Is there a Mac geek in the house?

[shereads]

Question: Is it true that I mess up my hard drive by opening documents directly from the desktop?

("Mess up" is a layperson's term meaning "screw up" or "make it get all wierd.")

I hadn't had this shiny new machine more than a week before it started slowing down and having difficulties at start-up. I know several people with the same set-up (MacBook Pro running OS X 10.4.7) and none of them has this problem.

I got in the habit years ago of storing my Word documents in folders on the desktop instead of in 'Documents,' the default destination for saves. Our IT people always warned the graphic artists not to open their work from the desktop; I never learned why, and didn't think it mattered as long as I was only using Word. When my company-owned Macs suffered from slow start-up or worsening performance, I'd run Norton Utilities; if there was no improvement, I'd call IT and they'd conduct some secret ritual to clean up the hard drive.

Now it's my machine, my problem - and Norton Utilities isn't compatible with the new operating system. What to do?

 

[AlecBond]

abcde

 

[rgraham666]

Never done that she. Always used 'Documents' myself.

Don't see why it should though.

You mention the slowing only at start up. Perhaps storing your docs on the desktop forces the Mac to do some extra work on startup?

Try here. I've always found help when I need it at this forum.

 

[Weird Harold]

LIkewise, many people have been told to defragment their hard-disks to make them faster. This is true - to a very extreme extent.

A defragmentation, if you will, simply pushes all the information back towards the center, getting rid of the gap. This may save you a nano-nano-second for every 100 files your computer goes after.

I don't know how OSX organizes files, but your explanation of disk fragmentation is totally wrong for DOS/Windows and my limited, outdated, experience with, UNIX style file systems.

Fragmentation occurs when a file is larger than one disk sector and is NOT stored on sequential disk sectors. Fragmentation causes the drive head to reposition to read each piece of the file -- which takes longer than actually reading a sector -- so that it can take as much as three times as long to read a fragmented file as it does to read the same file from sequential disk sectors.

As to the original problem, I think the slowdown in boot-up is likely caused by the need to draw the icons on the desktop -- the more files there are on the desktop the more times the system has to look up an icon, read it from the disk, and display it on the screen. Each icon only adds a second or two to the boot-up process, but every second can seem like eternity when you're waiting for your computer to decide it's ready to go to work.

 

[shereads]

There are only 2 extra icons on the desktop, Harold: folders labeled 'Personal' and 'Office.'

Alex, I rarely run more than one or two things at once. I work mostly in
Word and usually don't have my browser on while I'm working. I turn it on to check my email when I remember, and turn it off when I'm done so I won't be tempted to play. It's not like I'm editing a feature-length film here.

And just at look at this puppy! It has 2 cores, for chrissake. Whatever cores are.

CPU Type: Intel Core Duo
Number Of Cores: 2
CPU Speed: 2 GHz
L2 Cache (shared): 2 MB
Memory: 1 GB
Bus Speed: 667 MHz


So why did it go all slow and wierd after only a week out of the showroom? Is there something I can do to optimize performance?

 

[Oblimo]

Is there something I can do to optimize performance?

Don't shut it down at night. (Or so I am told; I am not a Mac geek, but would really like to be one). OSX schedules maintenance for the wee hours of the morning.

 

[AlecBond]

abcde

 

[Weird Harold]

Correct, which is why I used the example of "pushing things back together" so-to-say.

If you know computers, the explanation will not make sense, but for people who are just trying to figure out WTF someone attempted to explain to them, that is the easiest explanation.

The explanation I use -- whenpressed to resort to an analogy -- is a fragmented file is like tht thousand page report you dropped and got all of the pages out of order -- defragmenting is putting the pages back in sequence.

There are only 2 extra icons on the desktop, Harold: folders labeled 'Personal' and 'Office.'

Then keeping extra icons on the desktop is not YOUR problem.

Alex, I rarely run more than one or two things at once. I work mostly in Word and usually don't have my browser on while I'm working. I turn it on to check my email when I remember, and turn it off when I'm done so I won't be tempted to play. It's not like I'm editing a feature-length film here.

You run more things at once than you think you do -- but i'm not familiar with the kinds of things a MAC runs in the background at startup.

Some of the things I've had cause boot-up delays in the past:

A printer driver that caused a delay while it looked for the printer if the printer wasn't turned on before the computer.

A communications monitor utility that waited for a response from the modem before installing -- when the modem went bad, the utility took forever to give up and pass control to the next program in the startup list; without ever notifying me that it didn't load.

