I've been rejected!

[TxRad]

I wanted to know if there was a good reason or a reasonable explanation for the rejection. I wanted to know if there was something I'm not thinking about that might explain why.

And the only person who can give a definitive answer is the site owner and only moderator, Laurel.

If you want to continue to argue with everyone, that is their problem for continuing to feed you.

 

[TQM]

No one's ignored what you're saying. You got your answers in the first few responses. Now, your just repeating the same tantrum over and over. Nothing about your situation will change using this method. It is abundantly clear that you either lack the will to act on the advice given to you or the intelligence. Either way, there is no help for your problem here. You clearly don't care if your story gets published, or have the slightest concerns about artistic integrity. You only wish to argue, and I have no more time for the ranting of an entitled child. Good day Karen.

Now that's just untrue. The responses I received - instead of defending an author's right - criticized my chapter numbering. Where is the "artistic integrity" in that?

For the umpteenth time - I wasn't looking for help from you or anyone.

I asked for a reasonable explanation for why - of all the things that could and should be rejected - that numbering your chapters in an usual way would be the thing to choose.

Last point - you've used the name 'Karen' twice, now, as an insult. It's terribly inappropriate. You have the right to respond to me further, but please do not.

You already know what I think of you, and your attempt to deliberately provoke.

 

[MsNatalie99]

Now that's just untrue. The responses I received - instead of defending an author's right - criticized my chapter numbering. Where is the "artistic integrity" in that?

For the umpteenth time - I wasn't looking for help from you or anyone.

I asked for a reasonable explanation for why - of all the things that could and should be rejected - that numbering your chapters in an usual way would be the thing to choose.

Last point - you've used the name 'Karen' twice, now, as an insult. It's terribly inappropriate. You have the right to respond to me further, but please do not.

You already know what I think of you, and your attempt to deliberately provoke.

Take it up with the manager. I'm bored now gonna play skyrim. Bye

 

[jaF0]

Ya' know, the furst page of this thread wuz kinda interestin', but now it's just gettin' redundant and repetitive and saying' the same stuffz ovur and ovur ag'in.

 

[TQM]

I wanted to know if there was a good reason or a reasonable explanation for the rejection. I wanted to know if there was something I'm not thinking about that might explain why.

And the only person who can give a definitive answer is the site owner and only moderator, Laurel.

If you want to continue to argue with everyone, that is their problem for continuing to feed you.

Thank you. Yes - this person Laurel - is the only person who can answer as to why.
I have received some insight from a few here - and I appreciate it. I very deliberately went to the authors' hangout.

But yes - I expected authors to defend their own creativity better than they did in this thread.

If there was a content issue with what I wrote - I totally get it. But to reject over creative chapter numbering can be an attack on how an author writes.

I would guess the person who made the decision (if it wasn't a bot) thought it was some kind of mistake.

 

[TQM]

Ya' know, the furst page of this thread wuz kinda interestin', but now it's just gettin' redundant and repetitive and saying' the same stuffz ovur and ovur ag'in.

Yes - just as it went somewhere, the same older refuted points keep coming back.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Yes - just as it went somewhere, the same older refuted points keep coming back.

This is going to be my last comment on this.
You haven't refuted anyone's points about the chapter numbering. You've simply objected to them and stated that you found them implausible as explanations.

Your bringing up other authors in other settings publishing series of books written nonchronologically is not a refutation of conventional chapter numbering being preferred by this site's owner/operator in the service of reader understanding.

You've decided that unconventional chapter numbering is a matter of artistic license that should have been defended. Well, maybe the rest of us are too simpleminded to appreciate your greatness, but personally, I don't make that connection.

Maybe for your next chapter, you can put all the words in reverse order and come back to complain about the pedestrian rejection notice citing too many grammar errors. That thread would be a hoot.

 

[TQM]

This is going to be my last comment on this.
You haven't refuted anyone's points about the chapter numbering. You've simply objected to them and stated that you found them implausible as explanations.

