Is It Now Offical...We Have Gone Crazy?.....

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Is It Now Offical...We Have Gone Crazy?.....

.....Man shocked by arrest after daughter draws picture of gun at school
the mayhem that saw a man arrested at his daughter’s school this week...

KITCHENER — A Kitchener father is upset that police arrested him at his children’s’ school Wednesday, hauled him down to the station and strip-searched him, all because his four-year-old daughter drew a picture of a gun at school.

“I’m picking up my kids and then, next thing you know, I’m locked up,” Jessie Sansone, 26, said Thursday.

“I was in shock. This is completely insane. My daughter drew a gun on a piece of paper at school.”

The school principal, police and child welfare officials, however, all stand by their actions. They said they had to investigate to determine whether there was a gun in Sansone’s house that children had access to.

“From a public safety point of view, any child drawing a picture of guns and saying there’s guns in a home would warrant some further conversation with the parents and child,” said Alison Scott, executive director of Family and Children’s Services.

Waterloo Regional Police Insp. Kevin Thaler said there was a complaint from Forest Hills public school that “a firearm was in a residence and children had access to it. We had every concern, based on this information, that children were in danger.”

Their concern wasn’t based on the drawing alone, he said.

Neaveh, the child who made the drawing, also made comments about it that raised more flags.

Sansone thinks police overreacted. He didn’t find out until hours after his arrest what had actually sparked the incident.

He said he went to the school Wednesday afternoon to pick up his three children. He was summoned to the principal’s office where three police officers were waiting. They said he was being charged with possession of a firearm.

He was escorted from the school, handcuffed and put in the back of a cruiser.

At the same time, other police officers went to his home, where his wife and 15-month-old child were waiting for his return.

They made his wife come to the police station while the other three children were taken to Family and Children’s Services to be interviewed.

“Nobody was given any explanation,” said his wife, Stephanie Squires. “I didn’t know why he was being arrested.

“He had absolutely no idea what this was even about. I just kept telling them. ‘You’re making a mistake.’ ”

At the police station, Sansone talked to a lawyer who said only that he was being charged with possession of a firearm, Sansone said.

He kept asking questions. He was given a blanket and told he would appear before a judge in the morning to post bail.

“I was getting pretty scared at that point,” Sansone said. “It seemed like I was actually being charged at this point.”

He was forced to remove his clothes for a full strip search.

Several hours later, a detective apologized and said he was being released with no charges, Sansone said.

The detective told him that his four-year-old daughter had drawn a picture of a man holding a gun. When a teacher asked her who the man was, the girl replied, “That’s my daddy’s. He uses it to shoot bad guys and monsters.”

“To be honest with you, I broke down,” Sansone said. “My character got put down so much. I was actually really hurt, like it could happen that easy.

“How do you recognize a criminal from a father?’’

He said he thought he had good relations with the principal who offered him a job last year counselling students at the school.

“We’re educated,’’ he said. “I’m a certified PSW (personal support worker) and a life issues counsellor. I go into schools to try to make a difference.’’

After he was released, Sansone was asked to sign a paper authorizing a search of his home. He signed, even though he didn’t have to, he said.

“I just think they blew it out of proportion,’’ Squires said. “It was for absolutely nothing. They searched our house upside down and found nothing. They had the assumption he owned a firearm.

“The way everything happened was completely unnecessary, especially since we know the school very well. I don’t understand how they came to that conclusion from a four-year-old’s drawing.’’

Scott, of Family and Children’s Services, said the agency was obligated to investigate after getting a report from the school.

“Our community would have an expectation if comments are made about a gun in a house, we’d be obligated to investigate that to ensure everything is safe.”

If there’s a potential crime that’s been committed, the agency must call in police, she said

“In the end, it may not be substantiated. There may be a reasonable explanation for why the child drew that gun. But we have to go on what gets presented to us.

“I’m sure this was a very stressful thing for the family,” she acknowledged.

The school principal, Steve Zack, said a staff member called child welfare officials because the law requires them to report anything involving the safety or neglect of a child.

The agency chose to involve police, he said.

“Police chose to arrest Jessie here. Nobody wants something like this to happen at any time, especially not at school. But that’s out of my hands.”

Sansone says he got into some trouble with the law five years ago, and was convicted of assault and attempted burglary. But he’s put all that behind him. He never had any firearms-related charges.

As for the strip search, Thaler said it was done “for officer safety, because it’s a firearms-related incident.