A file system check utility that worked fine up to a few hundred files, but began to choke when I accumulated a few thousand files.

A virus checker that had a similar problem with getting progressively slower as the umber of files to check increased. (like all of the files stored in your internet cache)

 

[Lisa Denton]

There are only 2 extra icons on the desktop, Harold: folders labeled 'Personal' and 'Office.'

Alex, I rarely run more than one or two things at once. I work mostly in
Word and usually don't have my browser on while I'm working. I turn it on to check my email when I remember, and turn it off when I'm done so I won't be tempted to play. It's not like I'm editing a feature-length film here.

And just at look at this puppy! It has 2 cores, for chrissake. Whatever cores are.

CPU Type: Intel Core Duo
Number Of Cores: 2
CPU Speed: 2 GHz
L2 Cache (shared): 2 MB
Memory: 1 GB
Bus Speed: 667 MHz


So why did it go all slow and wierd after only a week out of the showroom? Is there something I can do to optimize performance?

Sweety I don't know jack about mac, but your last sentence indicates a small problem. It looks like a decent system and no system is going to be affected by where you open a folder from. Only older slower hardware with older slower software would have a noticable delay opening more icons on the desktop.

I have prolly over a hundred icons, I often run two browsers Internet Explorer and Avant simultaneously, upload and download simultaneously, and run lots of other programs all at the same time. Sometimes downloading and running certain cpu intensive programs will slow things down a little, but not much.

This thing has to have similar tools I would think.

Look at your start up programs to see what runs at start up.

Then try:
Deleting all cookies and temp program files.
Clean disc -- dump it all.
Defrag.
Reboot.

Repeat if needed.

I would think this lil thing just hiccupped or spit up a fragmented file, and with a lilttle tweaking it will be back to normal.

But again, I don't know jack about mac.

 

[3113]

Question: Is it true that I mess up my hard drive by opening documents directly from the desktop?

Mac geek here. Easy, Shreds.
1) No. It is not true. Not, not, not. This is not the cause of your problem. Honest to god. You should be able to clutter your desktop with as many documents as you like and open them from the desktop as much as you like. A MacBook Pro should be able to run a dozen programs with ease and speed, allowing you to switch seamlessly from one to the other.

2) First question: how much RAM do you have? MacBook Pro needs about 1gig. So if you've only got 512, you may have too little. It will run with that amount, but it will not be speedy, especially if you have a lot of programs open. If you have a gig, one of the Ram might be bad and need replacement. If you go under the Apple there, and pick "About this Mac" then "more info" then "memory" it should show you how much Ram you have. If it indicate less than you thought you had (just 512) then one Ram isn't working.

3) Assuming the Ram is good, try this: open up Applications>Utlities>Disk Utility.
Click on your hard drive there on the left.
Click on "Repair Permissions."
Wait till it's done, then restart.

That's the secret ritual, by the way If your computer give you trouble, "repair permissions."

4) If you keep having problems after that, take it to an Apple Genius Bar or just call Apple--being that your Macbook is only a week old, you can still call Apple. Up to, I believe 30-60 days, then you have to have Apple Care to make that free phone call.

There have been Macbooks with "shut-down" problems. This is a known problem in the new line, one they're aware of and one they've got under control and are able to fix--if, heaven forbid--this is the problem, it will be fixed for free and with all speed. Word on the discussion boards is that this is no longer a problem, but you never know what got under the wire.

Oh, and forget about Norton. If you want something to clean things up, get Disk Warrior.

Hope that helps. If you want more advice, go here: Apple Discussions or feel free to PM me. I'm not the geekest of Mac users, but they are my computer of choice and have been since 1984

 

[shereads]

Mac geek here. Easy, Shreds.
1) No. It is not true. Not, not, not. This is not the cause of your problem. Honest to god. You should be able to clutter your desktop with as many documents as you like and open them from the desktop as much as you like. A MacBook Pro should be able to run a dozen programs with ease and speed, allowing you to switch seamlessly from one to the other.

2) First question: how much RAM do you have? MacBook Pro needs about 1gig. So if you've only got 512, you may have too little. It will run with that amount, but it will not be speedy, especially if you have a lot of programs open. If you have a gig, one of the Ram might be bad and need replacement. If you go under the Apple there, and pick "About this Mac" then "more info" then "memory" it should show you how much Ram you have. If it indicate less than you thought you had (just 512) then one Ram isn't working.

3) Assuming the Ram is good, try this: open up Applications>Utlities>Disk Utility.
Click on your hard drive there on the left.
Click on "Repair Permissions."
Wait till it's done, then restart.