Your bringing up other authors in other settings publishing series of books written nonchronologically is not a refutation of conventional chapter numbering being preferred by this site's owner/operator in the service of reader understanding.

You've decided that unconventional chapter numbering is a matter of artistic license that should have been defended. Well, maybe the rest of us are too simpleminded to appreciate your greatness, but personally, I don't make that connection.

Maybe for your next chapter, you can put all the words in reverse order and come back to complain about the pedestrian rejection notice citing too many grammar errors. That thread would be a hoot.

Ladgay itsay ouryay astlay ommentcay. Anksthay oodnessgay orfay atthay.

Artistic license should have been defended.

 

[UtherVierDragon]

They say Hemmingway was the first (literary) person to start a sentence with the word 'And'. Conventions are to be explored.

Bertram. And I in going, madam, weep o'er my father's death
anew: but I must attend his majesty's command, to 5
whom I am now in ward, evermore in subjection.

And weird numbering to indicate a time jump ain't that clever neither.

 

[jsmiam]

As a world renowned scorekeeper, let’s summarize the posts, by number.

Post 11 - “feeble minded” indirect insult
12 - toward RR, direct insult
13 - Compares self to HEMMINGWAY!
22 - “pretty weak” indirect insult
23 - “non-sequitir” direct insult
26 “absurd”, somewhat indirect
33 - denial, plus accusations of rudeness. (From the author of 11, 12, 22, 23, 26)
44 - denial of beef with anyone (from the poster of 11, 12, 22, 23, 26, 33)
53 - denial of being feisty (from the poster of ... wait... fingers getting tired
53 - special mention. Comparing self to ASIMOV!!
56 - direct accusation of “knee jerk reaction”. Comparing self to ASIMOV again!!!
58 - denying being angry. Comparing self to ASIMOV!!!! (Hint - one exclamation mark per author comparison)
61 - pushback over “Karen” reference. (From the poster of 11, 22, 26, 56...)
64 - “absurdity” - somewhat indirect
67 - Neither here not there, but complaining about lack of defense from fellow authors (Lit authors, that is, not HEMMINGWAY or Asimov)
68 - compares self to WITTGENSTEIN!!!!!
71, 73 - No real complaining, defensiveness, insulting, famous author self references, or self pity. Good job! Hmm. You wrote these, right?
75 - direct insult. I got tired of noting how/who though.
78 - self pity on lack of support, and complaining about insults!!! (Note: these exclamation marks have different meaning to the author comparison exclamation marks)
81 - self pity on lack of support
82 - Neuetral, but amusing reference to points coming back.
84 - self pity on lack of support

Darn, I didn’t notice what number the second reference to feeble mindedness was (redundant and repetitive). Too much trouble, since it was on a different page.

I know, I know... All the above is vehemently denied...

 

[soulhouse]

Kind of digressing here but was it originally released that way? I read several of those books, and I don't remember the first published foundation book as being described as a middle chapter. I think Asimov went back and wrote some prequels years later that were about the inventor of what he called psychohistory.

I believe you are correct. Asimov wrote the original Foundation trilogy from 1951-53. I read them at the beginning of the 80s, at which time they were chapters 1, 2 and 3, I believe. He then began writing sequels in the 80s, followed by 2 prequels at the end of the 80s and in the mid 90s. I think at some point along the way the instalments were renamed for clarity.

 

[TQM]

Kind of digressing here but was it originally released that way? I read several of those books, and I don't remember the first published foundation book as being described as a middle chapter. I think Asimov went back and wrote some prequels years later that were about the inventor of what he called psychohistory. That's a little different.

Of course, George Lucas did what you're describing with SW, deciding to start with a middle chapter. Star Wars had an opening crawl that got you up to date with the story, like the old serials that influenced him would do. He did it that way for a reason. I'm not sure that non linear type of story telling is a valid comparison to what you're trying to do, though.

