Is this the porn lesbians have been waiting for?

[Roxanne Appleby]

I have nervously shared the following with a few of my new Lit friends recently, and no one has been offended or thought I was a creep, so I am going to share with all.

Presumably you are a "sex positive" personality, and you probably like to read some written porn/erotica, or else you would not be here. Therefore you also may not be averse to a little of the visual kind of porn/erotica. I discovered recently something in that vein that I think is wonderful.

I live a pretty "whitebread" life so maybe in some circles this is common knowledge and the reaction will be "Duh! Everyone knows that," but have you ever seen the very erotic lesbian porn produced by Girlfriends Films? Most visual porn makes me feel kind of icky and exploitative, but these make me feel like, were I one of the women on the screen, I would be proud to have created something beautiful.

Not that they aren't anything less than totally explicit porn, but in almost all their DVDs you just know you are watching nothing less than two women genuinely enjoy sensuous and passionate sex. There is tons of kissing throughout. While attractive, some of the women are almost plain-looking rather than porn-star "perfect" (which I often find gross), and this makes me like them even more. Their ages range from barely legal to 40-something and maybe even a bit older in some cases. (Some will be disappointed that none are "butch" types, however.)

I have had some contact with the studio's spokeswoman*, who shared the following:

"As you may have noticed, we don't stop our scenes once the sex part gets underway. The women are totally on their own and the success of a scene is up to them. We strive for reality and don't want to interrupt their focus. This lack of direction results in an occasional 'oops!' but does let the girls do what they enjoy and, in nearly all cases, have real orgasms.

"Before we make a scene our director and the girls discuss what sexual activities they enjoy most and what they dislike. Afterwards the girls often remark that they forgot anyone was in the room - we love hearing that! We use only women who are bi-sexual or lesbian. (A few others have snuck in under the tent flap but you don't see them a second time.)"

Reviews of Girlfriend's signature series "Women Seeking Women" can be found at Lezlovevideo.com, specifically http://www.lezlovevideo.com/search/search.asp?mscssid=EA1EDEE8F0F9432789A30D72832A3BF7. (Lezlove also sells these DVDs, and is itself a worthy enterprise.)

As I say, I find these wonderfully erotic and just can't resist sharing. (No, I don't work for Girlfriend's or have any arrangement with them other than I want to see them do well.)

Sincerely,
Roxanne

*I wrote to share with them the fact that the somewhat-predatory but essentially virtuous main character in one of my stories series meets young women through her role as the "angel-investor" in "Lez! Productions," a fictional studio producing high quality lesbian films very similar to the real "Girlfriend's Films."

 

[Toilette]

Yes, this site seems near-perfect... especially the 'vintage'-area. -Have been scoping-for the early-to-mid-60's Euro-underground stuff.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

Presumably you are a "sex positive" personality, and you probably like to read some written porn/erotica, or else you would not be here. Therefore you also may not be averse to a little of the visual kind of porn/erotica. I discovered recently something in that vein that I think is wonderful.

Thank you Roxanne - will investigate soonest..

Try the "pink velvet" series by Viv Thomas (male director, yes i know it puts many off, but i can say with confidence that he is a lesbian reincarnated. His wife assists in directing many of the F/F scenes... very erotic, very sensual and very very hot. The girls are truely breathtaking. Pink velvet 3 is a must. Also try "Butterfly" by the same director... the last scene is possibly the hottest tribading scene ever produced... (i remember you posting on my thread )

Happy porning

 

[BitterIchor]

I have seen both Pink Velvet (I think it was the third one) and Women Seeking Women 17. And well, porn is porn. People without schooling in acting who has sex with each other in front of a camera because it is "their job". The basic concept is flawed, so it doesn't really matter how much tasteful windowdressing is applied.

(Disclaimer: Please note that this is just my opinion. There's no need for anyone to get offended.)

 

[Nirvanadragones]

I have seen both Pink Velvet (I think it was the third one) and Women Seeking Women 17. And well, porn is porn. People without schooling in acting who has sex with each other in front of a camera because it is "their job". The basic concept is flawed, so it doesn't really matter how much tasteful windowdressing is applied.