“At the point in the investigation when it was determined it was not a real firearm, the individual was released unconditionally,” he said.


.....Man shocked by arrest after daughter draws picture of gun at school
the mayhem that saw a man arrested at his daughter’s school this week...
KITCHENER — A Kitchener father is upset that police arrested him at his children’s’ school Wednesday, hauled him down to the station and strip-searched him, all because his four-year-old daughter drew a picture of a gun at school.

“I’m picking up my kids and then, next thing you know, I’m locked up,” Jessie Sansone, 26, said Thursday.

“I was in shock. This is completely insane. My daughter drew a gun on a piece of paper at school.”

The school principal, police and child welfare officials, however, all stand by their actions. They said they had to investigate to determine whether there was a gun in Sansone’s house that children had access to.

“From a public safety point of view, any child drawing a picture of guns and saying there’s guns in a home would warrant some further conversation with the parents and child,” said Alison Scott, executive director of Family and Children’s Services.

Waterloo Regional Police Insp. Kevin Thaler said there was a complaint from Forest Hills public school that “a firearm was in a residence and children had access to it. We had every concern, based on this information, that children were in danger.”

Their concern wasn’t based on the drawing alone, he said.

Neaveh, the child who made the drawing, also made comments about it that raised more flags.

Sansone thinks police overreacted. He didn’t find out until hours after his arrest what had actually sparked the incident.

He said he went to the school Wednesday afternoon to pick up his three children. He was summoned to the principal’s office where three police officers were waiting. They said he was being charged with possession of a firearm.

He was escorted from the school, handcuffed and put in the back of a cruiser.

At the same time, other police officers went to his home, where his wife and 15-month-old child were waiting for his return.

They made his wife come to the police station while the other three children were taken to Family and Children’s Services to be interviewed.

“Nobody was given any explanation,” said his wife, Stephanie Squires. “I didn’t know why he was being arrested.

“He had absolutely no idea what this was even about. I just kept telling them. ‘You’re making a mistake.’ ”

At the police station, Sansone talked to a lawyer who said only that he was being charged with possession of a firearm, Sansone said.

He kept asking questions. He was given a blanket and told he would appear before a judge in the morning to post bail.

“I was getting pretty scared at that point,” Sansone said. “It seemed like I was actually being charged at this point.”

He was forced to remove his clothes for a full strip search.

Several hours later, a detective apologized and said he was being released with no charges, Sansone said.

The detective told him that his four-year-old daughter had drawn a picture of a man holding a gun. When a teacher asked her who the man was, the girl replied, “That’s my daddy’s. He uses it to shoot bad guys and monsters.”

“To be honest with you, I broke down,” Sansone said. “My character got put down so much. I was actually really hurt, like it could happen that easy.

“How do you recognize a criminal from a father?’’

He said he thought he had good relations with the principal who offered him a job last year counselling students at the school.

“We’re educated,’’ he said. “I’m a certified PSW (personal support worker) and a life issues counsellor. I go into schools to try to make a difference.’’

After he was released, Sansone was asked to sign a paper authorizing a search of his home. He signed, even though he didn’t have to, he said.

“I just think they blew it out of proportion,’’ Squires said. “It was for absolutely nothing. They searched our house upside down and found nothing. They had the assumption he owned a firearm.

“The way everything happened was completely unnecessary, especially since we know the school very well. I don’t understand how they came to that conclusion from a four-year-old’s drawing.’’

Scott, of Family and Children’s Services, said the agency was obligated to investigate after getting a report from the school.

“Our community would have an expectation if comments are made about a gun in a house, we’d be obligated to investigate that to ensure everything is safe.”

If there’s a potential crime that’s been committed, the agency must call in police, she said

“In the end, it may not be substantiated. There may be a reasonable explanation for why the child drew that gun. But we have to go on what gets presented to us.

“I’m sure this was a very stressful thing for the family,” she acknowledged.

The school principal, Steve Zack, said a staff member called child welfare officials because the law requires them to report anything involving the safety or neglect of a child.

The agency chose to involve police, he said.

“Police chose to arrest Jessie here. Nobody wants something like this to happen at any time, especially not at school. But that’s out of my hands.”

Sansone says he got into some trouble with the law five years ago, and was convicted of assault and attempted burglary. But he’s put all that behind him. He never had any firearms-related charges.

As for the strip search, Thaler said it was done “for officer safety, because it’s a firearms-related incident.

