Is there any on the right left here that don’t peddle in conspiracies?

[RobDownSouth]

No model developed "for the greater good" developed by the left elevating the collective over the individual can function if one can "do whatever you want."

The government forces Americans to drive on the right hand side of the road for the "greater good". Does this negatively impact your freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom?

 

[DMBFFF]

No model developed "for the greater good" developed by the left elevating the collective over the individual can function if one can "do whatever you want."

mostly agree, but the collective has a number of names—or misnomers at least: "the collective," "society," "the nation," "morality," "God," "decency," "the dictatorship of the proletariat," "the race," "America," "Canada," "The West," et al.

The government forces Americans to drive on the right hand side of the road for the "greater good". Does this negatively impact your freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom?

It does, but it's justified on the basis of a very good benefits-to-costs ratio. The law likely came from custom, and isn't always adhered to outside of highways and arterial roads.

https://youtu.be/KrPOKNU5Ds4?t=19
(good decades-old southern Ontario punk)

 

[FGB]

Why?

Who 'a asking?

 

[LLCox]

All of the Trump and Trumpster conspiracy theories get crushed one by one. It's hilarious.

Trumps hand picked FBI Director.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/12/10/21004499/trump-christopher-wray-ig-report

 

[BotanyBoy]

They aren't (much) more anti-freedom.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/849342885409558529/evdDTLGI_400x400.jpg

Anyone who's studied history past the 5th grade level knows that's not true and both can go totalitarian with their authority and control.

The government forces Americans to drive on the right hand side of the road for the "greater good". Does this negatively impact your freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom?

No, which is why it's a non-controversy Rob.

Why don't you try picking a relevant issues of government force like taking my shit to provide a more equal outcome for people like you, because you FEEL it's not fair you have to take care of your own shit.

 

[DMBFFF]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/849342885409558529/evdDTLGI_400x400.jpg

Anyone who's studied history past the 5th grade level knows that's not true and both can go totalitarian with their authority and control.

Huh?

It's likely a bit harder when one's polar opposite competes.




(for source)
http://www.musicalcriticism.com/opera/met-nixon-1-0211.shtml

http://www.musicalcriticism.com/opera/met-nixon-1.jpg

something I just pulled out of the interwebs:
https://youtu.be/AoLk7VneYLY?t=479




Btw, it didn't start with the commies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Lushan_Rebellion

Censuses taken in the half-century before the rebellion show a gradual increase in population, with the last census undertaken before the rebellion, in 755, recording a population of 52,919,309 in 8,914,709 taxpaying households. However, a census taken in 764, the year following the end of the rebellion, recorded only 16,900,000 in 2,900,000 households.

(for sources and bigger pics)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China.svg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China.svg/640px-Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China.svg.png
Competition is often good.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Huh?

What part aren't you understanding?

You think the left is more free?

They aren't (much) more anti-freedom.

Anyone who's studied history past the 5th grade level knows that's not true and both can go totalitarian with their authority and control.

 

[DMBFFF]

What part aren't you understanding?

Anyone who's studied history past the 5th grade level knows that's not true

I took it that you were disagreeing with my comment that the left aren't much more anti-freedom than the right. If so, I'd disagree but I understand that given polarization, people on either side would insist that the other side is more anti-freedom.

but then,

and both can go totalitarian with their authority and control.

Which I agree, particularly if unchecked, but it paradoxically at least concurs with that earlier position of mine that right and left each can be a serious threat to freedom. One might haggle quantity, but I tend to be suspicious of both.

Which one of the statements is it?

I also reiterate that while right and left are punching it out, while such might not be as good as people sensibly thinking things out, that at least it allows wiggle room for those wanting freedom to make some for themselves.

Take Poland—and forgive me if my history is off. Germans invade Poland, and try to Germanize the place. Then the Russians move in and destroy all German influences, and impose Russian ones. In time they withdraw and Germans take over. In the meantime, while German and Russian cultural assimmilationlists punch it out, Polish culture becomes the default.

It might even be possible that the economic successes of Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, and Hong Kong might partially be the result of Communist challenges. This is not to say it justifies Communism: it doesn't. Nonetheless, had not the reformists in those countries acted, the Communists might have gained more. In turn, Communist countries likely benefited. It was likely why Deng dispensed with much of Mao's social engineering and got practical; or Kim running to China's arms when the USSR collapsed—the same arms that might be giving him a few smacks on his grandson's head. It might be why Palestinians, at least outside of Palestine, have an industriousness comparable to Jews, or why al Jazeera, for whatever its faults, exist; why Iranian Christians can drink communal wine, or the superficial-at-least reforms in Saudi Arabia. I don't know. At this I'm just pondering.

It even has positive effects in Canada-US relations. Canada had Prohibition—I think—in the 1910s, while US had it in the 1920s. US concludes a terrible civil war in 1865: two years later, the 4 Canadian colonies unite lest they get invaded—who knows what those Yanks are capable of. Quebec imposes French-only laws, and later no-hijabs for government workers, to the benefit of Toronto and Vancouver. Toronto City Council fucks around, while Brampton, Mississauga, and Hamilton grow.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Anyone who's studied history past the 5th grade level knows that's not true

I took it that you were disagreeing with my comment that the left aren't much more anti-freedom than the right.

As far as proliferation goes, I totally disagree.

The totalitarian left has enslaved, brutalized and murdered SIGNIFICANTLY more people over much larger periods of time.

But as far as how anti-freedom goes, we both agreed, they both can get just as totalitarian and authoritarian.

I also reiterate that while right and left are punching it out, while such might not be as good as people sensibly thinking things out, that at least it allows wiggle room for those wanting freedom to make some for themselves.

I see what you're saying, and agree.