Is D/s Abuse?

[Richard49]

A few months ago, as many of you know, I entered into a relationship with a beautiful and wonderful woman ...
prior to "us" she had only fantaszed about BDSM

Her name is Rachel

We have had a wonderful sex life.

A couple of weeks ago she put much of our relationship
on hold .. in part because she has become concerned
that D/s is a form of abuse because of the contol factors

Any thoughts ... comments ... websites etc.

Richard M. Ask
Certified Herb Specialists


(This post was edited by cym only to remove Richard's email addy.)

 

[MissTaken]

Send her my way, Richard.

We could talk.

No, it isn't abuse.

What can be abusive about something that you consent to?

 

[Red Menace]

I think most (all?) of us would say it is definitely NOT abuse. But our thoughts aren't nearly as important as her perceptions.

She had been thinking about it previously... was it a case of "good concept, bad reality" for her? Was it moving faster than she was comfortable with? Is she dealing with feelings of guilt or disgust for something that violates the sociatal norms?

There could be many reasons she had such a reaction... none of which has anything to do with abuse. She consented, right? Right?? And was receiving pleasure from it? I see no abuse here.

Are you two still talking? I hope things can still work out for you...

 

[Desdemona]

I agree with Miss T. Consensual BDSM is not abuse.

 

[lovetoread]

It is not abuse.

But it can be abused.

One can,after finding out that reality isnt anything like a fantasy,seem to think that every word,order,suggestion,etc is nothing more than a way to control you.

I think the problem is more that fantasy cannot live up to reality.

 

[WriterDom]

If it leaves one person feeling bad it's abuse. If both people feel good it's not. Some women aren't wired for bdsm. Hell, some have anti-bdsm airbags installed in their breasts.

 

[Ricckk]

Is it the D/s or the BDSM that she is concerned about? Or both?

 

[Richard49]

Send her my way, Richard.

We could talk.

No, it isn't abuse.

What can be abusive about something that you consent to?

The Womens Resourse Cneters accross the country would say
that abused women stay in the abuse as voluntars

Psssst .. Miss Taken .... how do I send her your way?

Righ now I am giving her lots of space, time and distance.
Though we live close we are only commuicating via email

 

[Richard49]

I think most (all?) of us would say it is definitely NOT abuse. But our thoughts aren't nearly as important as her perceptions.

She had been thinking about it previously... was it a case of "good concept, bad reality" for her? Was it moving faster than she was comfortable with? Is she dealing with feelings of guilt or disgust for something that violates the sociatal norms?

There could be many reasons she had such a reaction... none of which has anything to do with abuse. She consented, right? Right?? And was receiving pleasure from it? I see no abuse here.

Are you two still talking? I hope things can still work out for you...

She consented
She REALLY enjoyed things

 

[Richard49]

It is not abuse.

But it can be abused.

One can,after finding out that reality isnt anything like a fantasy,seem to think that every word,order,suggestion,etc is nothing more than a way to control you.

I think the problem is more that fantasy cannot live up to reality.

We did run into a problem of me saying something as a suggestion,tip
whatever
and her feeling she HAD to do something
however she did not share that she had felt this way
till this whole discussion surfaced

 

[Richard49]

Is it the D/s or the BDSM that she is concerned about? Or both?

more the D/s

 

[Richard49]

I recieved this privatly
I will post it and than below it ask another question

Everything in our lives and life experience has to be put into context. What
maybe abuse for one may not be abuse for another.
D/s requires extensive self-knowledge... with this knowledge, generally
comes self-love and self-respect.. With this self-knowledge one has the
information with which to discern if something is abuse for them.
Abuse in this context can not be determined by social standards as
individuality is not taken into consideration.
When one has issues with "control" on either end of the spectrum there is,
many times, historical abuse issues involved. This is where the
self-knowledge helps to clarify what is abuse and what is not.
muse

So we have been moving along for months and it=f the above is true
and she is having a
"I need to know me problem"

How can we still have ... well .. what can we still have?

 

[~*sunkyssed_kym*~]

Abuse to me is......

The way my ex used his fists on me when he drank.
What MY-Sir and I enjoy is consensual on both of our parts. If it wasn't fun, then why the hell persue it???

As I stated in another thread, I would not allow for anyone to touch me now, if I didn't wish for HIM to.
As fror HIM controlling me? I freely submit to HIS control. HE doesn't force it on me.
So there you go Richard. My .02 cents worth.

 

[~*sunkyssed_kym*~]

What it sounds to me is..............

We did run into a problem of me saying something as a suggestion,tip
whatever
and her feeling she HAD to do something
however she did not share that she had felt this way
till this whole discussion surfaced

A major lack of communication. #1 thing MY-Sir and I share. Then comes honesty.