(Disclaimer: Please note that this is just my opinion. There's no need for anyone to get offended.)

I am just a little curious... in your subjective experience, what/ how would the concept of erotica have to be in order to be "non-flawed?

 

[BitterIchor]

I am just a little curious... in your subjective experience, what/ how would the concept of erotica have to be in order to be "non-flawed?

Erotica isn't flawed. But a majority of all porn movies are. To me, porn is unable to convey all the essential qualities of sex. Mostly because it is painfully obvious that the women involved are probably straight and doing it for the money. Either that or they're pornsexual and would fuck anyone or anything if he/she/it is in front of a camera. Because of this, the sex has a purely physical and carnal tone and none of the other equally important parts. The people involved are never talented enough to simulate those missing parts, either through acting or competent screen- or scriptwriting.

 

[neonflux]

yes yes yes

real women having sex with real women for real women doing nothing for the benefit of the male gaze...

alot of it produced in the U.S., where you can also find real butches and "ample" women with more than a little curve

try good vibrations - lgbt video page:

http://www.goodvibes.com/ItemList--...xual,-Transgender-Sex-Videos--m-07_24_55.html

don't work for good vibrations, although in the past 2 months, have spent a lot of time there, LOL

i have a friend who produces ftm, queer-oriented porn (also directs documentaries) - i do the graphics for him (posters, box covers). his philosophy is similar as that of the women who own "girlfriends films" - allow the actors to enjoy each other and themselves, to help devise plots, to only be with others with whom they want to be. he uses men and women who definitely look real, and sometimes, in some scenes, stars don't even cum but still enjoy themselves - won't put up link to his site unless asked because don't want to be accused of "purveying"

bittorichor, have question...
why do you assume it's exploitive or that people are ONLY doing it because it's their job? just knowing the people who star in my friend's films, i would say that they are involved because: 1) they legitimately enjoy what they're doing and each other; 2) they want to support getting out images of FTM people, including sexual ones - genitalia being different and helping to redifine what it means to me male, for instance (e.g., can you be a man and not have a penis); 3) they enjoy sex and want others to do same... his films, btw, have screened at the berlin film fest (among others) as well as MIT and other "major" academic institutions

enjoy all, and thank you, Roxanne, for starting this thread

~ J

 

[BitterIchor]

bittorichor, have question...
why do you assume it's exploitive or that people are ONLY doing it because it's their job? just knowing the people who star in my friend's films, i would say that they are involved because: 1) they legitimately enjoy what they're doing and each other; 2) they want to support getting out images of FTM people, including sexual ones - genitalia being different and helping to redifine what it means to me male, for instance (e.g., can you be a man and not have a penis); 3) they enjoy sex and want others to do same... his films, btw, have screened at the berlin film fest (among others) as well as MIT and other "major" academic institutions

~ J

I'm sure there are arthouse erotic movies that deal with heavy subjects, but those are not the kind of movies that I was referring to or what this thread was about. This thread is about porn flicks.

And I'm sure there are some people who do porn because they like doing it. But I hope you're not naive enough to believe that these people are anything except a significant minority in comparison to the glorified prostitutes of the commercial porn industry.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

This thread is about porn flicks. And I'm sure there are some people who do porn because they like doing it. But I hope you're not naive enough to believe that these people are anything except a significant minority in comparison to the glorified prostitutes of the commercial porn industry.

I'm not that naive, think you are absolutely right, and agree completely with your characterizations of the mainstream porn industry. It is a sad and disgusting business.

But, based on what I see on the screen myself, and what I was told by their spokeswoman, I honestly believe that most of the women in Girlfriends films do belong to that "significant minority" you note.

I'm guessing, but I think that most of them just have a large exhibitionist streak and are living a fantasy when they do this, yet are not "pornsexuals who will fuck anybody." (Probably a good characterization of the mainstream.) There are some exceptions in Girlfriends films, but they are rare.

