Is this good?

[Amberchgo]

I have to think the LL is conflicted on this. Lots of high paying jobs. But ... Well, big oil.




The U.S. will remain the world’s biggest oil producer this year after overtaking Saudi Arabia and Russia as extraction of energy from shale rock spurs the nation’s economic recovery, Bank of America Corp. said.

U.S. production of crude oil, along with liquids separated from natural gas, surpassed all other countries this year with daily output exceeding 11 million barrels in the first quarter, the bank said in a report today. The country became the world’s largest natural gas producer in 2010. The International Energy Agency said in June that the U.S. was the biggest producer of oil and natural gas liquids.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...gest-oil-producer-after-overtaking-saudi.html

 

[cowslinger64]

The fallacy is that the left is against big oil or corporations in general. Nothing could be further from the truth. We want companies to make money, just not at the expense of fucking up our environment or fucking the employees... and paying taxes like everyone else does.

I'm not anti-business...I want the company I work for to make money, that's why I show up every day and do my job. The more he makes, the more stable the job is for me and my union brothers.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The fallacy is that the left is against big oil or corporations in general. Nothing could be further from the truth. We want companies to make money, just not at the expense of fucking up our environment or fucking the employees... and paying taxes like everyone else does.

I'm not anti-business...I want the company I work for to make money, that's why I show up every day and do my job. The more he makes, the more stable the job is for me and my union brothers.

Basically.

though I'll admit I would much rather us become the world leader in green energy and start selling tech and actual green energy production to other nations. We know that oil, when all is said and done, is not good for the environment (when we burn it) we also know that lots of things from medicines to plastics are made using oil so perhaps burning it ain't exactly bright.

It's good we're number 1 though, if for no other reason than we do have stricter environmental controls than most countries, and a better government than our competition to be sure.

 

[eyer]

I have to think the LL is conflicted on this.

What a friggin' understatement...

...especially since 30% of the world's greatest oil producer country's output can be attributed to the Republic of Texas.

They say Texas oil production hit rock bottom in 2005 when output shriveled to 1 million barrels per day...

...today, the 2nd largest American oil producing state - North Dakota - is producing 769,000 bpd; Alaska - 3rd highest producer - pumps about 556,000 bpd; CA - #4 - fills about 526,000 bpd, and #5 OK tops off about 262,000 bpd.

Meanwhile, the Texas is pumping out about 2.2 million barrels per day, enough that if it was a separate country, it'd rank as the 14th largest oil producing nation in the world...

...and making energy matters only more insufferable for progressives is the fact that Texas is also America's largest producer of natural gas.

The economics benefits to having so much homegrown energy produced by American workers is virtually incalculable to both the nation and the individual states; Texas itself, eg, currently - still - offers far more jobs opportunities than are being accepted, and these jobs are in every conceivable field that is in any way related to the work being done in the oil and gas fields. Naturally, of course, pay offered to fill these waiting jobs is exactly what a free market dictates, eg, as those who take off work to protest for $15 / hr to flip burgers, those same jobs are wide open in parts of Texas and they can't find the folks who want to earn $15 / hr flipping burgers...

...I realize President Obama gets blamed for virtually everything on this Board, but the oil and natural gas producing booms in Texas should certainly give him a lot of credit, right? I mean, he hasn't signed an executive order to regulate it, right?

So, thank you, Mr. President...

...('cause I sincerely doubt many Texans would enjoy pausing from their hard work to just go to war against you if you did try to mosey in on business that is none of yours).

 

[doowdniw]

And if you owned real property in the Barnett Shale in Texas with the mineral rights still attached, and gas under it, and signed an O & G lease agreement near the top of the market, in say October 2008, you got a hefty signing bonus of $27,500 per acre and retained a 23% royalty. Not a bad deal.

 

[JustaSCOUNDREL]

Here's a list of the top 15 oil exporting nations in 2012, they are listed in order of the amount they export.

Saudi Arabia
Russia
United Arab Emirates
Kuwait
Nigeria
Iraq
Iran
Qatar
Angola
Venezuela
Norway
Canada
Algeria
Kazakhstan
Libya

You should note over half of them do not like us, varying from not at all to not very much.

