Is poetry in decline?

[cward2]

Is poetry in decline?
I've been noticing that hardly any poets are receiving major attention in bookshops, in the media etc. Poetry seems to have been pushed aside by the major publishers. It seems to be more and more a minor part of our society.
What do you think about this?

 

[flyguy69]

Is poetry in decline?
I've been noticing that hardly any poets are receiving major attention in bookshops, in the media etc. Poetry seems to have been pushed aside by the major publishers. It seems to be more and more a minor part of our society.
What do you think about this?

What is your point of reference, cward2? When do you think poetry held a more prominent role?

I think I agree with you, but the first time I ever looked at a poetry shelf in a book store was just over a year ago so I really can't assess trends.

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

Is poetry in decline?
I've been noticing that hardly any poets are receiving major attention in bookshops, in the media etc. Poetry seems to have been pushed aside by the major publishers. It seems to be more and more a minor part of our society.
What do you think about this?

[soapbox=on]
Persoanlly I think there is a decline not just in attention being given to poetry but in what poetry is at its root in these present days. I see very very many emotional out pourings in free verse style and it being called poetry. To Quote Coleridge "I wish our clever young poets would remember my homely definitions of prose and poetry; that is, prose,—words in their best order; poetry,—the best words in their best order."

I think we have let poetry become a place to things with feeling and less about doing it well and with feeling. It has become underappreciated becuase the art of good poetry is lost.

I cringe to see most free verse laden with over sentimentality, and yet when I see it done very well I sigh because I can't do it that well. I would hope that future lit teachers do not applaud any effort because it was an effort but challenge young minds to put the best words in the best order.

[/soapbox]

 

[bogusbrig]

Is poetry in decline?
I've been noticing that hardly any poets are receiving major attention in bookshops, in the media etc. Poetry seems to have been pushed aside by the major publishers. It seems to be more and more a minor part of our society.
What do you think about this?

At the beginning of thr 20th century people would queue up around the block for release of poetry collections but now even the large publishers only publish about six volumes a year. I rarely browse the ever decreasing poetry section in a book shop because I can guess what is on the shelf without needing to look. Mostly I cruise the secondhand book stores for gems but now I don't live in an English speaking country, even that pleasure has been denied me.

I've quoted Adrian Mitchell's statement more than once on these threads so I'm going to produce a few yawns but I think he was so right when he said in 1964 'Most people ignore most poetry because most poetry ignores most people.' It's up to poets to make their product, yes product! attractive, interesting and relevent. Most poetry organisations from what I can tell are elitist. One English poet talked cynically of the hallowed halls of the Poetry Society and it being like a cathedral to pretentious elitism. Which means it is those people at the bottom who love the art that have to do something about making poetry popular.

As for Coleridge. Wasn't he the first poet to feature in The Rolling Stone?

 

[The_Fool]

I would say reading in general is in decline. Who needs a book when you have Cable TV and the World Wide Wrestling Foundation?

 

[flyguy69]

According to the Nat'l Center for Education Statistics, literacy, measured both in test scores and in functional performance, has been unchanged among 17-year-olds since 1971, while among 9-year-olds it is higher than any previous year.

That does not contradict Fool's assertion because the research says nothing about what people choose to read, only that they are as good at it as they have ever been.

 

[annaswirls]

Amen. And I think there is a place for both-- theraputic/recreational poetry and "professional" poetry

People used to write in journals and diaries and lock them up, hide them away. Now the trend is to open up and share share share, which may be healthy, but it is not something people will generally purchase or go listen to. People generally run away quickly.

The era of the talk show, the open up and air it out, the blog, the reality tv... okay all well and good, but there is more to poetry than sharing experience and emotion.

When I tell people that I am a poet, the often look a little scared, like I might pull something horrible out of my pocket and make them listen! AHH RUN AWAY! And I have a hard time explaining, no really I am a poet, not just someone who bleeds my heart onto paper, seals it with my tears and ties it with a ribbon (Although of COURSE I do that too!!!)