I'm not sure what the point is of doing it the way you are, what you're trying to accomplish, like other posters in this thread. Many stories will skip over certain events or a have a gap in time where nothing really interesting or important happens. Usually they'll have the story pick up in the next chapter, instead of leaving out a chapter to sort of represent what they've skipped. Skipping a chapter like that doesn't seem necessary to accomplish what you want to do.

Here is the wikipedia on The Foundations Series: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_series#Asimov's_Foundation_series_novels. I've heard of it; but haven't read it.

I'm the one that made the point that there could be many, many reasons for putting things out of order. Now that I've thought of it, I think it would be a great exercise to write a series of stories where each successive one, helps explain what is going on in the earlier one. It would be an immense project, for sure, but there is no reason it can't be done. I'm not suggesting I'm a great author to do this kind of experiment - I'm just imagining the logical space of ideas here.

My basic point was a simple one. There is a chapter 2, and I choose not to write about it. Maybe one day - I will think of something to fixate on - and decide to make a chapter 2. I even like the idea - proposed by someone else in this thread - of a later chapter of the sort 2.5 - filling a gap between a gap. It's a clever idea. (Or it's a stupid one -but not one worth rejecting the story over!)

Basically the idea is simple. You've read chapter 1; you are now reading chapter 3 - you're job as a reader is to fill in the story as you would any other story to get from where we ended in chapter 1 to where we are in chapter 3. Human beings fill in this kind of extrapolation all the time to figure out how to bridge the gaps.

I'm watching an older television series now where the 2nd season was filmed several years after the first. They did their numbers right (unlike me). But everyone - including the kids - are several years older now. And all we get are hints of what we missed seeing of these families in the years in between. The mind builds connecting stories even when much is left unsaid. I'm playing on that.

And whether I've done it well or not - why reject it over this? That's really my point.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

This is a story website; not an art gallery. And labelling something 'artistic' doesn't give anyone the obligation to put it on display. But probably we'll soon find out whether Laurel is flexible enough to provide you the artistic freedom or not.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Chimpanzee_congo_painting.jpg

I just see a bunch of bugs in that art.

 

[TQM]

This is a story website; not an art gallery. And labelling something 'artistic' doesn't give anyone the obligation to put it on display. But probably we'll soon find out whether Laurel is flexible enough to provide you the artistic freedom or not.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Chimpanzee_congo_painting.jpg

And art is actually something I've written about extensively.

You are right - there is no obligation to publish what I write. But I never was saying there was. You're arguing against a strawman here.

I'm not saying my story was good. I'm not claiming anyone had an obligation to publish it. I'm saying the reason for rejecting it is funny. That's all.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Knee jerk answers will get only get you so far in life. Look what google just showed me:

"Isaac Asimov wrote the Foundation series out of chronological order. Numbering his books in chronological order 1 - 7, they were written and published in the order 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 1, 2.

What is your point?

Nobody, nobody here has said you can't tell a story out of chronological order. Just that it's a bad idea to number them in a way that doesn't match reading order.

Asimov didn't title his series "Foundation Part 3", "Foundation Part 4", etc. etc. so this is irrelevant to what you're trying to do.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm the one that made the point that there could be many, many reasons for putting things out of order. Now that I've thought of it, I think it would be a great exercise to write a series of stories where each successive one, helps explain what is going on in the earlier one.

You may enjoy Christopher Nolan's film "Memento".

I'm watching an older television series now where the 2nd season was filmed several years after the first. They did their numbers right (unlike me). But everyone - including the kids - are several years older now. And all we get are hints of what we missed seeing of these families in the years in between. The mind builds connecting stories even when much is left unsaid. I'm playing on that.

Yes. Leaving gaps in a narrative is a time-honoured literary device and nobody is telling you that you shouldn't do that. Only that wonky numbering isn't the way to go about it. A "counter-example" that has gaps or non-chronological sequence, but doesn't feature wonky numbering, isn't an argument against this.

But I've got better things to do than keep arguing with it. You came here, you got advice, you argued with all of it, good luck doing your own thing. Don't get arrested jacking off at Toronto Airport.

