Is Vetteman still waving that tattered "there's no need to panic" flag?

Le Jacquelope

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That's one thing about them so-called ex military wannabe types: they can never admit to being wrong...

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080307/wall_street.html?printer=1

AP
Stocks Tumble Following Jobs Report
Friday March 7, 6:28 pm ET
By Tim Paradis, AP Business Writer
Stocks Fall Sharply After Weaker-Than-Expected Jobs Report; Fed Moves to Ease Credit Concerns

NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street ended a dreadful week with another big loss Friday after the government surprised investors with a report that employers eliminated 63,000 jobs last month. The news compounded fears that the U.S. economy, already hampered by an unrelenting credit crisis, is succumbing to recession.

The Dow Jones industrial average fell 146 points, bringing its two-day slide to 370. This week's declines in the three major stock indexes to their lowest settlements since 2006 came despite the Federal Reserve's announcement that it would take steps to aid the credit markets.

The Labor Department's report that employers cut jobs by 63,000 last month -- the most since March 2003 -- unnerved investors worried about the health of the economy and who had been expecting a 25,000 gain in jobs. While the unemployment rate fell to 4.8 percent, the decline reflects people leaving the labor force.

The payroll numbers arrived minutes after the Federal Reserve announced it would take fresh steps to ease credit troubles, including boosting the amount of money it will auction to banks.

The central bank said it will increase the size of its March 10 and 24 auctions to banks to $50 billion each. The auctions had been slated for $30 billion apiece and Fed officials said subsequent auctions could be bigger if need be. The Fed also said that it would begin a series of repurchase transactions expected to reach $100 billion.

Craig Peckham, an equity trading strategist at Jefferies & Co., said besides the weak job figures, investors were worried about an apparent lack of effectiveness of the Fed's campaign.

"There is a growing sense that the Fed is trying to pull out all the stops and use all the tools they have but with little net effect," he said. "It just doesn't appear to be the quick-fix that investors had been hoping for. What we've seen is people continuing to press very bearish bets."

The Dow fell 146.70, or 1.22 percent, to 11,893.69. On Thursday, the Dow's 214-point drop came on resurgent concerns about the health of the credit markets. The index has not closed below 11,900 since October 2006, but on Jan. 22 dropped during intraday trading to 11,634.82.

Broader stock indicators also declined. The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell 10.97, or 0.84 percent, to 1,293.37 -- its lowest settlement since August 2006.

The Nasdaq composite index fell 8.01, or 0.36 percent, to 2,212.49, the lowest the tech-dominated index has finished since September 2006.

Bond prices jumped as investors sought defensive positions amid concerns about the economy. The yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note, which moves opposite its price, fell to 3.54 percent from 3.59 percent late Thursday.

It's been a rough week for Wall Street -- the Dow fell 3.04 percent, the S&P fell 2.80 percent and the Nasdaq fell 2.60 percent.

The market had been eager for a read on the jobs picture. While unemployment remains low by historical standards the increase in unemployment stirred concern among investors worried that it will result in a consumer slowdown. The well-being of the consumer, whose spending accounts for more than two-thirds of economic activity, is key to investors' hopes of avoiding more economic pain amid the ongoing pullback in home values and credit troubles.

Paul Nolte, director of investments at Hinsdale Associates, said the job losses in February weren't surprising.

"The trend for the last year and a half has been either job losses or very small gains. That is what you would expect in a contracting economy and we think the economy has been in a recession for two or three months," he said.

The employment figures came a day after concerns about home foreclosures and credit woes rippled across Wall Street.

The start of the week had been relatively quiet. While investors chewed over a slew of economic data, the major indexes didn't end the first three sessions of the week with huge changes. While the closing numbers belied some of the volatility, Wall Street had to contend with in the early part of the week, investors' indecision turned to fear Thursday when credit concerns took on new life.

The week also saw the dollar continue to drop, helping push several commodities to record highs. Many commodities are traded in dollars and so a weak greenback can make their prices rise. Gold, often regarded as a defensive investment, surged to near the psychological benchmark of $1,000 an ounce.

The Fed's plans announced Friday seemed to shore up investor confidence early in the session -- briefly sending stocks higher -- but failed to quell Wall Street's nervousness about the economy.

Steven Lehman, manager of Federated's Market Opportunity Fund, was doubtful of the effectiveness of the Fed's efforts.

"There is a profound lack of understanding of markets and economies, and there is still persistent lingering faith that the authorities effectively have a magic wand they can wave to make everything fine," Lehman said. "Economies and markets do go down -- particularly after a multi-decade credit boom."

The dollar hit a fresh record low against the euro following release of the payroll numbers, while gold prices fell.

Light, sweet crude slipped 32 cents to close at $105.15 per barrel on New York Mercantile Exchange, but only after briefly surpassing $106.

The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies fell 2.67, or 0.40 percent, to 660.11.

Declining issues outnumbered advancers by about 5 to 3 on the New York Stock Exchange. Consolidated volume came to 4.44 billion shares, up from 4.18 billion on Thursday.