I did a poetry service at church, and a week or so afterwards, a woman came up and told me-- "I loved the poetry service! I was not going to come (insert face of a woman eating a sour lemon) but I figured might as well, and it was wonderful!"

(Mind you I am not bragging here, it was mostly people from the congregation reading some modern poetry and some of their own, I only read one short one of my own and did the homily)

This is a good topic for discussion, one that has been done-- just so you know, you are not alone in your thoughts/concerns.

[soapbox=on]
Persoanlly I think there is a decline not just in attention being given to poetry but in what poetry is at its root in these present days. I see very very many emotional out pourings in free verse style and it being called poetry. To Quote Coleridge "I wish our clever young poets would remember my homely definitions of prose and poetry; that is, prose,—words in their best order; poetry,—the best words in their best order."

I think we have let poetry become a place to things with feeling and less about doing it well and with feeling. It has become underappreciated becuase the art of good poetry is lost.

I cringe to see most free verse laden with over sentimentality, and yet when I see it done very well I sigh because I can't do it that well. I would hope that future lit teachers do not applaud any effort because it was an effort but challenge young minds to put the best words in the best order.

[/soapbox]

 

[Reltne]

According to the Nat'l Center for Education Statistics, literacy, measured both in test scores and in functional performance, has been unchanged among 17-year-olds since 1971, while among 9-year-olds it is higher than any previous year.

That does not contradict Fool's assertion because the research says nothing about what people choose to read, only that they are as good at it as they have ever been.

I would think that computers are probably responsible for the increase in literacy. - Both computers and TV are probably the main reasons for fewer people choosing to read for pleasure.

Too bad "Harry Potter" is not written in verse.

 

[flyguy69]

I would think that computers are probably responsible for the increase in literacy. - Both computers and TV are probably the main reasons for fewer people choosing to read for pleasure....

Ironic, since I am reading this on a computer!

 

[bogusbrig]

Poetry in eastern Europe apparently is huge but apparently since the decline of the Soviet block and new wealth flowing there since many countries joined the EU there has been an apparent slow decline. I remember a quote from an article I was reading that said 'people without shoes need poetry, people with shoes don't' Maybe there is some truth in it.

 

[annaswirls]

oh my God! I DO need shoes!
That explains it!

Poetry in eastern Europe apparently is huge but apparently since the decline of the Soviet block and new wealth flowing there since many countries joined the EU there has been an apparent slow decline. I remember a quote from an article I was reading that said 'people without shoes need poetry, people with shoes don't' Maybe there is some truth in it.

 

[bogusbrig]

oh my God! I DO need shoes!
That explains it!

Didn't you get thrown out of church for reading one of your poems or have you got one wholesome poem for such occasions?


Edited: I answered the wrong post. I guess that just about sums up my day.

 

[Sabina_Tolchovsky]

yes, I agree poetry was in demand around the turn of the century...Poets could actaully choose a profession as a poet and make a living from it. This time frame in my opinion produced some of the heaviest hitters as far a poetry was concerned...
Case in point was the Irish Literary Renaissance which flourished around this time, with people like James Stephens and Yeats...plays were more popular around this time too. Now, all you need is a DVD and some popcorn when people used to go out and see a play or hear a poet read...our society has changed. A man (or woman) could make a living writing in this golden age...that just does not happen very often anymore.
I agree with Bogus, you have to promote your work for it to become popular...I don't think we are going to see a reacurance of poetry or plays the way they were though. The golden era is gone...time marches on, people forget...tastes change.

 

[ewopper]

[soapbox=on]
Persoanlly I think there is a decline not just in attention being given to poetry but in what poetry is at its root in these present days. I see very very many emotional out pourings in free verse style and it being called poetry. To Quote Coleridge "I wish our clever young poets would remember my homely definitions of prose and poetry; that is, prose,—words in their best order; poetry,—the best words in their best order."

I think we have let poetry become a place to things with feeling and less about doing it well and with feeling. It has become underappreciated becuase the art of good poetry is lost.