Every single barrel of oil we produce means many of them do not receive our money to help finance what ever mischief they may be involved in against our interests.

Despite all of the hoopla about oil it ain't going away any time in the near future, think about it 99.9% of every vehicle you see on the road runs on oil or an oil product of some sort.

Only 13% of all electricity in the U.S. comes from renewable sources and over half of that is from hydro. Hydro is not going to increase and the other 6+% will never increase enough to give us 100% from renewable, so it will always have to come from some kind of carbon source until we eventually go to all nuclear.

In my opinion we will not go nuclear until we have experienced several years of rolling brown outs from a lack of fuel to generate electricity. The east coast will be affected in the winters when heat is needed and in the west we'll get them in the summers when we need air conditioning, then and only than will the cry against nuclear energy be reduced enough we will build nuclear generation plants.

 

[Skiddles2014]

obama's fault

 

[Sean Renaud]

Here's a list of the top 15 oil exporting nations in 2012, they are listed in order of the amount they export.

Saudi Arabia
Russia
United Arab Emirates
Kuwait
Nigeria
Iraq
Iran
Qatar
Angola
Venezuela
Norway
Canada
Algeria
Kazakhstan
Libya

You should note over half of them do not like us, varying from not at all to not very much.

Every single barrel of oil we produce means many of them do not receive our money to help finance what ever mischief they may be involved in against our interests.

Despite all of the hoopla about oil it ain't going away any time in the near future, think about it 99.9% of every vehicle you see on the road runs on oil or an oil product of some sort.

Only 13% of all electricity in the U.S. comes from renewable sources and over half of that is from hydro. Hydro is not going to increase and the other 6+% will never increase enough to give us 100% from renewable, so it will always have to come from some kind of carbon source until we eventually go to all nuclear.

In my opinion we will not go nuclear until we have experienced several years of rolling brown outs from a lack of fuel to generate electricity. The east coast will be affected in the winters when heat is needed and in the west we'll get them in the summers when we need air conditioning, then and only than will the cry against nuclear energy be reduced enough we will build nuclear generation plants.

It won't increase enough to give us 100% because people like you don't want it too. There is no real reason why it can't get damn near 100% that way.

And the countries that don't like us don't get a huge amount of money from us not that it matters.

 

[snugglestruggle]

China pollutes the shit out of the environment with all their high sulfur coal fired power plants.

Develop and then sell cheap, efficient, green energy technology? Great idea, China would say fuck you give it to us for free or we will keep going as we are now.

We are all living in a giant snow globe as far as that goes. Until everyone agrees to cut back on pollution it's an exercise in futility.

Fossil fuels are here to stay along with the consequences.

 

[phrodeau]

China pollutes the shit out of the environment with all their high sulfur coal fired power plants.

Develop and then sell cheap, efficient, green energy technology? Great idea, China would say fuck you give it to us for free or we will keep going as we are now.

We are all living in a giant snow globe as far as that goes. Until everyone to cut back on pollution it's an exercise in futility.

Fossil fuels are here to stay along with the consequences.

Why do you think China doesn't care about pollution? They stopped producing leaded gasoline and CFC's.

 

[Sean Renaud]

China pollutes the shit out of the environment with all their high sulfur coal fired power plants.

Develop and then sell cheap, efficient, green energy technology? Great idea, China would say fuck you give it to us for free or we will keep going as we are now.

We are all living in a giant snow globe as far as that goes. Until everyone agrees to cut back on pollution it's an exercise in futility.

Fossil fuels are here to stay along with the consequences.

They seem to be aware of what they are doing and taking steps to fix it if only slowly. Ultimately if what it takes is giving them green tech for free that's better than letting them pollute up the planet. I don't think it would come to that but okay.

 

[snugglestruggle]

They seem to be aware of what they are doing and taking steps to fix it if only slowly. Ultimately if what it takes is giving them green tech for free that's better than letting them pollute up the planet. I don't think it would come to that but okay.

China is not stupid, they know if they drag their feet and make excuses how they don't have the resources etc and cry poverty eventually the goodie two shoes westerners will give them shit for nothing.