“At the point in the investigation when it was determined it was not a real firearm, the individual was released unconditionally,” he said.
 
Jesus fucking Christ- is this a real thing?

First off- there's absolutely nothing wrong with teaching a child to shoot. I learned to shoot when I was three- I went hunting around the same time; though that was stupid, because I was three, and just scared shit off. My little brother also learned when he was three- and promptly shot all the windows and the blue lights out of my dad's car. Neither of us have ever had an accidental discharge. My youngest brother, who is 12 now is a crack shot, and can draw a gun like nobody's buisness, and has been drawing them since preschool. It is in no way illegal to draw a gun, have a gun in your house, or give one to a kid unless you do it unsupervised. This pisses me right off. I don't even know what to be more pissed about- the artist in me is pissed at the censorship, the child advocate is pissed at the kids being put into protective custody and putting this family through shit, and the country boy in me is pissed that anyone would insinuate that having a gun in your house with kids, or giving a kid a gun is an arrestable offense. None of that makes any sense. When I think kids with guns, I think of smiling faces and family togetherness- images like these;

http://www.biggamehunt.net/graphics/photos_talltales/b_grossman_kids_hunting2.jpghttp://www.southtexashuntingclub.com/jaydenMVC-003S.JPGhttp://southernfingerlakesoutfitters.com/Images/YouthDaySuccess.jpghttp://content.answcdn.com/main/content/img/shutterstock/b/o/boy_hunting_with_gun_.jpghttp://image1.masterfile.com/em_w/01/12/06/600-01120681w.jpg

Hell, there are some really good companies who make "youth sized" hunting rifles and other firearms, http://ocshooters.com/Gen/kidshooting/youth-firearms.htm

Even if he had possessed a firearm, there's nothing illegal about that!
 
they didn't charge him with murdering bad guys and hunting monsters without a licence? that wasn't very thorough!
 
Follow up story-
Gun leading to dad’s arrest was a toy
Feb 24 2012

Sansone’s four-year-old daughter Neaveh had drawn a picture of a man holding a gun and said it was her daddy,
triggering fears that the family home contained a weapon that was a threat to the children.

*Insp. Kevin Thaler said investigators never saw the drawing that sparked the investigation.
*Sansone, the father who was arrested, has not seen the drawing
*Gregg Bereznick, the Waterloo Region District School Board’s superintendent of education, won’t acknowledge a drawing exists.
*Alison Scott, the executive director of Family and Children’s Services, says the agency may or may not have a copy of the child’s drawing.


The school principal, Steve Zack, said a staff member called child welfare officials, because-
the law requires them to report anything involving the safety or neglect of a child.

The agency chose to involve police, he said.

*Three of the children were taken to Family and Children’s Services to be interviewed.

*Based on interviews with the children and school staff, regional police believed there was a real gun in the family home and the children were in danger.

“Police chose to arrest Jessie here. Nobody wants something like this to happen at any time, especially not at school. But that’s out of my hands.”

*Investigators told Insp. Kevin Thaler they were convinced there was a threat based on the “jaw-dropping” accuracy of the description of a semi-automatic gun.

*After more interviews, police determined the weapon was likely a toy gun. After Sansone was released, he allowed police to search his home.

Sansone says he got into some trouble with the law five years ago, and was convicted of assault
and attempted burglary. But he’s put all that behind him. He never had any firearms-related charges.

As for the strip search, Thaler said it was done “for officer safety, because it’s a firearms-related incident.

* A partly transparent, plastic gun was eventually located. Stephanie Squires said the gun shoots small plastic pellets that look like “tiny purple candy gum balls.”
However, there were never any pellets in the home. The gun had been left behind by her brother, who used to live with the family.

*** On Friday Squires used the toy gun, which investigators left behind, to hammer some nails. She figures she’ll throw it away.

“It caused all this nonsense,” Stephanie Squires (Sansone’s wife and mother of the children) said. “I don’t even want it in the house anymore.”

***Stephanie Squires held the toy in her hand (after all the fuss was over.)

“You can see springs in it and everything,” said Stephanie Squire, who is five months pregnant with the couple’s fifth child. “You can totally see it’s not a real gun.”

But getting rid of the gun doesn’t mean the case is closed.

“We’re still investigating this one,” *Alison Scott, the executive director of Family and Children’s Services, said.

http://www.therecord.com/news/local/article/676744--gun-leading-to-dad-s-arrest-was-a-toy
 
I'm still trying to figure out why it would be illegal to have a real gun in your house. Or to give one to your kids.
 
