Islamic & Christian Fundamentalism--What's the difference?

[MichaelinChina]

Originally Posted by underguy1

How ironic.


BB:

Another term you clearly don't know how to use.

That's cute, but doesn't mean shit.


But it was fine for you to refer to it when it suited you.

 

[MichaelinChina]

Yes.

good we agree!

It doesn't have to be created, it's naturally occurring.

It doesn't occur naturally...it's a social creation!!!



Pretty damn close......

and again, we agree.

How about your use of plutarchies and oligarchies as a stage?

 

[BotanyBoy]

But it was fine for you to refer to it when it suited you.

I didn't use 'the rest of the English speaking world thinks' as an argument.

Sorry.

 

[BotanyBoy]

and again, we agree.

How about your use of plutarchies and oligarchies as a stage?

It does occur naturally, people are not equal.


How do I use them as a stage?

 

[MichaelinChina]

I didn't use 'the rest of the English speaking world thinks' as an argument.

Sorry.

I think you'll find that 'the rest of the English speaking world' (not including the 300 million Chinese English speakers) would include the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Sth Africa (maybe because lots of Dutch blood there), have a much higher appreciation and understanding of irony than the average American.
Compare the humour in the TV shows of many of those countries for a start to understand 'irony'. US shows have an irony bypass, even the ones they adapt for US audiences cannot 'get' irony. They don't get the humour. The joke is on you then as we just shake our heads in wonder.

 

[MichaelinChina]

It does occur naturally, people are not equal.


People are equal. We are all born from a woman. Then the social factors kick in (education, gender, race/ethnicity etc) to produce inequality.

What you believe in is social Darwinism. Which is fine for most 'economists' who don't usually figure people into their market equations.

How do I use them as a stage?

sigh....you don't get the finer points of political economy do you?

 

[BotanyBoy]

I think you'll find that 'the rest of the English speaking world' (not including the 300 million Chinese English speakers) would include the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Sth Africa (maybe because lots of Dutch blood there), have a much higher appreciation and understanding of irony than the average American.

Compare the humour in the TV shows of many of those countries for a start to understand 'irony'. US shows have an irony bypass, even the ones they adapt for US audiences cannot 'get' irony. They don't get the humour. The joke is on you then as we just shake our heads in wonder.

Ok.....that's a sweeping generalization of over 300 million people.

Not an argument for his correctness.

 

[BotanyBoy]

People are equal. We are all born from a woman.

No they are not, they are so not equal on so many levels it's mind boggling how anyone could actually think we are and the fact that we are a sexually reproducing species doesn't make everyone equal.

Then the social factors kick in (education, gender, race/ethnicity etc) to produce inequality.

They play their role, but they aren't everything. Some people are better at certain things than others. Some are stronger, smarter, faster, less inhibited....there are factors unique to EVERY INDIVIDUAL that also play into their lives.

What you believe in is social Darwinism. Which is fine for most 'economists' who don't usually figure people into their market equations.

It's not a matter of economics it's a matter of biology.

sigh....you don't get the finer points of political economy do you?

Such as?

 

[MichaelinChina]

Ok.....that's a sweeping generalization of over 300 million people.

Not an argument for his correctness.

Jesus, let's take this thread further away from the topic and debate the geographies and the finer points of 'irony' shall we?

And as I said, brush up on your political economy then come back and discuss it.

 

[MichaelinChina]

No they are not, they are so not equal on so many levels it's mind boggling how anyone could actually think we are and the fact that we are a sexually reproducing species doesn't make everyone equal.


They play their role, but they aren't everything. Some people are better at certain things than others. Some are stronger, smarter, faster, less inhibited....there are factors unique to EVERY INDIVIDUAL that also play into their lives.



It's not a matter of economics it's a matter of biology.


Such as?

Pure Social Darwinism! Survival of the fittest. So convenient to explain away inequalities as 'natural'.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

There is no such fucking thing as Social Darwinism...

 

[BotanyBoy]

Jesus, let's take this thread further away from the topic and debate the geographies and the finer points of 'irony' shall we?

Get here faster, that train left pages ago. Besides I didn't bring it up

And as I said, brush up on your political economy then come back and discuss it.

How about ya cut the bullshit and tell me what you're getting at or you can take the discussion and fuck yourself with it....

Pure Social Darwinism! Survival of the fittest. So convenient to explain away inequalities as 'natural'.

It's not convenient, and it doesn't explain away anything.

I'm 6'4" tall and weigh 230lbs, I'm bigger than most and smaller than some. That's a natural inequality and it comes with it's perks/pitfalls.

My skin color, society and education didn't have a fucking thing to do with it.

 

[RoryN]

You're all crazy. - Fundamentalist Christians

You're going to hell. - Fundamentalist Muslims

Are you going to hell? - Fundamentalist Christians

No. -Fundamentalist Muslims

Then sign me the fuck up. - Fundamentalist Christians

__________________

I'm brilliant. I get copied all the time.