BTW, the spokeswoman shared other information that gives me reason to believe the rest of what she told me is true - that the women in the films are almost all real lesbians or bi, and not "pornsexuals." Basically, that the enterprise is a small business that imposes monumental workloads on the key individuals, who in some cases have paid a personal price for their dedication to producing excellence.

I hope you understand that I'm not trying to be contentious. Your scorn and contempt for the porn industry are well founded, and because of that "guilty until proven innocent" is a reasonable starting point. As you note though, there may be exceptions to the rule, and if that is the case in this instance we would not want to be unfair.

 

[BitterIchor]

But, based on what I see on the screen myself, and what I was told by their spokeswoman, I honestly believe that most of the women in Girlfriends films do belong to that "significant minority" you note.

I'm guessing, but I think that most of them just have a large exhibitionist streak and are living a fantasy when they do this, yet are not "pornsexuals who will fuck anybody." (Probably a good characterization of the mainstream.) There are some exceptions in Girlfriends films, but they are rare.

BTW, the spokeswoman shared other information that gives me reason to believe the rest of what she told me is true - that the women in the films are almost all real lesbians or bi, and not "pornsexuals." Basically, that the enterprise is a small business that imposes monumental workloads on the key individuals, who in some cases have paid a personal price for their dedication to producing excellence.

It would not be very prudent for a spokesperson for a production company to say anything else than that the stars of their productions are exactly what the audience wants them to be. PR 101. I'm not saying what she said isn't true, but I also believe that if the individuals she mentioned were to be the worst kind of examples that can be found in the porn industry, she would not admit it openly.

 

[Guest]

Hell if it looks good who cares??

 

[neonflux]

the ftm flicks i mentioned...

and those on the good vibrations web site really are hard core porn, designed to arouse, titillate, and dare i say it - even to be masturbated to. that said, they still deviate from standard pornographic portrayals of sexuality and are designed to appeal to a different audience from that which is the primary target for male (gay and straight) porn, which is formulaic, demands extraordinary sexual feats, uses actors who are often plastic to the point of even having had plastic surgery on their genitalia to make it more "acceptable", etc.

re, naivete - would suggest that there is a significant and growing body of feminist/queer porn (am exlucing commercial gay male and so called "she-male fetish" material from this category) that is produced and starred in by people who enjoy it, all of it quite different from what you find in the larger commercial porn industry... which, no, i'm not fooling myself about. however, i think it's equally wrong to classify all porn in one category, and to view all of it as primarily exploitive. this is where I part ways with people like Andrea Dworkin, as much as I appreciate her work...

I'm sure there are arthouse erotic movies that deal with heavy subjects, but those are not the kind of movies that I was referring to or what this thread was about. This thread is about porn flicks.

And I'm sure there are some people who do porn because they like doing it. But I hope you're not naive enough to believe that these people are anything except a significant minority in comparison to the glorified prostitutes of the commercial porn industry.

 

[dizzylia]

Hell if it looks good who cares??

There is that.

 

[TrojanMan77]

question

is there a netflix type place that specializes in girl girl/lesbian films??? me and my gf love that type of xxx

 

[yourfantasy12]

Thanks for telling me that site, I'll check it out.

 

[gagginforit]

They look good. Who the heck would think you're a creep for liking these?

Does the site let you watch the little videos if you sign up, or is that just a con to get you to sign up?

 

[BitterIchor]

Hell if it looks good who cares??

Right, if it looks good, abandon all personal ethics, morality and principles. Hell, that rape I witnessed the other day looked really good, maybe I should go do that too.

 

[DarkAurora]

BitterIchor, I think you are taking this too serious. All Roxanne meant was that this is a better type of porn than your average girl/girl film because it tries to be a little more realistic. Also, doing porn is a hell of a lot better than prostituting for a multitude of reasons that I don't really feel like getting into at the moment.

 

[BitterIchor]

BitterIchor, I think you are taking this too serious. All Roxanne meant was that this is a better type of porn than your average girl/girl film because it tries to be a little more realistic. Also, doing porn is a hell of a lot better than prostituting for a multitude of reasons that I don't really feel like getting into at the moment.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course. And as for the thread itself, I'm afraid I like serious, in-depth discussions and have a hard time not expressing views and opinions that come to mind.