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Good grief. They definitely went way overboard on this. Since, at least so far, it's a constitutional right to have a firearm in a private home, there should never have been an arrest. I can see questioning someone if there's a legitimate concern, but not arresting him at his children's school, dragging his wife in, and putting those children into protective custody - all before they have even a shred of proof there's any problem. The drawings and stories of a 4 year old child are not proof, and are of questionable reliability. Especially if this family is as well known to the school and stable as they appear. Plenty of people would be calling a lawyer to file false arrest and harassment suits, and they sure wouldn't have signed that search release after the fact. I can agree that a school should report concerns, but it sounds like they should have thought this one through before acting on it...and the police, once called, could have handled it a lot better. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
 
Zero Tolerance

War on Parents



What was it last week? four year old had her lunch taken away from her...
 
I believe it. Things are outta control, and much of it is old fashioned COVER YOUR ASS precautions. Child Welfare is mebbe the biggest amount of money gubmint spends, and when kids die people naturally wonder whether its money wasted. Cops, lawyers, therapists, social workers, et al really prefer to snatch kids and let a judge sort it out.
 
Good grief. They definitely went way overboard on this. Since, at least so far, it's a constitutional right to have a firearm in a private home, there should never have been an arrest. I can see questioning someone if there's a legitimate concern, but not arresting him at his children's school, dragging his wife in, and putting those children into protective custody - all before they have even a shred of proof there's any problem. The drawings and stories of a 4 year old child are not proof, and are of questionable reliability. Especially if this family is as well known to the school and stable as they appear. Plenty of people would be calling a lawyer to file false arrest and harassment suits, and they sure wouldn't have signed that search release after the fact. I can agree that a school should report concerns, but it sounds like they should have thought this one through before acting on it...and the police, once called, could have handled it a lot better. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

The Supreme Court has ruled many times that the 4th Amendment applies especially to children, that cops cannot seize children without the threat of immediate danger. That means they gotta catch mom or dad with knife in hand poised to strike Sis or Junior. Or they gotta see blood on the kids. Or something obvious enough to scare the average adult.

You cant take a child outta the home cuz there aint no running water or power or food, or we'd be taking kids from every camp and campground in America. 'Access' to stuff is the legal standard. If a kid has access to a gun thats a problem. If a kid has access to potable water that aint a problem. Proximity aint the issue, access is.
 
Sorry, kiddies....this happened in Canada. Our Constitution doesn't apply there.
 
Yeah you're probably right, no problem here.

Obama revives talk of U.N. gun control
NRA guests warn international treaty would strip 2nd Amendment rights

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 14, 2009
7:05 pm Eastern


By Drew Zahn
© 2009 WorldNetDaily




United Nations headquarters

Gun rights supporters are up in arms over a pair of moves the White House made last month to reverse longstanding U.S. policy and begin negotiating a gun control treaty with the United Nations.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton first announced on Oct. 14 that the U.S. had changed its stance and would support negotiations of an Arms Trade Treaty to regulate international gun trafficking, a measure the Bush administration and, notably, former Permanent U.S. Representative to the United Nations John Bolton opposed for years.

Two weeks ago, in another reversal of policy, the U.S. joined a nearly unanimous 153-1 U.N. vote to adopt a resolution setting out a timetable on the proposed Arms Trade Treaty, including a U.N. conference to produce a final accord in 2012.

"Conventional arms transfers are a crucial national security concern for the United States, and we have always supported effective action to control the international transfer of arms," Clinton said in a statement. "The United States is prepared to work hard for a strong international standard in this area."

Gun rights advocates, however, are calling the reversal both a dangerous submission of America's Constitution to international governance and an attempt by the Obama administration to sneak into effect private gun control laws it couldn't pass through Congress.

'Shooting Back' tells of lives saved from attackers. Learn the Bible's defense of bearing arms from a man who defended his church from terrorists

Bolton, for example, told Ginny Simone, managing editor of the National Rifle Association's NRA News and host of the NRA's Daily News program, "The administration is trying to act as though this is really just a treaty about international arms trade between nation states, but there's no doubt – as was the case back over a decade ago – that the real agenda here is domestic firearms control."