I cringe to see most free verse laden with over sentimentality, and yet when I see it done very well I sigh because I can't do it that well. I would hope that future lit teachers do not applaud any effort because it was an effort but challenge young minds to put the best words in the best order.

[/soapbox]

While I agree with much of what you say, Idon't think we should demand structure as much as challenging the young poets to increase their vocabulary to display their thoughts more descriptively, the rhyme or free verse options will come

 

[annaswirls]

Didn't you get thrown out of church for reading one of your poems or have you got one wholesome poem for such occasions?


Edited: I answered the wrong post. I guess that just about sums up my day.

Oh I read a rated pg-13 one
I have not written a naughty poem in a while! What is up with that?
besides it is a cool church, we have roots in a free pulpit tradition.

 

[ewopper]

yes, I agree poetry was in demand around the turn of the century...Poets could actaully choose a profession as a poet and make a living from it. This time frame in my opinion produced some of the heaviest hitters as far a poetry was concerned...
Case in point was the Irish Literary Renaissance which flourished around this time, with people like James Stephens and Yeats...plays were more popular around this time too. Now, all you need is a DVD and some popcorn when people used to go out and see a play or hear a poet read...our society has changed. A man (or woman) could make a living writing in this golden age...that just does not happen very often anymore.
I agree with Bogus, you have to promote your work for it to become popular...I don't think we are going to see a reacurance of poetry or plays the way they were though. The golden era is gone...time marches on, people forget...tastes change.

I host an open mic here where I live and go to several within a fifty mile radius,, the poets that come out are young, timid, and shy. In rare cases some seem fearless and undaunted in their words .I keep getting the cop out I didn't know you had open mics.[mikes] here or there.we the poets need to push it in our respective areas, hometowns etc. I find libraries are most receptive in having poets read. And if youaren't financially able to go through a traditional publisher,type up 10-20 of your best poems or more,design a cover, go to staples or kinkos or some small printing co. have your collection bound in 5-10 books whatever your budget can stand and go promote your works. Thiois is how I got started. I am developing quite a following. also find a free website where you can post your poetry, and keep all rights, a great suggestion would be the Starlie Cafe. Let me make it perfectly clear, This is in no way a promotional plug, just review the site and decide for yourself.

 

[wildsweetone]

yes, I agree poetry was in demand around the turn of the century...Poets could actaully choose a profession as a poet and make a living from it. This time frame in my opinion produced some of the heaviest hitters as far a poetry was concerned...
Case in point was the Irish Literary Renaissance which flourished around this time, with people like James Stephens and Yeats...plays were more popular around this time too. Now, all you need is a DVD and some popcorn when people used to go out and see a play or hear a poet read...our society has changed. A man (or woman) could make a living writing in this golden age...that just does not happen very often anymore.
I agree with Bogus, you have to promote your work for it to become popular...I don't think we are going to see a reacurance of poetry or plays the way they were though. The golden era is gone...time marches on, people forget...tastes change.

i was reading an essay recently written with the bias that there is too much poetry out there in the world these days. every man, woman and their kids are penning the stuff. the essay author was saying a vast portion of it was rubbish and thereby causing a 'decline' in poetry on bookshelves.

perhaps there's a glimmer of truth in what he said, but i'm beginning to thing the resurgence of writing poetry will bring back the 'golden era' where you can call in at a local venue and listen to poetry being read by people in your area.

just imagine what a novelty that would be in 2006, to call in for a drink at a local pub and sit listening for an hour to poetry being read.

heck, it might empty movie theatres of everyone over 40.

 

[bogusbrig]

i was reading an essay recently written with the bias that there is too much poetry out there in the world these days. every man, woman and their kids are penning the stuff. the essay author was saying a vast portion of it was rubbish and thereby causing a 'decline' in poetry on bookshelves.

perhaps there's a glimmer of truth in what he said, but i'm beginning to thing the resurgence of writing poetry will bring back the 'golden era' where you can call in at a local venue and listen to poetry being read by people in your area.

just imagine what a novelty that would be in 2006, to call in for a drink at a local pub and sit listening for an hour to poetry being read.

heck, it might empty movie theatres of everyone over 40.