 

[Trainerman]

My 2 pence worth.....

I would particularly echo MissT, Des and Red Menace...not that I disagree with any so far.

I am a male from a family where my father regularly abused my mother. That is...as in hitting..controlling by emotional blackmail or keeping tight control of the finances. As far as a teenager can tell, I think there was also sexual abuse of her (never of me or my sibling) I do KNOW that there was a similar pattern with HIS father and brothers.

Yet...I have never hit a woman in my life (except in play, of course). I do not try to control (except in consensual terms) and no emotional blackmail (intentionally anyway)

So, having seen much abuse....I do not see what I do with K as abuse and neither does she. Why? I think a simple answer is that we both feel as if we are normal, loving people who simply have an extra dimension in our relationship. This is not abuse..it is a further way of our each giving something more to the other....in a caring (YES) way. A further way of showing and giving affection...not the reverse


Richard...I hope it works out well for you



Dave

 

[Richard49]

Re: Abuse to me is......

The way my ex used his fists on me when he drank.
What MY-Sir and I enjoy is consensual on both of our parts. If it wasn't fun, then why the hell persue it???

As I stated in another thread, I would not allow for anyone to touch me now, if I didn't wish for HIM to.
As fror HIM controlling me? I freely submit to HIS control. HE doesn't force it on me.
So there you go Richard. My .02 cents worth.

Sounds like a $1.298

Thank you for your impute
Keep it coming

 

[Richard49]

Re: What it sounds to me is..............

A major lack of communication. #1 thing MY-Sir and I share. Then comes honesty.

one can only share that honesty is wanted
one can not make another honest

 

[Richard49]

Re: My 2 pence worth.....

\

Richard...I hope it works out well for you



Dave

me too

BTW I sent her your Jedi thingy
she posted me that it made her laugh

 

[Trainerman]

Re: Re: My 2 pence worth.....

me too

BTW I sent her your Jedi thingy
she posted me that it made her laugh

Wish I could take the credit for that...but I nicked it off Spectre T...and where the hell he got it I don't know. Perhaps he will amble by and let us know.

Dave

 

[cymbidia]

Richard, you've always seemed to be a thoughtful man, a caring kind of dominant. Quite frankly, i can't see you crossing the use/abuse line and not knowing that something was wrong.

Perhaps, since she's new to all this, she's just realizing some deeper truths about herself and it's freaking her out so badly that she's fleeing? The word "abuse" is a flag in our world today. Anything tagged "abuse" is an instant stop, an instant red flag, an instant cessation in all that was occurring. It's a safe word, Richard, like screaming RED! between one cane snap and the next.

It's got to be very hard to watch someone you care for freak out like this, and have them be unwilling to let you close enough to help. For your own headspace, then, might i suggest you do some research into the line between use and abuse as it pertains to D/s BDSM relationships? Maybe finding something good to read will help you--and you can send it on to her, too. Maybe it will help her clarify her thoughts on the matter.

Here are a couple links to threads we've had on this subject in the last few months, Richard, as a starting place:
http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=83224

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=80649&highlight=abuse+BDSM+line

One last question, Richard. Since the word "abuse" is such a major stop word for us all, BDSM'er or not, could it be that she's decided she just doesn't want the relationship with you anymore and doesn't know how to say that in a straightforward manner? Perhaps she feels she has no way to say that safely?

I am sorry for this latest hardship in your life, Richard, and hope it resolves itself to your satisfaction very soon.

 

[zipman]

Another Point of View

Richard,

When I first saw this thread, my heart stopped for a second. BDSM=Abuse? How can this be?

I enjoy it. It is consensual. She likes it.

The truth is, I have struggled with this same issue for a lot of years. The questions, they still come at me, usually, when I am least expecting them. They are MY questions.

Why would I get pleasure from causing someone else pain?
Why does the sight of a woman, bound and helpless excite me?
What is wrong with me?

Perhaps Rachel is feeling these same things. Asking these questions of myself and then answering them is a part of the journey that I am on in understanding myself and my sexuality.

Why does the sight of a woman, bound and helpless excite me?
I don't know. Why do feet excite someone with a foot fetish? Why are some men attracted to breasts while others like asses? It just does. That's all.

[I}Why would I get pleasure from causing someone else pain?[/I]
I don't know. It just does. It strikes a chord somewhere deep in our psyche. Does my partner enjoy it - always, or I wouldn't want to do it. I don't just hit for the sake of hitting. That is abuse. I spank or whip someone in the CONTEXT of a sexual encounter. It brings us both pleasure. Otherwise it would just be hitting. Otherwise it would just be abuse. It excites me. It just does.

What is wrong with me?
Nothing. Nothing at all. I just have different tastes.

