Is the Vietnam war taboo?

[CND]

I've just noticed that my story about a Vietnam veteran has been approved. I hope you all like it, and furthermore that noone is offended by it. Some claim you shouldn't joke about death while others state that you should not open up old wounds. I hope this story doesn't do either.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=44074

 

[KillerMuffin]

*shrugs* I've got one up that happened in Bataan immediately after the Death March. I have to get around to writing part two to that. Thanks for the reminder.

Generally, as long as you treat something with either obvious satire or with dignity, you won't have troubles. Most people fail miserably at satire.

 

[CND]

Satire could be next.

KM, satire might be the next approach. I haven't written much with a humourous approach yet, even if it would be natural for me to do just that.

My unknowing reminder might become fruitful in yet another delicious story from you, just as my story was planned and executed accordingly as three parts (2 and 3 pending at the moment). Just as long as my reminder become a thorn in your side.

 

[MysteryWriter]

done it

I wrote a couple of pieces set in the nam and the only thing i got were nice gentle rebuffs where my memories differ from other people's.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

CND,

The problem, as I see it, with using 'Nam as a setting is that a lot of Americans served over there and have vivid memories of what happened in their particular area of operation which was often only a tiny portion of the country.

This situation creates a high credibility bar for writers to negotiate, even if they have first-hand experience. What one person experienced serving with a Marine recon unit in the northern, I Corps, AO would differ in many ways from the experiences of a "grunt" serving with the 9th Div. in the IV Corps delta region south of Saigon.

Writing-wise, my primary complaint is that your story suffers from a severe shortage of commas while there's an overabundance of the word "AND". You also need to work on your transitions. The switch from the love cave to his look-out post was abrupt and, for me at least, confusion. Of course discribing his spot as "well-hidden" was, at best, ironic in light of the girl having already spotted it and his impending capture.

One last writing type nit-pick. You went to some lenght in the first three paragraphs telling the reader about the character's nickname and his reaction to that name. Maybe I just missed it, but I don't believe there were any later references to that name.

Now for some Viet Nam type military nit picking. (I managed to qualify for my very own Purple Heart while serving with an Army recon unit in 1969)

For starters, although your 18 year old character must be fluent in Vietnamese, (how else could he know what those guys were saying?) IMHO and militarily speaking, he just might be the biggest dumb-ass, mother-fucker in military history (which is saying a lot). Leaving your duty station, especially in the field, is a major no-no in any army during any war. Of course, only someone that stupid would follow a gal into an unknown cave when he's been seeing enemy troops in the region.

A couple other military points. Recon (no hyphen) works for Intelligence, collecting the raw data which the REMP's (rear echelon malignant pricks) then mis-interpret.

Also, recon units tend to be small. Therefore, when working alone, they try to stay out of sight and on the move. To the best of my knowledge, in 'Nam, all military units in the field prefered having a new postion each night so the bad guys wouldn't have time to concentrate troops and/or bring in mortars and rockets for an attack. For a small, lightly armed, recon unit, this wasn't a preference so much as a life or death necessity.

Anyway, hope some of this helps.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[CND]

The problems about not being there.

Thank you for your kind review of my story. If you look for Chapter 2 I hope you won't find as many errors regarding the military and Vietnam, since the story moves from Vietnam to another place in the world.

You pointed out alot of things, some of which I understand to the fullest. Sure, I never stated anywhere that Dacro is the brightest of persons, that what he did was in any way right. What was pointed out was that he's life would never be the same after his time in 'Nam. Chapters 2 and 3 will also help clearify these matters hopefully.

Your notes also show that you can never do enough research before you write. It is also the reason why I (which I've pointed out in another thread) never write about famous persons, because I do not know any famous person, and regardless how much research I would do, I'd still end up not knowing enough.

One last thing which might set the story in the right perspective. Chapter 1 was written in February 2000, Chapter 2 in June 2001 while Chapter 3 became a reality in July 2001. I hope you'll find grammar, spelling and such improved in Chapters 2 and 3 just because I had more practice to write, more time to learn, and had grown as a person during that time.