Overseas, Japan's Nikkei stock average closed down 3.27 percent after Wall Street's decline. Britain's FTSE 100 closed down 1.15 percent, Germany's DAX index lost 1.17 percent, and France's CAC-40 slid 1.26 percent.

The Dow Jones industrial average ended the week down 372.70, or 3.04 percent, at 11,893.69. The Standard & Poor's 500 index finished down 37.26, or 2.80 percent, at 1,293.37. The Nasdaq composite index ended the week down 58.99, or 2.60 percent, at 2,212.49.

The Russell 2000 index finished the week down 26.07, or 3.80 percent, at 660.11.

The Dow Jones Wilshire 5000 Composite Index -- a free-float weighted index that measures 5,000 U.S. based companies -- ended Friday at 13,052.41, down 403.55 points, or 3.00 percent, for the week. A year ago, the index was at 14,271.61.

New York Stock Exchange: http://www.nyse.com

Nasdaq Stock Market: http://www.nasdaq.com
 
Not familiar with the prior discussion you're talking about, but panicking is ALWAYS a stupid thing to do.
 
I blame the current economic woes on the Democratic primaries and caucuses.

As the Clinton and Obama get closer to a nomination the economy takes a slide.
 
You're talking to a guy who panics if a bird flies to close to his head.

;)

But in terms of his topic, what would panic accomplish? The market is at an all time low, selling would be the dumbest move imaginable. What else would panic compel someone to do, with respect to the topic here?
In this context, then absolutely NO, there is no reason to panic, either stay calm and stay put or start buying.
 
;)

But in terms of his topic, what would panic accomplish? The market is at an all time low, selling would be the dumbest move imaginable. What else would panic compel someone to do, with respect to the topic here?
In this context, then absolutely NO, there is no reason to panic, either stay calm and stay put or start buying.

I'm still buying, eventually the market will recover and I'll reap the rewards of buying in at the lower prices. I just don't try to compare the worth of my portfolio now to what it was a year ago. Sure I've lost a little money, but things will be looking up before I'm ready to retire.

Panic selling now is a mistake. For someone who claims to be in banking Le Jackass knows surprisingly little about money and the market.

This isn't my first economic downturn, the market will recover, it always does. Panic only leads to stupid fuckers taking swan dives off of high rise buildings.
 
;)

But in terms of his topic, what would panic accomplish? The market is at an all time low, selling would be the dumbest move imaginable. What else would panic compel someone to do, with respect to the topic here?
In this context, then absolutely NO, there is no reason to panic, either stay calm and stay put or start buying.

If Vetteman doesn't panic, LT can call him stupid. If he does panic, LT can call him a coward.
 
;)

But in terms of his topic, what would panic accomplish? The market is at an all time low, selling would be the dumbest move imaginable. What else would panic compel someone to do, with respect to the topic here?
In this context, then absolutely NO, there is no reason to panic, either stay calm and stay put or start buying.
Queersetti is a pathetic attention whore troll, ignore him.

The panic is already afoot. You have banks in trouble (Northern Rock, anyone?), credit companies facing a huge surge in late payments, general contractors suffering a great species die-off, the job market taking huge hits, and consumers who are spending less.

The fact that the market is dwindling away like this - as you said - means that the panic is already happening.

It's happening at the consumer level.
It's happening at the employer level.

We're going into a recession.

The issue is, how do we stop the existing panic from spreading?
 
You're talking to a guy who panics if a bird flies to close to his head.

Funny, but isn't that counterintuitive, i.e wouldn't one have to not be SHORT in order to panic about a bird being close to their head?
 
Queersetti is a pathetic attention whore troll, ignore him.

The panic is already afoot. You have banks in trouble (Northern Rock, anyone?), credit companies facing a huge surge in late payments, general contractors suffering a great species die-off, the job market taking huge hits, and consumers who are spending less.

The fact that the market is dwindling away like this - as you said - means that the panic is already happening.

It's happening at the consumer level.
It's happening at the employer level.

We're going into a recession.

The issue is, how do we stop the existing panic from spreading?

Buy real estate in coastal Maine in the early 90s.

Oops, too late for some people.
 
Queersetti is a pathetic attention whore troll, ignore him.

The panic is already afoot. You have banks in trouble (Northern Rock, anyone?), credit companies facing a huge surge in late payments, general contractors suffering a great species die-off, the job market taking huge hits, and consumers who are spending less.

The fact that the market is dwindling away like this - as you said - means that the panic is already happening.

It's happening at the consumer level.
It's happening at the employer level.

We're going into a recession.

The issue is, how do we stop the existing panic from spreading?

How do you stop people from doing anything? All you can do is control your own actions. Taking your money out is stupid at this time. People are afraid because they have a mortgage to pay so they don't invest, but if you're already in the market, just stay put, or stay put and buy if you can, but it's too late to get out.
 
