It makes me sad...

[S-Des]

Isn't it odd that we left the Britihs Empire to persue our own freedom and now the land that we left is more fee than ours? Dispite our claim of "Land of the Free". We really need to qualify that now to read:

"Land of the Free White Christians. *Limited offer of Freedom does not apply to Blacks, Jews, Mexicans, Gays, Muslims or any other minority. See Constitutional Amendments for details."

So you're saying none of those groups has freedoms? I'd love to see your facts to support that claim. I find the fact that this issue can't be discussed rationally without resorting to name calling of anyone who disagrees with your opinion is sad. It's funny, just a week ago Liar said he wasn't aware of any bias against Christians on the board, yet here we are calling anyone who disagrees with a specific opinion "bible thumpers" and "hate mongers" (without any factual disussion of the religious beliefs of the voters or how it figures into their opinions). Then somehow, you've managed to lump all "white christians" as bigots against all races and religions. So who exactly is the intolerant one?

Maybe you could convince more people that your opinion was morally superior if you weren't attacking them at the same time you were trying to show how compassionate you are.

 

[angelicminx]

~~
Massachusetts is the only state in the nation where gay marriage is legal. The proposed amendment would define marriage as the union of one man and one woman, but would not undo same-sex marriages that already occurred. [/i]

Hopefully this will die before it reaches the vote.

Minor side trip... I thought gay marriage was legal in New Jersey as well.

Where is gay marriage legal?

Cherry Hill, New Jersey is the setting for 'Now and Forever', because I thought it was...

 

[minsue]

So you're saying none of those groups has freedoms? I'd love to see your facts to support that claim. I find the fact that this issue can't be discussed rationally without resorting to name calling of anyone who disagrees with your opinion is sad. It's funny, just a week ago Liar said he wasn't aware of any bias against Christians on the board, yet here we are calling anyone who disagrees with a specific opinion "bible thumpers" and "hate mongers" (without any factual disussion of the religious beliefs of the voters or how it figures into their opinions). Then somehow, you've managed to lump all "white christians" as bigots against all races and religions. So who exactly is the intolerant one?

Maybe you could convince more people that your opinion was morally superior if you weren't attacking them at the same time you were trying to show how compassionate you are.

It's a matter of all squares being rectangles, but not all rectangles being squares. No one said all christians are bigots, hatemongers, or bible thumpers, S. Not even close. But for myself, I have never seen a protest against gays that did not include bible quotes or mention god or sin on the posters. It's a sad fact of life. The Christian right is very vocal. Until the majority of christians stand up and say, "They don't speak for us," they will continue to be tarred with the same brush by some people. However, I did not see anyone here do that but you.

 

[Curse_Of_Undeath]

I'm against marriage being an institution of the State. After all, marriage is primarily a religious union and I'm against anything having to do with religion being overseen by the government.

If Christians/Jews/Muslims/Whatever don't want to allow homosexuals to marry WITHIN their religion, then they shouldn't be forced to. There are plenty of other religious groups that are cool with gays marrying, such as the Unitarian Universalists, Wiccans/Pagans, Satanists, or what have you. On the legal front, if a couple (homo- or hetero-) want to make their domestic partnership legally binding, they should have a civil union performed.

So yeah, I'm against gay marriage being a legal institution, not because I'm a homophobe, but on the grounds of the First Amendment. I think homophobia is one of the worst examples of collectivist behavior imaginable, along with racism and sexism. I just feel that this is one of those things where discussing the issue is more important to people than actually resolving it.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

All legal unions, same sex or opposite sex, should be handled by the state. I don't even think it should have to be an intimate or loving relationship. Civil unions should also be afforded to any two persons that would otherwise qualify for a common-law union. If a couple chooses to have that union blessed by whatever religious faction they find appropriate and willing they can seek as a separate issue/ceremony. The rights and protections, however, should not be mandated by any church or limited to any one specific 'style' of relationship.

 

[Curse_Of_Undeath]

All legal unions, same sex or opposite sex, should be handled by the state. I don't even think it should have to be an intimate or loving relationship. Civil unions should also be afforded to any two persons that would otherwise qualify for a common-law union. If a couple chooses to have that union blessed by whatever religious faction they find appropriate and willing they can seek as a separate issue/ceremony. The rights and protections, however, should not be mandated by any church or limited to any one specific 'style' of relationship.

Basically, what I said in a single paragraph .

Eh, I'm just messin' with ya .

 

[cheerful_deviant]

So you're saying none of those groups has freedoms? I'd love to see your facts to support that claim. I find the fact that this issue can't be discussed rationally without resorting to name calling of anyone who disagrees with your opinion is sad. It's funny, just a week ago Liar said he wasn't aware of any bias against Christians on the board, yet here we are calling anyone who disagrees with a specific opinion "bible thumpers" and "hate mongers" (without any factual disussion of the religious beliefs of the voters or how it figures into their opinions). Then somehow, you've managed to lump all "white christians" as bigots against all races and religions. So who exactly is the intolerant one?

Maybe you could convince more people that your opinion was morally superior if you weren't attacking them at the same time you were trying to show how compassionate you are.

Noware in my original post did I say all white christians are bigots. I'm a white christian and don't consider myself a bigot so obviously the all doesn't work. What I was saying is that the current trend in the US is for the majority, being white christians, are currently proposing more and more legislation to limit or take away the rights of other groups because they are different, ie: saying gay's can't marry.

I use this argument because the major push for the ammendment banning gay marrige has been from religious groups. Everyone here knows their arguments, "It's against nature." "It's not God's will." etc. I don't need to repear them all here. The point is it's them trying to get a state law imposing their religious beliefs on others who don't have the same beliefs. Hence: Biblethumpers.

As for me calling them bigots. Well, in my opinion, anytime you have one person or group who has some said right or privilage and is now trying to take away or deny that right from another person or group based on thier personal religious beliefs dislike, hate, loating, fear, lack of understanding or whatever of the other, it is descrimination, which makes them a Bigot in my book.

As for the freedoms of minorities, everyone here knows about racial descrimination, profiling, etc. If you need some facts and figures feel free to read this report on traffic stops in Rhode Island. While driving, Minorities are stopped more often and once stopped, are searched more often. Hence, their freedoms are not being weighted the same as a white. Want more proof, talk to any Muslim trying to board an airplane. More proof? Talk to some of the members of the gay/lesbian community or read their blogs to see just what many (not all) of the 'White Christians" in the United States think of them and how welcome they make them feel in their community.