Thank you once again. You have been most helpful.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Good reply, CND. It's nice to do a critique for someone who can accept it with the understanding they're strictly the observations and opinions of one writer given to another.

When it comes to research, here's a tip which you may find useful. It is, IMHO, virtually impossible to become an expert on every aspect of some historical character or event. However, it is possible to become very knowledgeable about ONE aspect.

For example, don't try to know everything about Benjamin Franklin. Instaed, focus on one slightly obscure part of his life, such as his having an Illegitimate son who was Royal governor of New Jersey at the start of the American Revolution and remained loyal to the English cause.

The same applies for any war, including Viet Nam. Most soldiers suffer from what's called "the foxhole syndrome". They know a lot about what they saw, but don't always grasp the big picture. Learn a lot about a little and remind those who quibble that things were often different in different places and at different times.

Good luck,

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Impetus]

I managed to qualify for my very own Purple Heart while serving with an Army recon unit in 1969)

*Applause*

-I

 

[MysteryWriter]

RFS

You summed up exactly what my stories suffered when I set them in the nam (note no caps). Every single soldier, even the one beside you, had a different view of the war.

I was with MACV during 1966. I was in the field with several units and knew men from several other units. However, unless you were with any given unit, you would not know their particular problems and remedies for those problem. It is almost impossible to explain that the war was far to vast for a common understanding. I assume it got worse as the time went on.

I wrote and ambush bit. It was exactly the ambush I remember with just a few changes made to make the bit more interesting. No, I did not change the fear or the desire to wet my pants. Just made the villain a little more villainous. Hey it is fiction. My feedback ran from you got it right, to it is understandable that my memories differ. There was one that said, "You have no idea what you are talking about."

But then I also got that from a bit on tracker dogs. I guess the truth is none of us have the same opinions thus there are horse races.

 

[MysteryWriter]

I forgot something

I think I am the only writer yet to talk about nam in terms of pure terror. Almost everyone I read talks about heroic and there was plenty of it to go around. There was a lot more 100% pure terror in the men I knew.

I also knew one absolutely crazy son of a bitch who loved it. But like I said he was crazy. Everyone else spent their field days between fear and abject terror. I personally waffled between throwing up and pissing my pants. Hard for me to see a love or sex story in indian country. Now Siagon there is another story entirely.

 

[CND]

Sex in ackward places.

Thank you MysteryWriter for your personal view on those days. I of course have no idea what it was like, and I have never said so either. I was born while the Vietnam War was being fought, so what I know is what I have read in articles, magazines and so forth.

I totally respect and to some extent understand that Vietnam (or any other war) is hardly a time and place for hot passionate sex. Looking at other wars, it's might be easier to set it up as a rape scene, if it would have been an attempt to write with great realism. However, just as I have been taught to joke about anything, so is my thought about writing. It IS possible to write what I have written. Just as you have written in your post, it's a bit of writer's freedom to alter things to make a unique and perhaps MORE interesting story.

Terror, wet pants, stinking wommit, they were all part of Vietnam, I never tried to hide that, I merely didn't choose to include those elements considering that it is a sex story.

I hope you understand the freedom I have taken when writing the story, and on that note I also noticed that Chapter 2 has been approved, which might explain a few loose ends, or perhaps leave even more loose ends unattended.

Agent Dacro Sanx, Chapter 2: The Lust of Deju Vu.
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=44075

 

[MysteryWriter]

are you kidding

There was huge amounts of hot sex in the nam. Probably as much clap there as in a Neil Simon play. I did all mine when I was in Saigon, but I am more than a little sure the guys in the field found a way to get laid.

I swear, I never meant to come off sounding like an expert cause I hate those guys. I was just tossing afew things out about me. Most of the guys probably werent as terrified as me.

There is nothing like thinking you are going to die any minute to make you want to get laid. The most profitable business in the nam was prostitution, liquor, and drugs. Not so much drugs when I was there. About the time of rfs got there, I hear they were everywhere.

I think there is some relationship between physical danger and vice. That might be an interesting story line. Anyway I was certainly not offended and no one can do justice to all of it. Just thought I would toss in a little of the other side.