I'm still buying, eventually the market will recover and I'll reap the rewards of buying in at the lower prices. I just don't try to compare the worth of my portfolio now to what it was a year ago.
In fact, is it not fair to say that buying on the downturns is even more important for someone (like me) who bought in at a higher price so that at least a portion of my portfolio begins recovery sooner?

If I bought a stock at $20 and it falls to $13, I am going to be a lot happier when the recovery comes if I had bought more of that same stock at $15 than if I had to sit around biting my nails hoping it gets all the way back to $20.
 
How do you stop people from doing anything? All you can do is control your own actions. Taking your money out is stupid at this time. People are afraid because they have a mortgage to pay so they don't invest, but if you're already in the market, just stay put, or stay put and buy if you can, but it's too late to get out.
Great advice during normal downturns, but there's at least one problem you might not have seen yet:

http://www.ketknbc.com/news/local/15844962.html

401(k) hardship withdrawals. This is the term they use for people selling off some of their 401(k)'s to make ends meet. This is going up right now.

This is what is really hitting the stock market. Most analysts are completely unaware of how deep THIS rabbit hole goes, because most of the damage being done to the stock market isn't actually 401(k) withdrawals (a) (duh!). But what is going on, is very much related. You have tons of consumers out there with stock portfolios who are selling to make ends meet (b), not because of lack of confidence in the market. Whether it's in your 401(k) or your day trading portfolio, selling off stocks to make ends meet is selling off stocks to make ends meet, and phenomenon (b) is happening a LOT.

I'd call that a panic that is already happening, and it is being fueled by people trying to pay bills.


And very soon here, baby boomers will be selling their 401k's and IRAs off to fund their retirement - what with elderly health care costs going through the roof, for starters. That's going to hit us much harder than the social security monster. Granted, the retiree crisis is unrelated to this subprime mess, but the two storms look like they will overlap, and God help us if they do.
 
In fact, is it not fair to say that buying on the downturns is even more important for someone (like me) who bought in at a higher price so that at least a portion of my portfolio begins recovery sooner?

If I bought a stock at $20 and it falls to $13, I am going to be a lot happier when the recovery comes if I had bought more of that same stock at $15 than if I had to sit around biting my nails hoping it gets all the way back to $20.

If you have the money to invest during a downturn, sure.

I'm still pouring as much as legally allowed into my IRA, and a portion of that is matched by my employer. I have a LONG time to go before I need to worry about retirement, I'm not worried at all.
 
Great advice during normal downturns, but there's at least one problem you might not have seen yet:

http://www.ketknbc.com/news/local/15844962.html

401(k) hardship withdrawals. This is the term they use for people selling off some of their 401(k)'s to make ends meet. This is going up right now.

This is what is really hitting the stock market. Most analysts are completely unaware of how deep THIS rabbit hole goes, because most of the damage being done to the stock market isn't actually 401(k) withdrawals (a) (duh!). But what is going on, is very much related. You have tons of consumers out there with stock portfolios who are selling to make ends meet (b), not because of lack of confidence in the market. Whether it's in your 401(k) or your day trading portfolio, selling off stocks to make ends meet is selling off stocks to make ends meet, and phenomenon (b) is happening a LOT.

I'd call that a panic that is already happening, and it is being fueled by people trying to pay bills.


And very soon here, baby boomers will be selling their 401k's and IRAs off to fund their retirement - what with elderly health care costs going through the roof, for starters. That's going to hit us much harder than the social security monster. Granted, the retiree crisis is unrelated to this subprime mess, but the two storms look like they will overlap, and God help us if they do.

So what will YOU do?
 
So what will YOU do?
We're putting our money to good use right now to become more self sufficient.

We're debt free. Our property is paid for. We're increasing our solar panel coverage in the area. We WILL sell our hybrid SUVs and cars for pure electric cars when they come back out. We have a garden we're working on here. We're friends with our neighbors and the guy down the road with the biodiesel-powered generator.

If the economy doesn't fall apart, we'll be doing fine regardless.

My only regret is that I sold my investment in gold back when it was worth ~$600. (I bought in during the low $300's.)
 
We're putting our money to good use right now to become more self sufficient.

We're debt free. Our property is paid for. We're increasing our solar panel coverage in the area. We WILL sell our hybrid SUVs and cars for pure electric cars when they come back out. We have a garden we're working on here. We're friends with our neighbors and the guy down the road with the biodiesel-powered generator.

If the economy doesn't fall apart, we'll be doing fine regardless.

My only regret is that I sold my investment in gold back when it was worth ~$600. (I bought in during the low $300's.)

So you're preparing for the end of the world? Got a shelter?
 
So you're preparing for the end of the world? Got a shelter?
Not the end of the world... just a temporary economic collapse.

If it doesn't happen, then we still have the advantage of super cheap electricity, food that doesn't come from the sewers of China, and a way to get around that doesn't depend on funding Osama Bin Laden. (Did you know that there were long gasoline lines and shortages in the Red States a few years ago - even when there were no gasoline price controls?)
 
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