He continued, “There’s never been any doubt when these groups talk about saying they only want to prohibit illicit international trafficking in small arms and light weapons, it begs the whole question of what’s legal and what’s not legal. And many of the implications of these treaty negotiations are very much in their domestic application. So, whatever the appearance on the surface, there’s no doubt that domestic firearm control is right at the top of their agenda.”


Brian Wood, disarmament expert for Amnesty International, explained in a Bloomberg report why his organization and others are pushing for the U.S. to join Arms Trade Treaty talks. Wood said the U.S. is the largest conventional arms trader in the world and the unregulated trade of conventional arms “can fuel instability, transnational organized crime and terrorism.”

“All countries participate in the conventional arms trade and share responsibility for the ‘collateral damage’ it produces – widespread death, injuries and human rights abuses,” said Rebecca Peters, director of the International Action Network on Small Arms in an Agence France-Presse interview. “Now finally governments have agreed to negotiate legally binding global controls on this deadly trade.”

But Bob Barr, a former U.S. representative and presidential candidate of the Libertarian Party, explained in a separate interview with the NRA’s Simone how a treaty that looks like it’s all about fighting international crime will necessarily lead to erosion of Second Amendment gun rights:

“Even though [treaty advocates] all say, ‘We are not going to involve domestic laws and the right to keep and bear arms, that won’t be affected by all this,’ that’s nonsense,” Barr said. “There’s no way that if you buy into something like this and a treaty is passed regulating to ensure that firearms transfers internationally don’t fall into the hands of people that the U.N. doesn’t like, there’s no way that that mechanism will work unless you have some form of national regulation and national tracking.”

Bolton not only agrees with Barr’s assessment but also sees the treaty as an Obama administration end-run around the Constitution:

“After the treaty is approved and it comes into force, you will find out that it has this implication or that implication and it requires the Congress to adopt some measure that restricts ownership of firearms,” he said. “The administration knows it cannot obtain this kind of legislation purely in a domestic context. … They will use an international agreement as an excuse to get domestically what they couldn’t otherwise.”

Clinton’s October statement of support for the treaty negotiations was filed with a caveat that the Conference on the Arms Trade Treaty operate under the consensus rule of decision-making, essentially that its provisions be adopted unanimously.

“Consensus is needed to ensure the widest possible support for the treaty,” she stated, “and to avoid loopholes in the treaty that can be exploited by those wishing to export arms irresponsibly.”

But Bolton warned gun owners not to think the consensus rule will stop the treaty from passing.

“Consensus at the U.N. is a way of saying unanimity, everybody agrees, but in fact, the U.N. in the last eight years could have been very close to consensus on exactly this kind of treaty but for the Bush administration,” Bolton said. “So I don’t think her comment about consensus offers Second Amendment supporters any consolation, because absent the United States, nobody is really going to put up an objection to this.”

Citizens wishing to speak out on the issue can contact the State Department or the National Rifle Association.
 
...We Have Gone Crazy?.....

You know what's even more crazy?

When so many folks who have voluntarily ceded so many vital individual liberties so they, their families and their nation will be more "secure"...

...go crazy about their liberties being violated when they get exactly the "security" they wanted and allowed.

The tyrannical genie was fully welcomed out of the bottle 10 and a half years ago in the holy name of security...

...putting that tyranny back where it belongs is the toughest chore America has ever faced.

And every day that passes now suggests America ain't up to the job...
 
The Supreme Court has ruled many times that the 4th Amendment applies especially to children, that cops cannot seize children without the threat of immediate danger. That means they gotta catch mom or dad with knife in hand poised to strike Sis or Junior. Or they gotta see blood on the kids. Or something obvious enough to scare the average adult.

You cant take a child outta the home cuz there aint no running water or power or food, or we'd be taking kids from every camp and campground in America. 'Access' to stuff is the legal standard. If a kid has access to a gun thats a problem. If a kid has access to potable water that aint a problem. Proximity aint the issue, access is.

It was in Kitchener, Ontario, dipshit.
 
That fact that so many of you idiots that went on here trying to prove how much you know didn't bother to actually read the article and see it was in Canada is fucking hilarious. Fucking morons.
 
The only idiots involved here are the Teachers and Social workers from Southern Ontario.

I am so glad i moved away from that shithole 11 years ago.
 
Almost as good as the one Babbabysitter made yesterday believing the Landover Baptist site was real. Even insisting it was after I told the idiot it was fake.

Stupid people are funny.

I have that one on ignore. It just plays with the rories, which annoys me.
 
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