That's the secret ritual, by the way If your computer give you trouble, "repair permissions."

4) If you keep having problems after that, take it to an Apple Genius Bar or just call Apple--being that your Macbook is only a week old, you can still call Apple. Up to, I believe 30-60 days, then you have to have Apple Care to make that free phone call.

There have been Macbooks with "shut-down" problems. This is a known problem in the new line, one they're aware of and one they've got under control and are able to fix--if, heaven forbid--this is the problem, it will be fixed for free and with all speed. Word on the discussion boards is that this is no longer a problem, but you never know what got under the wire.

Oh, and forget about Norton. If you want something to clean things up, get Disk Warrior.

Hope that helps. If you want more advice, go here: Apple Discussions or feel free to PM me. I'm not the geekest of Mac users, but they are my computer of choice and have been since 1984

I'll try some of this. Thank you!

Btw, I do have a gig. And I didn't mean to imply that the machine is only a week old - the problem started after the first week, but hasn't been worth worrying about until recently.

Someone else suggested that if it runs hot, that might cause problems. Mine isn't one of the recalled models, but it does run hot. Hot enough that if I don't shut down at night, I have to let it cool by removing the battery for 30 seconds before it will start.
I assume these lithium ion batteries have to burst into flames before they qualify for the recall.

 

[shereads]

COOL!

I hadn't looked at all the new Applications until I went into Disc Utilities to try the secret ritual. There's all kinds of stuff I can play with and screw up some night when I'm drunk on Ambien!

Activity Monitor, for example. I can display all the processes that my Mac is running in the background and Force Quit the ones I don't like.



That should work.

 

[rgraham666]

COOL!

I hadn't looked at all the new Applications until I went into Disc Utilities to try the secret ritual. There's all kinds of stuff I can play with and screw up some night when I'm drunk on Ambien!

Activity Monitor, for example. I can display all the processes that my Mac is running in the background and Force Quit the ones I don't like.



That should work.

Make sure you do backups.

 

[3113]

Someone else suggested that if it runs hot, that might cause problems. Mine isn't one of the recalled models, but it does run hot. Hot enough that if I don't shut down at night, I have to let it cool by removing the battery for 30 seconds before it will start.
I assume these lithium ion batteries have to burst into flames before they qualify for the recall.

There was a Mac update some three weeks ago--something called "Firmware" which directly addressed the heat problem. Have you done a recent download of updates?

If not, just go under System Preferences>software update. Download whatever you get, but pay especially attention to the one called "Firmware update." It's not just a download; there are instructions to follow.

Follow the instructions on this firmware and it SHOULD reduce the heat. If you've already done this, and it's still running hot then I would say to take it into Apple. If your computer is older than a week, it might have the shut-down/heat issue.

Here's something to help you monitor the heat: iStat Pro

It's a widget that will tell you everthing that's going on in your computer, including how much space is being used, etc., AND the temperature. The temp shouldn't go much higher than 60 C.

 

[shereads]

There was a Mac update some three weeks ago--something called "Firmware" which directly addressed the heat problem. Have you done a recent download of updates?

If not, just go under System Preferences>software update. Download whatever you get, but pay especially attention to the one called "Firmware update." It's not just a download; there are instructions to follow.

Follow the instructions on this firmware and it SHOULD reduce the heat. If you've already done this, and it's still running hot then I would say to take it into Apple. If your computer is older than a week, it might have the shut-down/heat issue.

Here's something to help you monitor the heat: iStat Pro

It's a widget that will tell you everthing that's going on in your computer, including how much space is being used, etc., AND the temperature. The temp shouldn't go much higher than 60 C.

You know stuff!

I update software automatically each week. I haven't noticed anything called Firmware, but that could just be because I never look at what's being updated. Is there a way I can locate Firmware and see if it's in here doin' its thang?

 

[3113]

I update software automatically each week. I haven't noticed anything called Firmware, but that could just be because I never look at what's being updated. Is there a way I can locate Firmware and see if it's in here doin' its thang?

Go to: System Preference>Updates>installed updates. This will tell you if the firmware was downloaded and installed. You want the one that reads: Macbook SMC Firmware Update.

It should have a mid-August date, If it wasn't installed, or if you're just unsure, you can also go under Spotlight. Type in "Firmware" and when it comes up, go for that mid-August one and double click on that. It will tell you if you're up-to-date.