 

[RobDownSouth]

There is no such fucking thing as Social Darwinism...

Nowadays, most people call it "Libertarianism".
*nods*

 

[richard_daily]

True, I'm not arguing that.

But it is no longer capitalism.

But it is. This is what capitalism leads to. We're there. We've done it. Maybe it should be called something else at this stage in the game, but this is definitely the result of capitalism.

I will say however unfettered free-market capitalism is some good shit, until it's allowed to start buying government officials. That's when keeping it real goes wrong.

Now on both sides of the isle we regulate just for the sake of regulating....just to make sure poor people have no chance of doing better for themselves.

So it's good shit, until it's not. You can't blame the horse for the cart that it brought in.

The result of capitalism is that people will buy power. That's built right into the basic premise. You can't prevent it in a free market. In fact, it's inevitable.

Right, and I never said they don't like regulation.

What I am saying is that the MOMENT they start using the government to do that they cease to be capitalist and at that point in time become an oligarch, a plutocrat specifically.

Obtaining the power of government through wealth.....it's not capitalism.

It's the inevitable result of capitalism. Oligarchy and plutocracy are what we get from engaging in free-market capitalism.

That is not capitalism under even the most remote definition of the term, that is a corporate oligarchy and they are not the same thing.

IF we put regulations in place to separate big money from big government we just might have capitalism again.

But when the two start jerking each other off you either get socialism or corporate feudalism depending on who's tha bauss and who's tha underbauss.

There is no going back. You can't close the barn door after the horses are out (sorry for so many animal references).

RD is spot on here. Fully 90% of the laws and regulations on the books, State, Federal, and local, are 'protectionist' in nature. They were lobbied for by various special interest groups to restrict competition in their particular area of business operations. They all are called 'consumer protection' laws because, well, because you, the consumer, are too God damned stupid to take care of your own business interests. And you, the consumer, swallow that line of horse shit because, well, for the most part, they're right, you ARE too God damned stupid. So you promote the state, guided by these special interests, to be your mommy and daddy. Making you, to use a kind phrase, a dependent. Slave would be the less gentle term.

The Clinton's don't give a shit about you. They long ago sold their soul to these special interest groups in order to enrich and gain power for themselves.

They all represent what 'capitalism' has morphed into. Capitalism isn't the problem, you are. The sons and daughters of once free men who are too God damned stupid, or lazy, to manage your own affairs. When you have ceded enough of your ability to make choices to the state and the special interests behind that state then you can well and truly be called 'wards of the state.' And it was all accomplished without having to build an institution to keep you behind the walls of.

Ishmael

I'm always afraid when we agree with each other... and while I don't think that "free men" exist in the amorphous sense that you believe they did at some point in the 1700s, we all have free will and agency.

The only vote that politicians care about, is where you spend your money. Everything else can be rigged and controlled for their own interests... and it will be. Time after time.

That's the only way to affect change in this day and age, and given the perimeters of the system we're confined in.

 

[MichaelinChina]

Great response.

But I fear the facts will get in the way of BBs ideology.

 

[Conager]

Crony corporatism was not the natural result of capitalism it was the natural result of federalism. If we hadn't given the almighty federal government all the power that it currently has every time you run into this kind of crap you'd simply find yourself a town did did not engage in it. Towns that engaged in this sort of crap would fail towns that did not would thrive.

 

[MichaelinChina]

Crony corporatism was not the natural result of capitalism; it was the natural result of federalism. If we hadn't given the almighty federal government all the power that it currently has, every time you run into this kind of crap, you'd simply find yourself a town did (?) did not engage in it. Towns that engaged in this sort of crap would fail; towns that did not, would thrive.

Commas and semicolons are wonderful inventions. So useful.

 

[richard_daily]

Crony corporatism was not the natural result of capitalism it was the natural result of federalism. If we hadn't given the almighty federal government all the power that it currently has every time you run into this kind of crap you'd simply find yourself a town did did not engage in it. Towns that engaged in this sort of crap would fail towns that did not would thrive.

Uhh, that's called "globalism".

Let me know how that's working out.

 

[BotanyBoy]

But it is. This is what capitalism leads to. We're there. We've done it. Maybe it should be called something else at this stage in the game, but this is definitely the result of capitalism.

No it's not.

Just like a butterfly isn't a caterpillar is it?

Once we lifted government restrictions and allowed capitalist to buy the government, the system fundamentally changed and ceased to be capitalism.

So it's good shit, until it's not. You can't blame the horse for the cart that it brought in.

No but you can blame the idiots who opened the door and let it in. You don' gore the horse and burn the cart in the living room.

The result of capitalism is that people will buy power. That's built right into the basic premise. You can't prevent it in a free market. In fact, it's inevitable.

It's the inevitable result of capitalism. Oligarchy and plutocracy are what we get from engaging in free-market capitalism.

