what worries me the most.

We went out for a nice brunch this morning (husband, children and me) and it was on the way home in the car that I turned to my hubby and said, "What if my family has always been that way? What if I was that way, too? And if so why have I changed, and when, and how?"

But then I remembered right after our daughter was born we noticed family members using offensive words to describe different people. Of course it bothered us. We had to become very militant about it, finally saying, "We will not visit your home if you do not stop saying things like that in front of our child."

They stopped. End of problem. That was ten years ago and I'd forgotten all about it.

Good Christ - I've been raised by bigots? I feel sick.

 

[cloudy]

Yes. YES!

This is what worries me the most.

We went out for a nice brunch this morning (husband, children and me) and it was on the way home in the car that I turned to my hubby and said, "What if my family has always been that way? What if I was that way, too? And if so why have I changed, and when, and how?"

But then I remembered right after our daughter was born we noticed family members using offensive words to describe different people. Of course it bothered us. We had to become very militant about it, finally saying, "We will not visit your home if you do not stop saying things like that in front of our child."

They stopped. End of problem. That was ten years ago and I'd forgotten all about it.

Good Christ - I've been raised by bigots? I feel sick.

It's the nature of the beast, I'm afraid.

My parents were firmly in the "black people are okay, but we don't socialize with them" club.

I never heard them say anything racist, other than that, but fortunately, I and a couple of my siblings (not all) managed to grow up without anything close to that (the others, well, not so fortunate).

Like so many here, there are certain things I just will not discuss when with my family. I get to see them so seldom that doing that allows me to enjoy my time with them.

It's a compromise.

 

[Goldeniangel]

i think i'd call them racist too. lol. i get up in arms about stuff like that... blah. there are DEF whites who takes minimum wage jobs, and it's not like the Mexicans don't WANT higher paying jobs.

anyway, not the point.
my solution in that kind of situation is to take the high road, you say, "I think it's really wrong of you to say something like that and it makes me very uncomfortable to be around you when you are saying something like that. So can we please change the subject?"

This has the added advantage of making them feel stupid and petty and like you've won. which you have.
on theo ther hand, i'm also known for being a vindictive bitch, s you may not want to follow my advice... lol. its equal parts getting them to shut up and makign them feel bad... yeah. that's how i do things when peopel piss me off. lol.
*HUGS*
angel

 

[oggbashan]

I am very proud of what my father did with his life and what he achieved. There were certain things I couldn't discuss with him and some subjects where I knew what his response would be.

He was happy to deal with individuals of any race or religion and to treat them as people from whom he could learn something new, a different viewpoint perhaps, or a new fact or two.

However he still thought in stereotypes for race, religion and gender - in the abstract e.g. 'All West Indian men are lazy' even when he knew two or three high achieving West Indians.

He couldn't extrapolate from the individual he knew and respected to the group that formed his stereotype.

What shocked me, and my brother, was his will. In it he was very specific that my brother should have all his personal possessions because 'he has sons that will carry on the family name' and I only have daughters.

My brother, his executor, disregarded that direction and I have a few keepsakes from my father. One of my daughters has kept my surname after marriage as her professional name. One of my brother's sons considered taking his wife's surname because her father was concerned that his name would die out because he had daughters. For a while my nephew hyphenated his name (her surname-his surname) but they soon dropped it because it was too much of a mouthful. In my father's case his surname was going to be continued anyway because his elder son had sons and his elder brother had a son who had a grandson, who had a great-grandson. In my nephew's father-in-law's case his brother also had sons so the surname would continue.

What my mother would have said to my father, if she hadn't predeceased him before he made that will, would have been unprintable. What my sister would have said if she hadn't died aged 12? What HIS elder sister, a high achieving former suffragette, would have said I know. She constantly attacked my father's stereotypes of women, forcing him to face the reality that she had out-achieved him despite the handicap of being a woman employed from the 1910s to the 1980s. He could adapt to an individual woman being 'better' than him without changing his own prejudices about women in general.

Sigh. Sometimes I know that my prejudices are just as stupid.

Og

 

[impressive]

Sorry, babe. You're right. They're wrong. (If only it were that easy.)

 

[ABSTRUSE]

There comes an inevitable time when family will turn on each other like a pack of dogs until the next tragic or joyous occasion comes about and a revelation takes place.

Family is as intimate as the group that live under your roof....and the ones here too.

 

[lil_elvis]

Just be glad that your parents don't receive the Limbaugh letter and look upon it as some kind of monthly epistle.

 

[shereads]

BWAH!

Thanks, Sher, I really needed that this morning.

You know I don't feel any better about the entire situation? And that isn't the rum hangover speaking.

Hellbaby - I'm not thrilled with illegals in this country. That is a major problem and needs to be dealt with, especially in matters of medical and educational assistance. It is bankrupting certain areas of our country. And as so many dishonest companies take advantage of the illegals, obviously legalized citizens would be the best thing.

But the point of "discussion" with my family wasn't really about that. It centered on their comment about how it was ok for all those "Mexicans" to come in to the country because whites wouldn't do the kind of work they'd do anyway.

And I took offense to the comment, not just for the words, but for what that line of thought represented in their overall view of people.

My sister? Well, we haven't been on quality speaking terms since my brother's illness and death two years ago. I suppose I've come to expect this kind of bullshit from her.

But I'm damn shocked that my well-educated parents have become bigots.

I know how you feel.

My dad, God bless him, was slightly to the right of Atilla the Hun, politically. We salvaged our relationship when I was old enough to realize that his bigotry was all rhetoric; in the conduct of his life, he treated everyone with respect. His politics harmed no one but himself. The end of the Soviet Union was a terrible blow to bigots of my dad's era. Terrorism wasn't yet front-and-center, so they were left with no serious threat to democracy. Thank God for Hilary Clinton. Worrying about what she was up to added several years to my dad's life.



My point is, if Hilary Clinton had met my dad and said she was on crack and needed to borrow five dollars, he'd have given her ten. The last ten in his pocket. Bums of all races and persuasions who wanted to take advantage of someone's generous spirit could always spot my dad in a crowd. He'd have been drummed out of the Bigots Society (and a few organizations too embarrassing to mention) if they'd known he secretly practiced Tolerance.

I guess that's the thing you have to examine: do they behave like bigots or just talk the talk? Hate speech is unloveable no matter the circumstances, but if it's confined to family bitching sessions, maybe it's enough that you've made your objection known and that you refuse to participate when the topic comes up again.

FYI, my sister says I'm a Godless Communist and has cut off communication between us. If she knew how happy that makes me, she'd be livid.



I tried explaining once that I''m not a Godless Communist but a Religion-less Leftist. Luckily for me, she didn't like that either.