As I said, this wasn't just a download. There was a certain way to run it. Namely, you had to unplug the computer (if it was plugged in), and re-start. When the computer came back up, running only on battery, the fans would spin for a minute (indicating that the firmware was doing its thing) and after that all would be well.

Did you download the widget? Just how hot are you running? My Macbook black is currently at 59 C.

 

[shereads]

Go to: System Preference>Updates>installed updates. This will tell you if the firmware was downloaded and installed. You want the one that reads: Macbook SMC Firmware Update.

It should have a mid-August date, If it wasn't installed, or if you're just unsure, you can also go under Spotlight. Type in "Firmware" and when it comes up, go for that mid-August one and double click on that. It will tell you if you're up-to-date.

As I said, this wasn't just a download. There was a certain way to run it. Namely, you had to unplug the computer (if it was plugged in), and re-start. When the computer came back up, running only on battery, the fans would spin for a minute (indicating that the firmware was doing its thing) and after that all would be well.

Did you download the widget? Just how hot are you running? My Macbook black is currently at 59 C.

I found the Firmware update at apple.com, did the download, and got a message saying I don't need it. Thanks, though.

Before you wise up and start charging me by the hour, I have another question. Software-related.

I backed up Word files on a keychain before I retired the old ibook. Now one of the docs won't open. Clicking on its icon opens Word, but I get this message:

"Word can't open this document. The document might be in use or might not be a valid Word file."

Invalid my Aunt Fanny! I wrote the damn thing in Word; it tries to open
Word.

The frustrating thing is, I know the document isn't blank. I didn't remember what I'd named the file, so I did a search using a phrase from the text. If the Finder can read the document, that means there's something on it, doesn't it? Any idea how I might rescue it?

(I tried contacting Microsoft to ask how to restore the file. But when I tried to register for product service using the product id number from "About Word," I got an Invalid ID number message. 3 times. )

I like this way better.

 

[Jailhouse]

I saw this thread and was about to come bursting in here full of advice and information (as I run the exact same machine and configuration), but 3113 seens to have everything I would have said covered. Follow his advice; it's the best advice I've read so far in this thread where your problems are concerned.

I'll add an extra word or two just to flesh things out a bit.

There used to be a problem (I don't know if this is still an issue) with Windows where having too many documents on the desktop would slow things down and tax the CPU. I don't know exactly why this was, but I know it had something to do with the computer doing a check of things on the desktop during startup.

Beware of certain "fixit" programs like Norton Utilities. Though there's some worth in them for getting your Mac back on track, they are also proven sometimes to introduce problems during the "checkup" routine, just so they can fix it. After all, which program do you think is doing a better job: The one that checks your disk and says "Everything's fine"? Or the one that says "Found a problem and fixed it!"? Best thing to do is to use Apple's own disk repair utility, and the best way to do that is to boot from your installation disks and run it off of those. If you need help figuring out how to do that, just ask.

Anyhow, I've had zero problems with my Macbook Pro whatsoever. Hopefully, with a little tweaking, you should have no trouble either. Best of luck.

Question: Is it true that I mess up my hard drive by opening documents directly from the desktop?

("Mess up" is a layperson's term meaning "screw up" or "make it get all wierd.")

I hadn't had this shiny new machine more than a week before it started slowing down and having difficulties at start-up. I know several people with the same set-up (MacBook Pro running OS X 10.4.7) and none of them has this problem.

I got in the habit years ago of storing my Word documents in folders on the desktop instead of in 'Documents,' the default destination for saves. Our IT people always warned the graphic artists not to open their work from the desktop; I never learned why, and didn't think it mattered as long as I was only using Word. When my company-owned Macs suffered from slow start-up or worsening performance, I'd run Norton Utilities; if there was no improvement, I'd call IT and they'd conduct some secret ritual to clean up the hard drive.

Now it's my machine, my problem - and Norton Utilities isn't compatible with the new operating system. What to do?

 

[shereads]

I saw this thread and was about to come bursting in here full of advice and information (as I run the exact same machine and configuration), but 3113 seens to have everything I would have said covered. Follow his advice; it's the best advice I've read so far in this thread where your problems are concerned.

Feel free to jump in on this damaged Word document.

Googling 'repair' and 'recover' turns up disc repair software; Microsoft Word's website offers ways to address a damaged document - provided it can be opened. Mine can't.