 

[TQM]

What is your point?

Nobody, nobody here has said you can't tell a story out of chronological order. Just that it's a bad idea to number them in a way that doesn't match reading order.

Asimov didn't title his series "Foundation Part 3", "Foundation Part 4", etc. etc. so this is irrelevant to what you're trying to do.

1. "nobody here has said you can't tell a story out of choronological order."

Reply: I've never claimed they had. What exactly is your point?

2. "it's a bad idea to number them in a way that doesn't match reading order."

Reply: my numbering does match reading order. You read 1 before 3. (Though both work as stand-alone as well.)

I've explained why I labelled it 3 and not 2. You don't have to like the explanation. But whether you like it or not or my writing or not isn't relevant.

Also - it's not a bad idea to number them in a way that doesn't match reading order if there is a good overriding reason to do so. There is nothing wrong with pushing boundaries. I again am not saying I'm a great writer. I'm just saying most people in this thread are refusing to address the only question I asked.

 

[RejectReality]

Why was it rejected?

Because Laurel assumed it was an error on your part. You had an existing chapter 1, and your next submission was chapter 3. She assumed that you'd somehow forgotten to upload 2. That's why it was rejected, to prevent you from accidentally leaving out a chapter.

Why would she assume that? I don't really need to answer that, do I?

She may very well allow you to publish the series as desired, with the missing chapters. This particular rejection ( which is a standard, if fairly rare one ) is more about protecting you from yourself than anything else. Since you're choosing to charge headlong into the minefield, she may very well shrug and let you do it, secure in the knowledge that she tried to warn you.

The biggest complaint of series readers is incomplete stories. Many won't touch one that isn't already complete. Having a missing chapter 2 means that even after you pen "The End" on whatever your final chapter is, those readers will still ignore it.

You'd be better served to stick to standard conventions, and if you choose to go back and tell a story in that previously skipped over time period, write it as a standalone with an author's note describing where it fits into the timeline. That way you accomplish your goal of leaving the opening to tell the story if you choose without confusing and alienating readers.

At some point in the far-flung future, when the author-directed series function comes online, you'll even be able to put them in chronological order regardless of, or in the absence of any numbering schemes.

As I said in the beginning, you're shooting yourself in the foot with this. If you're satisfied with only those readers willing to ignore such a basic convention as sequential numbering, then so be it.

Just don't be surprised when the results are less than stellar.

 

[missyunderstanding]

anatomical correct and life size

And here I was about to start selling toys based on my stories. I was all set to start selling a life-size Victoria doll complete with tight jeans that can be rolled down. Was also starting the design of the Baby Victoria doll complete with baby tight jeans.

Do not give up on your dreams just because of the Star Wars flop. Your doll idea has merit. Just make sure that the doll is anatomical correct and life size with moving parts and heat, moisture and vibration. The main thing is to remember to release the dolls for the market with the correct numerical order.

 

[Emirus]

Give up while you’re behind.

I can’t understand why this thread is still continuing as it’s obvious the OP is going to go his own merry way whatever anyone says.

 

[lovecraft68]

Do not give up on your dreams just because of the Star Wars flop. Your doll idea has merit. Just make sure that the doll is anatomical correct and life size with moving parts and heat, moisture and vibration. The main thing is to remember to release the dolls for the market with the correct numerical order.

Yes, No one will buy Victoria 3.0 if it comes out before 2.0...they'll think they missed a version and get pissed off when they can't find it.

In the meantime I spoke with my father and we are going to change our names so he's JR and I'm SR so we can explain how JR was born 22 years before SR.

 

[TQM]

Why was it rejected?

Because Laurel assumed it was an error on your part. You had an existing chapter 1, and your next submission was chapter 3. She assumed that you'd somehow forgotten to upload 2. That's why it was rejected, to prevent you from accidentally leaving out a chapter.

Why would she assume that? I don't really need to answer that, do I?