Whoever wrote that essay I think is nuts. For the top of the pyramid to be healthy, there needs to be a healthy base. Using soccer as an example. Only by people kicking a soccer ball round the field after school and at weekends do you get a healthy crop of professional soccer players rising through the system. What people need is for more and more people to take interest in the art. Hopefully some of those who read and write it will develop their talent and appreciation, some will just stagnate, that is the nature of things in any activity.

 

[wildsweetone]

perhaps poetry in the 21st century will be like everyone having a cell phone as an extra limb attached to their body.

 

[Angeline]

To me the whole question of whether poetry is in decline seems irrelevent. Artists throughout history have only had the leisure to create if they had patrons or money--or the latter because they had the former. The only other option is to support oneself doing something else and make time to write. The lucky ones do this by teaching poetry, for example--at least they get to be around it, if not lots of time to create their own. Then there are people like Wallace Stevens who was an accountant (or some such) most of his life and somehow found time to write great poetry. There of plenty of other examples of that.

Is human literacy declining? Does that affect poetry? I've worked to promote literacy for years--it's my career, and I can quote a dozen reports like the one flyguy noted from the National Center for Education Statistics to indicate young peoples' literacy is, at best, stagnant. But keep in mind that until very recently, historically, literacy was a luxury. There were no "standards" for it 200 years ago. Poor children or enslaved children (in the USA or countless examples throughout history--even in the so-called great civilizations) had almost no opportunity to be literate. And yet people from all walks of life have always written great poetry--they still do.

So how is the notion of a decline relevent? Who here supports him or herself writing poetry? Do you write poetry for money or fame? Of course it would be marvelous to have both (I guess, lol), but does the lack of them keep you from writing? I write because I need to write. It's just part of who I am.

 

[Sabina_Tolchovsky]

Not that it matters, purely semantical but Wallace Stevens was a lawyer that moved into the insurance business. He would write poems in his head as he walked to work and then dictate them to his secretary when he arrived. He did not acheive nortirity for his poetry until his 75th year, which is when his first book of poetry was published.
I guess my point is that most well know poets come from very humble roots...John Keats was the son of a stable keeper...Ezra Pound was born in Hailey, Idaho. Where the hell is Hailey? Anybody know? So it is thus that greatness can come from modest beginings...Which is why the common man should be encouraged to write and read. Let's start the World Literacy Renaissance, and face it, the only way we can bring poetry back (to a golden age or any other) is to help it grow.
So to this I say...Hell yes it is relevant wether or not poetry is in decline.

and in answer to WSO's post earlier about a whole bunch of crappy poets out there...I have to agree with BB and say that only out of the whole batch of milk can the cream rise to the top.

 

[wildsweetone]

Not that it matters, purely semantical but Wallace Stevens was a lawyer that moved into the insurance business. He would write poems in his head as he walked to work and then dictate them to his secretary when he arrived. He did not acheive nortirity for his poetry until his 75th year, which is when his first book of poetry was published.
I guess my point is that most well know poets come from very humble roots...John Keats was the son of a stable keeper...Ezra Pound was born in Hailey, Idaho. Where the hell is Hailey? Anybody know? So it is thus that greatness can come from modest beginings...Which is why the common man should be encouraged to write and read. Let's start the World Literacy Renaissance, and face it, the only way we can bring poetry back (to a golden age or any other) is to help it grow.
So to this I say...Hell yes it is relevant wether or not poetry is in decline.

and in answer to WSO's post earlier about a whole bunch of crappy poets out there...I have to agree with BB and say that only out of the whole batch of milk can the cream rise to the top.

i feel like saying BUT BUT BUT!!!! i didn't say that.

i was trying to quote some essay i'd read recently where the guy who wrote it said there were lots of bad poetry out there.

and then i thought, and i know full well that i'm not a judge of good or bad, but (there's that but again) but there really is some crappy poetry out there. but (again?!) to the person who wrote them, they will seem like golden ingots, and i respect that.

okay i feel better now.