BTW, the keychain I used to back up my ibook (before the Crash of '06) is sold at Apple's website. After I bought and used it, one reviewer blamed it for contaminating his Mac with a, uh...with something that would tend to mess things up. This reviewer claims the keychain isn't fully OSX compatible. He also says the damage occurs as soon as you plug the thing into your USB port...Which made transferring my Word files from the keychain to the new Mac a complicated process involving a trip to Kinkos where I hoped to contaminate their Mac with the keychain, then transfer my files from their desktop to a disc to my MacBook.

Didn't work. Apparently Kinko's software for the Mac hasn't been updated since the Truman administration. I dug up my even older ibook with a working, albeit primitive, hard drive; sacrificed it to the keychain instead of Kinkos' Mac; moved my files to a disc, and copied them onto my MacBook.

Naturally, the one document that will be the most difficult to recreate from memory is the only one that won't open.

First person with a working solution wins a free 1 gig keychain!

 

[Lisa Denton]

:
"Word can't open this document. The document might be in use or might not be a valid Word file."

Invalid my Aunt Fanny! I wrote the damn thing in Word; it tries to open
Word.

(I tried contacting Microsoft to ask how to restore the file. But when I tried to register for product service using the product id number from "About Word," I got an Invalid ID number message. 3 times. )

I had that a few times after re-installing word, it needs a "word update" to convert older or different word docs into what it has now, from the words pages updates. Your "invalid ID message" is going to be a problem getting updates. I had that one time also, even though I knew it was good, I had to fix it by going and getting a illegal cracked number, because they always work.

I wouldn't recommend that of course, and suggest you try a fourth time, and member ................ sometimes copy/paste fudges the numbers for those things, try typing it in.

Just a suggestion.

 

[shereads]

I had that a few times after re-installing word, it needs a "word update" to convert older or different word docs into what it has now, from the words pages updates.

That's odd. Everything on the keychain was written over the last year, in the same version of Word.

Maybe I can offer Finder a bribe. If Finder can read the document well enough to locate it using a line of text, Finder should be able to read it to me over the phone while I retype it in Word. There's no reason Word ever has to find out I even know Finder.

Complicated, but it might be easier than finding a fake product ID that Microsoft will prefer to my legitimate one.

 

[3113]

Text Edit

The frustrating thing is, I know the document isn't blank. I didn't remember what I'd named the file, so I did a search using a phrase from the text. If the Finder can read the document, that means there's something on it, doesn't it? Any idea how I might rescue it?

Hmmmm.

This is a tougher problem. First, make sure you know the name of the thing and how to get to it. To do this go: Finder>that spotlight window. Type in a phrase from the document. It will find the document name--but it will also, at the bottom, show you exactly where it is and how to get to it (i.e. the path you have to take to find it). Keep that window up for reference.

Now...There's a program called "Text Edit" that's on your computer (or ought to be). You can find this by, once again, simply using spotlight.

Try to open your "blank" document using that program (Text Edit>File>Open). If Text Edit can read it, then "Select all" and copy it. Create a new word file and paste in what you copied. Save. Now you have a new document of the old "blank" document that word can read. In theory.

If text edit can't read it...then I don't know what else to suggest.

 

[McKenna]

RE: Mac Geek

For a split-second there, I thought you were referring to me.

 

[Weird Harold]

Maybe I can offer Finder a bribe. If Finder can read the document well enough to locate it using a line of text, Finder should be able to read it to me over the phone while I retype it in Word. There's no reason Word ever has to find out I even know Finder.

Does your version of Word has the "Recover Text From Any File" option for opening non-word files? If it does, rename the bad file as a .TXT file and turn off the "automatically convert files" option to bring up the conversion options when you try to open it.

You'll lose most of your formatting, but shouldn't lose any of the text.

 

[Lisa Denton]

That's odd. Everything on the keychain was written over the last year, in the same version of Word.

Maybe I can offer Finder a bribe. If Finder can read the document well enough to locate it using a line of text, Finder should be able to read it to me over the phone while I retype it in Word. There's no reason Word ever has to find out I even know Finder.

Complicated, but it might be easier than finding a fake product ID that Microsoft will prefer to my legitimate one.

Yea, I woulda thought it was funny but it drove me mad a couple times until I figured it out, all docs open except one or two that are exactly the same, anywho, if and when you get into the word updates it will even say you need that one. After you get it all files will open and if someone e-mails you something different that will open also.

Its not hard to find fake product ID's. Of course I only do it when my legally purchased ID doesn't work (cough, cough) and I am forced to because the idiot techhies say they can't figure it out.

Now if I re-install word, any version, I go straight to the updates pages and get all the useless crap I don't want, because it has that one lil thing I need.