She may very well allow you to publish the series as desired, with the missing chapters. This particular rejection ( which is a standard, if fairly rare one ) is more about protecting you from yourself than anything else. Since you're choosing to charge headlong into the minefield, she may very well shrug and let you do it, secure in the knowledge that she tried to warn you.

The biggest complaint of series readers is incomplete stories. Many won't touch one that isn't already complete. Having a missing chapter 2 means that even after you pen "The End" on whatever your final chapter is, those readers will still ignore it.

You'd be better served to stick to standard conventions, and if you choose to go back and tell a story in that previously skipped over time period, write it as a standalone with an author's note describing where it fits into the timeline. That way you accomplish your goal of leaving the opening to tell the story if you choose without confusing and alienating readers.

At some point in the far-flung future, when the author-directed series function comes online, you'll even be able to put them in chronological order regardless of, or in the absence of any numbering schemes.

As I said in the beginning, you're shooting yourself in the foot with this. If you're satisfied with only those readers willing to ignore such a basic convention as sequential numbering, then so be it.

Just don't be surprised when the results are less than stellar.

Well -I can certainly see the possibility of reading it - and thinking I've mislabeled it. It is a very, very long story. Maybe the person who rejected it did think I labeled it in error. The message back said I had to publish chapter 2 first - which doesn't quite fit this theory of yours - but as a theory in general, I think it is a good one. The message did not warn me that I had mislabeled it. It said I had to publish chapter 2 first. But maybe you're right....

You are warning me about shooting myself in the foot. Consider myself shot! Maybe some will choose not to read it. After the commotion of this thread, I more than ever want to see the results of it being published as is. I'm more interested now, than ever - just to see what happens. It's not like my career is in jeopardy here.

All of my chapter stories - I get emails asking me to finish them. The thing is - what they see as finished isn't what I see as finished. They can't imagine I write a story about a cheating wife without writing a further chapter where she is found out by her husband. That I don't write such a chapter means some think it is unfinished. But I never had such goals in the first place. I've been much more interested in writing about how someone gradually changes his/her mind on the issue of being faithful or not. I'm not interested in moralizing about it one way or the other. I'm not interested in writing about further hook-ups, once the deed has been done.

So yes - people want stories finished. But a lot of people read me and want endings that have nothing to do with what I'm trying to do.

 

[TQM]

Do not give up on your dreams just because of the Star Wars flop. Your doll idea has merit. Just make sure that the doll is anatomical correct and life size with moving parts and heat, moisture and vibration. The main thing is to remember to release the dolls for the market with the correct numerical order.

I'm on it. The doll even says, "Time's up" on the hour.

 

[TQM]

Yes, No one will buy Victoria 3.0 if it comes out before 2.0...they'll think they missed a version and get pissed off when they can't find it.

In the meantime I spoke with my father and we are going to change our names so he's JR and I'm SR so we can explain how JR was born 22 years before SR.

Maybe you're right - no one will read the next chapter. Really, though, there is only one way to find out - to publish it.

But I'm not fearful of pissing someone off. Given the reaction here - which isn't what I thought I'd get - I certainly want to see what happens.

And if no one really reads it - so what? I honestly will be surprised if that happens - but again - so what?

While we're on the subject of jr vs. sr. - there is, in Prague, the Old New Synagogue. And apparently there are a lot of books with oddly numbered chapters. Check out the literature section under this:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnusualChapterNumbers

My idea is both stupid - and done before. Oh well.

 

[TQM]

I can’t understand why this thread is still continuing as it’s obvious the OP is going to go his own merry way whatever anyone says.

Good point.

1) perhaps it is because you've mischaracterized something - that would explain your lack of understanding.

2) perhaps it isn't about whether the OP (me) will go my own merry way or not.

3) perhaps the OP thought we'd see a discussion on writers' and artistic expression.

4) perhaps it just seems - and I've used this word before - funny - funny that it is permissible here to write stories about incest - but not permissible to number your chapters in an alternative way.

Those are just guesses as to your inability to understand.