It doesn't have to be if we would just restrict the politician/capitalist circle jerk instead of restricting the citizenry's ability to access the markets.

And no it's not what you get from free-market capitalism....it's what you get when you allow capitalism to get in bed with government.

Things don't get ugly until the government restricts the markets for the oligarchs, formerly known as capitalist.

There is no going back. You can't close the barn door after the horses are out (sorry for so many animal references).

We could but we decided Clinton would be better....

America, especially Democrats, love the 0.01% top rich people more than anything.

Long live the queen!!
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/cc/7e/d7/cc7ed72e077ff2d011aa6b420cb6c0e8.jpg

 

[BotanyBoy]

Great response.

But I fear the facts will get in the way of BBs ideology.

How's that whole 'Were all exactly the same because we all come from women.' derpology working out for you?

 

[richard_daily]

No it's not.

Just like a butterfly isn't a caterpillar is it?

Once we lifted government restrictions and allowed capitalist to buy the government, the system fundamentally changed and ceased to be capitalism.

And short of killing a caterpillar, is there any way to prevent it from becoming a butterfly?

No but you can blame the idiots who opened the door and let it in. You don' gore the horse and burn the cart in the living room.

We can blame them all we want, but the damage is still done.

It doesn't have to be if we would just restrict the politician/capitalist circle jerk instead of restricting the citizenry's ability to access the markets.

And you and I both know that won't happen with either political party in congress and the white house.

And no it's not what you get from free-market capitalism....it's what you get when you allow capitalism to get in bed with government.

How can you stop it, if you have a free market?

Things don't get ugly until the government restricts the markets for the oligarchs, formerly known as capitalist.

And money becomes power, which protects itself. There is no other way under a capitalist system.

We could but we decided Clinton would be better....

America, especially Democrats, love the 0.01% top rich people more than anything.

Long live the queen!!
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/cc/7e/d7/cc7ed72e077ff2d011aa6b420cb6c0e8.jpg

Clinton is a corporate shill. Trump is likely to be one too. So was just about every other major presidential candidate, with one exception.

Wall street has already told Clinton they won't allow her to have Warren run as her VP. Do you think she's going to go against her owners? Of course not.

Clinton is the candidate for the rich and powerful. For the oligarchs, and for the capitalists. They're the same thing.

You believe in free markets, but you don't realize that the very thing you believe in has lead to all of the things that you hate.

 

[BotanyBoy]

And short of killing a caterpillar, is there any way to prevent it from becoming a butterfly?

Hormone therapy.

You can stop it the same way you stop a theocracy.

You make laws that restrict the two from getting in bed with each other.

We can blame them all we want, but the damage is still done.

And you and I both know that won't happen with either political party in congress and the white house.

It could be un-done but America is full of morons.

How can you stop it, if you have a free market?

Same way you stop a theocracy and preserve freedom of religion, you keep government the fuck out of it.

And money becomes power, which protects itself. There is no other way under a capitalist system.

Yes there is, you keep government out of the market.

Stop SWAT teaming lemonade stands and shooting farmers, start telling the oligarchs they can't have it all.

But we want Clinton, so that's not happening.

Clinton is the candidate for the rich and powerful. For the oligarchs, and for the capitalists. They're the same thing.

Yes she is. No they are not the same thing.

A butterfly is not a caterpillar.

Once they buy power of government, they are no longer capitalist.

You believe in free markets, but you don't realize that the very thing you believe in has lead to all of the things that you hate.

That's simply not true, it's government restrictions that are protecting the rich, the government destroying the markets that I hate.

IF the government got the fuck out of the way and got back to public safety and common welfare instead of deciding who gets to be rich and how to fuck everyone else out of every dollar possible for the cool kids club. Things would be dandy for me.

 

[underguy1]

And short of killing a caterpillar, is there any way to prevent it from becoming a butterfly?



We can blame them all we want, but the damage is still done.



And you and I both know that won't happen with either political party in congress and the white house.



How can you stop it, if you have a free market?



And money becomes power, which protects itself. There is no other way under a capitalist system.



Clinton is a corporate shill. Trump is likely to be one too. So was just about every other major presidential candidate, with one exception.

Wall street has already told Clinton they won't allow her to have Warren run as her VP. Do you think she's going to go against her owners? Of course not.

Clinton is the candidate for the rich and powerful. For the oligarchs, and for the capitalists. They're the same thing.

You believe in free markets, but you don't realize that the very thing you believe in has lead to all of the things that you hate.

Amen to that. In true libertarian fashion he flounders around looking for anything to divert responsibility for what they've wrought.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Amen to that. In true libertarian fashion he flounders around looking for anything to divert responsibility for what they've wrought.

More ascription from Mr.I can't back any of my bullshit up.

And in true socialist fashion you keep ignoring the fact that the government is at the center of all the poor folks getting fucked, it's the government thugs who shoot farmers and arrest kids for making money without state approval.

Not the rich guy.