 

[neonflux]

To BitterIchor - am welcoming a serious debate!

I like them too and this IS a serious topic...

Will repeat prior post in response to your response to my response...

Originally Posted by BitterIchor
I'm sure there are arthouse erotic movies that deal with heavy subjects, but those are not the kind of movies that I was referring to or what this thread was about. This thread is about porn flicks.

Neonflux Response:
And those on the good vibrations web site, including those made for the filmmaker for whom I do graphics, really are hard core porn, designed to arouse, titillate, and dare i say it - even to be masturbated to. that said, they still deviate from standard pornographic portrayals of sexuality and are designed to appeal to a different audience from that which is the primary target for male (gay and straight) porn, which is formulaic, demands extraordinary sexual feats, uses actors who are often plastic to the point of even having had plastic surgery on their genitalia to make it more "acceptable", etc.

Originally Posted by BitterIchor:
And I'm sure there are some people who do porn because they like doing it. But I hope you're not naive enough to believe that these people are anything except a significant minority in comparison to the glorified prostitutes of the commercial porn industry.

Response from Neonflux:
Would suggest that there is a significant and growing body of feminist/queer porn (am exlucing commercial gay male and so called "she-male fetish" material from this category) that is produced and starred in by people who enjoy it, all of it quite different from what you find in the larger commercial porn industry... which, no, i'm not fooling myself about. however, i think it's equally wrong to classify all porn in one category, and to view all of it as primarily exploitive. this is where I part ways with people like Andrea Dworkin, as much as I appreciate her work...

I would also add that while many of these films are not yet making their way into the smaller or corporate owned video stores, they have great potential to impact both the porn industry and peoples' understanding of sex/sexuality/sexual desire in the long run...

~ Justine

You are entitled to your opinion, of course. And as for the thread itself, I'm afraid I like serious, in-depth discussions and have a hard time not expressing views and opinions that come to mind.

 

[BitterIchor]

While my issues with porn do partly have a basis in issues of principles and such, much of my aversion simply comes from that I don't enjoy watching porn. Maybe it's my somewhat prudish nature that does it, or that I see sex as a private matter and that visual representations of it (and the casual, almost careless nature of most pornographic sex) sort of rubs my face in it. Written erotica can be clever, subtle and wrapped in an intriguing story. Pornographic films doesn't have any other goal than to display sex of various kinds. Sure, they sometimes try to involve the viewer in some pitiful excuse of a backdrop, but it never succeeds since the people playing the parts in the films aren't even trying to act (and wouldn't succeed if they would try) and the directors and producers are at best amateurish.

As for the feminist/queer porn you were talking about, I have a hard time imagining it having any significant impact. Because if it's not commercially driven, it won't have the economic force to reach a large audience. And if it IS commercially driven, well...if that's the case, then it's just a different flavour of the porn I've described earlier in the thread,

Maybe my standards are unrealistically high, I don't know. But they are what they are.

 

[Guest]

Right, if it looks good, abandon all personal ethics, morality and principles. Hell, that rape I witnessed the other day looked really good, maybe I should go do that too.

That's not what I meant. We were not talking about rape, we were talking about pornography.

Because i enjoy watching CSI miami on the telly does not mean i want to be one of them. God that is the last thing on my mind when i go to work in the mornings. It's entertaining thats it. And the actors in CSI also "do it for the money" Is that morally wrong too?

 

[Samuelx]

You should watch San Francisco Lesbians # 1-9. They're good. Best lesbian porn series ever, featuring real lesbians who look like real women. Some are tall, others are short. Some are chubby, others are skinny. All of them are hot for woman-flesh and marvelous to watch.

 

[Lust Engine]

You should watch San Francisco Lesbians # 1-9. They're good. Best lesbian porn series ever, featuring real lesbians who look like real women. Some are tall, others are short. Some are chubby, others are skinny. All of them are hot for woman-flesh and marvelous to watch.

Hmmm...more wonderful eye candy? I can't wait.

 

[kbate]

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