 

[Angeline]

Not that it matters, purely semantical but Wallace Stevens was a lawyer that moved into the insurance business. He would write poems in his head as he walked to work and then dictate them to his secretary when he arrived. He did not acheive nortirity for his poetry until his 75th year, which is when his first book of poetry was published.
I guess my point is that most well know poets come from very humble roots...John Keats was the son of a stable keeper...Ezra Pound was born in Hailey, Idaho. Where the hell is Hailey? Anybody know? So it is thus that greatness can come from modest beginings...Which is why the common man should be encouraged to write and read. Let's start the World Literacy Renaissance, and face it, the only way we can bring poetry back (to a golden age or any other) is to help it grow.
So to this I say...Hell yes it is relevant wether or not poetry is in decline.

and in answer to WSO's post earlier about a whole bunch of crappy poets out there...I have to agree with BB and say that only out of the whole batch of milk can the cream rise to the top.

Well, I teach kids to read and most of them react pretty poorly to the word "poetry." Not that that stops me from trying to teach it. I think success has to do with what types of poetry kids are exposed to at what age and how enthusiastically it's taught. Little kids love poets like Shel Silverstein because it's musical and funny; teenagers often do well with the notion of lyrics as poetry--at least as a starting point. It is very rewarding though to work with a child who says he hates poetry and find a way to make him understand what images in a particular poem mean and how language can be powerful and moving. (And I say "he" because in my experience, girl students are usually more open to reading a poem than boy students--dunno why exactly, just my experience).

Literacy is another story--so to speak. I can work my heart out with a kid, trying to teach reading and reach a bright little mind and get a good response. If that child goes home to a place where no one values reading though, it's pretty hard to sustain interest. I think the single most important thing one can do to promote literacy is value books: have them around, read to kids or just read around them, give them books as valued gifts--y'know nice hardback well-illustrated ones on subjects of interest.

Oh and I thought I was wrong about Stevens' profession, but I was too lazy to look it up.

 

[Sabina_Tolchovsky]

Well, I teach kids to read and most of them react pretty poorly to the word "poetry." Not that that stops me from trying to teach it. I think success has to do with what types of poetry kids are exposed to at what age and how enthusiastically it's taught. Little kids love poets like Shel Silverstein because it's musical and funny; teenagers often do well with the notion of lyrics as poetry--at least as a starting point. It is very rewarding though to work with a child who says he hates poetry and find a way to make him understand what images in a particular poem mean and how language can be powerful and moving. (And I say "he" because in my experience, girl students are usually more open to reading a poem than boy students--dunno why exactly, just my experience).

Literacy is another story--so to speak. I can work my heart out with a kid, trying to teach reading and reach a bright little mind and get a good response. If that child goes home to a place where no one values reading though, it's pretty hard to sustain interest. I think the single most important thing one can do to promote literacy is value books: have them around, read to kids or just read around them, give them books as valued gifts--y'know nice hardback well-illustrated ones on subjects of interest.

Oh and I thought I was wrong about Stevens' profession, but I was too lazy to look it up.

It was funny because I was just reading (about) Stevens yesterday...
I whole heartedly agree with you about promoting literacy, I think that it should start in the home. Parents should be encouraged to develop their tastes in literature as they (and their children) get older. So many times though I see people just stop reading and promoting reading in their older children. It's more than just reading some kids story to your toddler as they grow...parents should be showing children more than just the basics.
It's the blue collar people that should be learning more about literature...since they are the ones that seem to be breeding all over the place. (woops, did I say that out loud?) damn.

 

[Sabina_Tolchovsky]

i feel like saying BUT BUT BUT!!!! i didn't say that.

i was trying to quote some essay i'd read recently where the guy who wrote it said there were lots of bad poetry out there.

and then i thought, and i know full well that i'm not a judge of good or bad, but (there's that but again) but there really is some crappy poetry out there. but (again?!) to the person who wrote them, they will seem like golden ingots, and i respect that.

okay i feel better now.

I know "you" didn't say that...it was just in your post, guilt by association that's all