Those old, corrupt commie bastards in power don't give a rats ass for the youth of china or the environment. They don't have to drink dirty water or live in ghettos.

They steal every bit of technology they can, infringe on trademarks and don't honor intellectual property rights. So yeah we'd have to give them the technology for free providing they haven't already stolen it.

 

[Sean Renaud]

China is not stupid, they know if they drag their feet and make excuses how they don't have the resources etc and cry poverty eventually the goodie two shoes westerners will give them shit for nothing.

Those old, corrupt commie bastards in power don't give a rats ass for the youth of china or the environment. They don't have to drink dirty water or live in ghettos.

They steal every bit of technology they can, infringe on trademarks and don't honor intellectual property rights. So yeah we'd have to give them the technology for free providing they haven't already stolen it.

There is a difference between not being stupid and not being evil. I agree they aren't stupid but you're accusing them of being evil and I don't think they are evil.

They aren't a whole lot more corrupt than we are in the areas you're talking about and they are getting better.

Ultimately though it won't hurt my feelings one bit if giving them tech is necessary as for them infringing on trademarks and ips that's a problem, but we need to get international standards on that our current laws are riddled with fuck ups that happen mecause of the number of countries we deal with.

 

[snugglestruggle]

There is a difference between not being stupid and not being evil. I agree they aren't stupid but you're accusing them of being evil and I don't think they are evil.

They aren't a whole lot more corrupt than we are in the areas you're talking about and they are getting better.

Ultimately though it won't hurt my feelings one bit if giving them tech is necessary as for them infringing on trademarks and ips that's a problem, but we need to get international standards on that our current laws are riddled with fuck ups that happen mecause of the number of countries we deal with.

I'm not saying they are evil. their leaders like ours are self serving. Back in the 90's when I worked for an R&D company I had the occasion to talk with an engineer from china and his words were basically " Why invent something when you can have it for free", which he said with a grin. It's a cleaver strategy which china has used time and again. The Chinese are a cleaver people if nothing else.

If we want to save the planet we will have to invent the cheap green technology then give it to them and watch them sell it for less than we can. If it stops the pollution it's worth it.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Yes, it is good.



Especially when your foreign policy is basically to destabilize the Middle East in order to let them kill each other, because they cannot help themselves...

 

[phrodeau]

Yes, it is good.



Especially when your foreign policy is basically to destabilize the Middle East in order to let them kill each other, because they cannot help themselves...

Was that Bush's plan then?

 

[Que]

It won't increase enough to give us 100% because people like you don't want it too. There is no real reason why it can't get damn near 100% that way.

And the countries that don't like us don't get a huge amount of money from us not that it matters.

yeah its a big conspiracy.

The amount of actual energy coming from the sun on a cloudless day and hitting any particular square foot of earth is a known amount. Solar cells do not convert that energy into the electrical equivalent. There are efficiency losses.

For the sake of discussion, lets say it never clouds over and magic unicorns develop 100% efficiency solar cells. Lets say we cover all the available farmland with solar panels...probably STILL not 100% of our energy needs.

Stick to writing fantasy.

PS. The ACTUAL noxious pollutants released in the production of solar cells, batteries and tilted-at windmills is ACTUAL pollution. CO2 is not.

Unless you are SCREAMING for nuclear power you are an idiotic dilettante on environmental issues.

 

[Sean Renaud]

yeah its a big conspiracy.

The amount of actual energy coming from the sun on a cloudless day and hitting any particular square foot of earth is a known amount. Solar cells do not convert that energy into the electrical equivalent. There are efficiency losses.

For the sake of discussion, lets say it never clouds over and magic unicorns develop 100% efficiency solar cells. Lets say we cover all the available farmland with solar panels...probably STILL not 100% of our energy needs.

Stick to writing fantasy.

PS. The ACTUAL noxious pollutants released in the production of solar cells and tilted-at windmills is ACTUAL polution. CO2 is not.

Unless you are SCREAMING for nuclear power you are an idiotic dilettante on environmental issues.

It's not a conspiracy. It's out in the open ignorance.

Yeah, the amount of solar energy coming through on any given day is more than enough, if we had anywhere near 100% efficiency (which is close to impossible) we could power the world without doing anything near as radical as your discussing. Those are the simple facts.