Good luck with the writing. I am sure you will do fine.

 

[CND]

Sex and danger.

MysteryWriter, then we're two non-offended persons. We're all looking for feedback, if that also gives me and others an opportunity to learn more about past experiences, that's a great sideeffect.

"There is nothing like thinking you are going to die any minute to make you want to get laid."

Hm? I have yet to experience this.
I'll get back to you when I have. *lol*

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

CND & MysteryWriter

CND

Don't get discouraged by any of my comments. I'm pulling for you, as is, I think, MW. It's interesting however, to chew over the problems of accuracy verses verisimilitude.

After my last post, it occured to me that one way to limit the amount of "you got it all screwed up" type feedback is to be as specfic as possible about the time, date, place, and unit as opposed to the protag being a generic soldier in a generic outfit.

The other method is to double check any specific nit picks, and forget the generalized complaints.

Also, don't worry about not having any "first-hand" experience. Stephen Crain never heard a shot fired during the Civil War, but IMHO his, "The Red Badge of Courage," is the standard by which all other "war stories" should be judged. (by the way, his protag, unit, and battle were generic-so much for my wise advice)

A writing note. If the reader has to read chapter 2 for clarification, there's a good chance they won't. Your first sentence, paragraph, page, chapter better be the best, most interesting, prose you can produce.

MysteryWriter

What's the spelling/grammar rule for the late, great RVN? I've seen it both "Vietnam," and "Viet Nam?"

Also, (pay attention CND) it's interesting what you said about sex and combat. While I was in the bush, sex was almost an abstract concept. For me at least, being hot, tired, dirty, and being anything from constantly alert to scared shitless all the time really screwed up my imaginary love life.

Once out of the bush, the old re-productive drive would kick into overdrive. When that hits guys in their late teens and early 20's sitting around bored on some fire base, landing zone, or major compound, the desire for sex could become an obsession.

That's why, CND, I thought you did a good job of describing the protag's reaction to the girl. He was in the bush, but not particularly active. The moment he began looking at that female as a possible sex object instead of a possible enemy, it was an overwhelming sensation he was unable to resist.

Rumple Foreskin
late of Echo/Recon, 1/52nd Bn, 198th LIB, Americal Div.
(MW will understand)

 

[MysteryWriter]

ah that I were such a hero.

I have no idea about the spelling and grammar on it. I have written it both ways and felt guilty for not knowing if it was really Vietnam or Viet Nam. I never used the phrase the nam until recently. I always called it vietnam.

I am amaZed at how much I have forgotten. A little head trama helped with that too. The more time that passes the longer it takes me to remember how it felt to be scared to death for days at a time. It is a good fucking thing they dont send old men to war. We probably wouldnt go at all.

I do think the most interesting thing is the relationship between fear and sex. I noticed it again after a very close call in an automobile accident. I could not wait to get a woman in bed. I was older by then so I cant blame it on youth. I really should take a hard look at that one.

By the way rfs how do you sleep? Should have been my first question sorry. Have a bon de bon on me if you can find one

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

MW,

Keep me posted on your fear/sex research. Some elements of that combination may be part of what turns on the BDSM crowd. I just know that sex wasn't a big deal for anybody in my unit while we were out "humping" in the "bush".

However, a week or two after I was wounded, I'm sound asleep in a nice, clean hosptial bed at Camp Zama in Japan and had one of the most powerfully erotic "wet" dream I've ever experienced. (also messy as hell)

In the strange-but-true coincidence category, the subject of that dream was my last girlfriend who, I later learned, was getting married at about the time of my nocturnal emission.

As for sleep, I've been lucky when it comes to dreams of RVN. The few I'm aware of haven't been traumatic. BUT: 1. I was in country for just three months, 2. Was a comparatively ancient 22 when wounded, 3. Know only four guys on "The Wall", and (thanks to time in VA hospitals and my job), 4. have gotten to know, and compare experiences with, many vets from many wars.

RF

 

[MysteryWriter]

you got it

on the death and vice thingie