The point I am getting at is that perhaps she is struggling with these same questions. Perhaps they are her questions or perhaps someone else asked her about it. I sometimes wonder about how I would explain this to a 'nilla person. Perhaps she just needs some time to get it together in her head before she can enjoy it again with you.

Because from what little I know about you, you do not seem to be the type that would want to do it if she was wondering if it was abuse. Perhaps you just need to be supportive, give her some space and ask her some simple questions.

Do you enjoy it Rachel?
Does it turn you on?
If two people do something that makes them both feel good, how can it be bad?

I hope this makes some sense. And I hope it works out for you. Keep the faith, Richard.

 

[Richard49]

Re: Re: Re: My 2 pence worth.....

Wish I could take the credit for that...but I nicked it off Spectre T...and where the hell he got it I don't know. Perhaps he will amble by and let us know.

Dave

offer him a beer or something

 

[~Dream~]

Abuse is generally..

It is not abuse.

But it can be abused.

One can,after finding out that reality isnt anything like a fantasy,seem to think that every word,order,suggestion,etc is nothing more than a way to control you.

I think the problem is more that fantasy cannot live up to reality.

________________________________________________

happening WITHOUT consent,I dont feel that d/d is abusive and believe me if I did,I'd be the first to get out.I was married for 6 years before and 3 of those years was spent getting the hell beat outtta me so I do know "firsthand what abuse really is..D/S can be and is to me a very loving and fullilling relationship..both partners give and receive what each other needs...I think it's best of all when the "fantasy" indeed BECOMES "reality"

 

[luvsubbbbb]

A few months ago, as many of you know, I entered into a relationship with a beautiful and wonderful woman ...
prior to "us" she had only fantaszed about BDSM

Her name is Rachel

We have had a wonderful sex life.

A couple of weeks ago she put much of our relationship
on hold .. in part because she has become concerned
that D/s is a form of abuse because of the contol factors

Any thoughts ... comments ... websites etc.

Richard M. Ask
Certified Herb Specialists

wow!!...this is the 3rd time today that i am having "literotica discourse" with You, Richard, and i hardly know You!!

most of us submissives in the D/s lifestyle THRIVE in situations where we are being controlled, as long as we feel safe and secure and that our needs are being met....

it seems to me that Rachel has been subjected to influences outside the realm of D/s which may have made her feel guilty about needing a form of control from You, or perhaps she was brainwashed into thinking that she was being abused......

(hhhmmm......maybe it happened the day she manipulated You into temporarily releasing her from her permanent bed chains when You let her telephone her mother on her birthday? )


(This post was edited by cym only to remove Richard's email addy.)

 

[monster666]

Richard,

I've read all your comments thus far, and I think I may possibly know what's going on. Then again, I may not. But I am going to put a few thoughts out there just in case they strike a cord.

When we enter the world of BDSM we are often challenging paradigms built over a lifetime. The roots of these paradigms are often steeped in religious beliefs, parental sheltering, peer opinion, sibling opinion or just plain old traditional thinking. There are a lot of people who think that a good relationship must consist of two partners, equally sharing power and responsibilites.

At some point these old, constricting paradigms must be dealt with in order to feel right about something new that will fly in the face of them. It sounds like she feels like she's lived out some "naughty" fantasies, and is just now questioning the rightness of them.

I have given more than a little thought to the effects of paradigms on how we conduct our lives, and they are incredibly limiting if we don't understand them and just as importantly, how to fairly evaluate and rebuild them. Often, we don't even think about a thing and have a feeling of right or wrong. With some things, it's easy. Playing badminton with newborn puppies is clearly wrong. But at some point, that clear line between right and wrong gets a lot fuzzier, and that's when conditioning has as much and often even more control over our opinions than any ability we might have to quickly and fairly evaluate an issue. A paradigm has come between us and a fair, impartial evaluation, and it must be dealt with first.

If she willingly submits to your domination out of love, trust and respect, and you don't violate that trust, then it is in no way abuse. However, if she proceeds with fear and anxiety and cannot trust, then any attempt to control her in such a situation I would say is not really consentual, and is abuse. I am not saying that some apprehension is not normal, because it surely is. You seem like the sort that full well knows the difference between that and abuse. However, if she seeks wisdom from more conventional sources (which support her old paradigms), she may come up with completely different answers.

I don't know if this helps, but I wish you and Rachel well in any event. You'll be in my thoughts.

A few months ago, as many of you know, I entered into a relationship with a beautiful and wonderful woman ...
prior to "us" she had only fantaszed about BDSM

Her name is Rachel

We have had a wonderful sex life.

A couple of weeks ago she put much of our relationship
on hold .. in part because she has become concerned
that D/s is a form of abuse because of the contol factors

Any thoughts ... comments ... websites etc.

Richard M. Ask
Certified Herb Specialists