Ishmael
- Thread starter Sandia
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LovetoGiveRoses
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Cool chart...though, to be accurate, the trend should show the real collections $ or the % of the total GNP (which shows that the Gov. is taking a larger and larger % of our incomes).
LovetoGiveRoses
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Sandia said:
LOL We have a thirst for knowledge. Facts to work with to develop policy.
Ishmael
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OK
Much better chart Sandia.
First of all, it shows that the individual income tax proportion hasn't changed. And that the government has made up for the reduction of corporate taxes with the Social Security tax. (The most repressive tax of all.)
Now, the reduction in the corporate tax proportion is directly due to significant changes in government tax and accounting policies. Up to and including the capital gains tax.
As the corporate tax was increased, companies moved more of their monies into re-investment (a tax deduction) and out of dividends. The value to the stockholder was shifted from cash reserves and profits to increased stock value.
If you also notice, the decrease in corporate taxes coincided with the first binge of take-overs. Companies with good cash reserves were the first raided. It allowed the raider to get their hands on the cash and use it for other purposes. In order to avoid this, companies started taking on a higher debt load. This too is a tax write off.
What must be remembered is that all of these policies were passed by a Democratically controled congress. You see, in the end the Dems have to look out for big business. Their constituency is dependent on big business. (Notice that since '94 the percentage of corporate tax has remained more or less stable?)
Ishmael
Much better chart Sandia.
First of all, it shows that the individual income tax proportion hasn't changed. And that the government has made up for the reduction of corporate taxes with the Social Security tax. (The most repressive tax of all.)
Now, the reduction in the corporate tax proportion is directly due to significant changes in government tax and accounting policies. Up to and including the capital gains tax.
As the corporate tax was increased, companies moved more of their monies into re-investment (a tax deduction) and out of dividends. The value to the stockholder was shifted from cash reserves and profits to increased stock value.
If you also notice, the decrease in corporate taxes coincided with the first binge of take-overs. Companies with good cash reserves were the first raided. It allowed the raider to get their hands on the cash and use it for other purposes. In order to avoid this, companies started taking on a higher debt load. This too is a tax write off.
What must be remembered is that all of these policies were passed by a Democratically controled congress. You see, in the end the Dems have to look out for big business. Their constituency is dependent on big business. (Notice that since '94 the percentage of corporate tax has remained more or less stable?)
Ishmael
SINthysist
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M
miles
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Come on guys....Economics 101.
Who bears the true burden of "Corporate" taxes?
Who bears the true burden of "Corporate" taxes?
SINthysist
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The working stiff...
SINthysist
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You got the question wrong fawktards... 
Who bears the burden of gubment taxes...?
Who bears the burden of gubment taxes...?
SINthysist
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Sandia
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That whole argument about how corporations don't pay taxes is so old and boring I don't know how y'all can keep repeating the same old canards... I mean, yes, money is fungible. And yes, corporations are not real people. But the accounts corporations submit to their shareholders show them paying taxes..
The government budget records show corporations paying taxes..
Corporations hire lobbyists and accountants and lawyers to get out of paying taxes...
BUT, you say, corporations shift the burden of taxes to their customers - in violation of the laws of supply and demand, which say that fewer customers buy at higer prices.. thereby reducing profits, and constraining what corporations can charge for their products.
OR they pass the costs onto employees, by cutting their salaries.. contradicting the conservative argument that corporations compete for quality workers through salary adjustments...
The argument is basically that corporations can raise prices at will, and cut wages at will, but the third variable - PROFITS - is set in stone. No matter what happens, or what the actual records show - PROFITS - can never go down.
They're set in stone, right?
The government budget records show corporations paying taxes..
Corporations hire lobbyists and accountants and lawyers to get out of paying taxes...
BUT, you say, corporations shift the burden of taxes to their customers - in violation of the laws of supply and demand, which say that fewer customers buy at higer prices.. thereby reducing profits, and constraining what corporations can charge for their products.
OR they pass the costs onto employees, by cutting their salaries.. contradicting the conservative argument that corporations compete for quality workers through salary adjustments...
The argument is basically that corporations can raise prices at will, and cut wages at will, but the third variable - PROFITS - is set in stone. No matter what happens, or what the actual records show - PROFITS - can never go down.
They're set in stone, right?
SINthysist
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Wasn't one of the big scandals about Enron or Worldcom, or Global Crossing, I forget which one, but the government paid them at tax time...
Sandia
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SINthysist said:
I haven't been able to figure out corporate accounting. There's a website out there - "Citizens for Tax Justice" - that lists rebates and things to big corporations. The corp.'s own statements don't seem to reflect those rebates or figures, though. I don't know whether one or the other is lying, or if they're just counting differently.
taxes
i made the mistake of keeping a record of all of my taxes between sales, hotel, gas, income, everything. the entire tax load i paid for last year was $0.65 for every $1.00 that i made including $.36 for federal in texas no state tax thank GOD but our gas tax is $.42 cents a gallon sales of 8.25% to 9% and hotel tax of up 22% IT MAKES ME SICK but i pay it all so i don't go to jail
i made the mistake of keeping a record of all of my taxes between sales, hotel, gas, income, everything. the entire tax load i paid for last year was $0.65 for every $1.00 that i made including $.36 for federal in texas no state tax thank GOD but our gas tax is $.42 cents a gallon sales of 8.25% to 9% and hotel tax of up 22% IT MAKES ME SICK but i pay it all so i don't go to jail
SINthysist
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It's like those people have a set of books for every occasion...
RhumbRunner13
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Sandia said:
You would agree then that if I go door to door and collect money from my neighbors to donate to a charity, I am, in effect, a "huge charitable donator"?
Reduce the "non-payment" concept to a small, local, single owner business. Mr. Smith runs a burger stand. He invests $100.000 in a building lease and inventory for a year. He would earn $6000 a year on that money that he will need to recoup. He wants to make $40,000 a year for himself because he knows that he can get a job that pays a little more than that working for someone else.
He figures he can sell 100,000 burgers per year so he anticipates selling his burgers for $1.46 until he realizes that he will pay nearly $11,000 yr. in FICA and income taxes, so he sells his burgers for $1.55. Who is paying the tax? Who is collecting tax for the government?
Rhumb
Sam1
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SINthysist said:
You only need three sets of books. One that shows business up for purposes of selling out or cashing in the stock options. A second which shows business down for the tax man. And the third which tells the truth so you know where you are at. But do not get them confused!