Both are all are pollutants and I'd rather a one time thing when we create a green source than constantly spewing it up.

 

[Que]

It's not a conspiracy. It's out in the open ignorance.

Yeah, the amount of solar energy coming through on any given day is more than enough, if we had anywhere near 100% efficiency (which is close to impossible) we could power the world without doing anything near as radical as your discussing. Those are the simple facts.

Both are all are pollutants and I'd rather a one time thing when we create a green source than constantly spewing it up.

"Simple facts?"

Simply incorrect.

There are 40,000 golf courses in the world... obviously we could do without those. If we had 400,000 golf courses and covered every square inch of them, that would be about enough.

And even all that "free" energy would cost FAR more than pumping it of the ground in the mideast, loading it on tankers and shipping it to the US refining it, and burning it.

And then of course never mind that you also lose efficiencies after you generate solar, transmit it on high voltage power-lines and lose more when the electricity is converted back to some kind of kinetic energy to do work.

 

[Sean Renaud]

"Simple facts?"

Simply incorrect.

There are 40,000 golf courses in the world... obviously we could do without those. If we had 400,000 golf courses and covered every square inch of them, that would be about enough.

And you're basing this on. . . .Republican math which is science ignorance.

We get more solar energy annually than our nonrenewables will produce EVER. It's not a matter of the energy not being there it's a matter of it being harnessed and that's for the entire fucking world. I think we can find space for 400,000 golf courses especially since that's not a size. We can also panel roofs with solar which already taking place.

As you say, stick to writing fiction.

 

[Que]

read some facts. Costs matter. Solar panels, dams, and windmills cost a fortune and do NOT last forever.

www.energytrendsinsider.com

There is not "republican math."

There is actual mathematics, and the crap liberals fantasize about which is not math by anyone's definition.

 

[Que]

Energy sources and the ability to convert them into useable forms are some of the most valuable real and intellectual assets in the world.

The idea that there is resistance anywhere to actual viable sources is beyond foolish. Solar and wind would be almost nonexistent if not for the ridiculous level of subsidy.

Breeder reactors produce so little waste, and require so little material to run in the long term it is the only viable energy source we currently have the technology for in 100 years.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yeah I've read that, which isn't actually math but whatever. Even that suggests we can get the majority of our power from renewables in the next thirty five years. Sounds like you and yours are fighting because you want to fuck us.

And yes there is Republican Math, you're using it now but you're not the master. It's okay though query. We'll make an honest man out of you one day.

 

[Amberchgo]

"Simple facts?"

Simply incorrect.

There are 40,000 golf courses in the world... obviously we could do without those. If we had 400,000 golf courses and covered every square inch of them, that would be about enough.

And even all that "free" energy would cost FAR more than pumping it of the ground in the mideast, loading it on tankers and shipping it to the US refining it, and burning it.

And then of course never mind that you also lose efficiencies after you generate solar, transmit it on high voltage power-lines and lose more when the electricity is converted back to some kind of kinetic energy to do work.

There are "facts" and there are "Sean facts."

When you ask for links to his "facts" they never appear. You're supposed to "know" he's so smart and we can't challenge him.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Energy sources and the ability to convert them into useable forms are some of the most valuable real and intellectual assets in the world.

The idea that there is resistance anywhere to actual viable sources is beyond foolish. Solar and wind would be almost nonexistent if not for the ridiculous level of subsidy.

Breeder reactors produce so little waste, and require so little material to run in the long term it is the only viable energy source we currently have the technology for in 100 years.

Only if it was going to make masses of money which it very well may not, and the cost is largely immaterial.

The resistance is plan to see, you're it. Why you're it I can' fathom but it's right there query.

I'm big on breeder reactors but they are no tthe only viable energy source with solar, wind, and tidal out there. They are the only ones you want for whatever reason.

There are "facts" and there are "Sean facts."

When you ask for links to his "facts" they never appear. You're supposed to "know" he's so smart and we can't challenge him.

They almost always appear and fast than I can respond because nothing I say isn't common knowledge. If it's something less commonly understood than the sky is blue I'm always happy to fetch up a source for you. If I forgot one feel free to point it out.