Iraq Striking First

[JazzManJim]

a decent answer Jim, thanks. While I see that as rather an extreme chance, I am sticking with my notion of forcing his neighbors to deal with him. Peaceful measures, none of which have really been tried always trumps war. Sanctions against a tyrant are not peaceful measures. Putting international pressure on the entire region until they clean up their backyards are. If we are so strong and mighty, why has this venue not really been approached?

We actually have been.

There are a couple problems, though.

First, Hussein has more and better weapons, and is more aggressive about using them than any of his neighbors. The only nations which could possibly go toe to toe with him are Iran and Israel. Iran's government is teetering on the edge of collapse thanks to a vibrant internal democratic revolution and isn't capable of mounting any sort of effective military venture. Israel is...well...out of the question.

No one else could begin to contend with him, even if the neighbors got together and joined resources.

Political pressure is a no-go also as evidenced by the UN's impotence since 1991. If the major nations of the world can't bring sufficient political pressure to bear (half-hearted as it appears to me), then his neighbors don't stand a chance.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

We actually have been.

There are a couple problems, though.

First, Hussein has more and better weapons, and is more aggressive about using them than any of his neighbors. The only nations which could possibly go toe to toe with him are Iran and Israel. Iran's government is teetering on the edge of collapse thanks to a vibrant internal democratic revolution and isn't capable of mounting any sort of effective military venture. Israel is...well...out of the question.

No one else could begin to contend with him, even if the neighbors got together and joined resources.

Political pressure is a no-go also as evidenced by the UN's impotence since 1991. If the major nations of the world can't bring sufficient political pressure to bear (half-hearted as it appears to me), then his neighbors don't stand a chance.

you start to destroy their economy and they stand a huge chance.

Correct about the UN though. Utterly useless and incompetent.

 

[JazzManJim]

you start to destroy their economy and they stand a huge chance.

Correct about the UN though. Utterly useless and incompetent.

You're right, but the major players in their economy aren't their neighbors, they're the "great Western powers".

Leaving aside sanctions and the "food for oil" programs here (though we can tackle them later if anyone wants), what Iraq's neighbors provide economically is a drop in the ocean compared to the oil refining contracts Iraq signed with Russia, Germany, and France. France alone inked a deal worth 60 billion dollars.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

You're right, but the major players in their economy aren't their neighbors, they're the "great Western powers".

Leaving aside sanctions and the "food for oil" programs here (though we can tackle them later if anyone wants), what Iraq's neighbors provide economically is a drop in the ocean compared to the oil refining contracts Iraq signed with Russia, Germany, and France. France alone inked a deal worth 60 billion dollars.

I know the chances of peace through non violent means is like finding a virgin on a porn shoot.

But one can hope....

 

[The Plunger]

"Why now?" Seems to be the theme of the day.


So why protest this war right now?

With all do respect, I doubt anyone protesting this war was also protesting the various conflicts going on in Yugoslavia throughout the 1990's. So why now?

 

[JazzManJim]

I know the chances of peace through non violent means is like finding a virgin on a porn shoot.

But one can hope....

I'm entirely with you, man.

But having watched Hussein do what he's done for a very long time, I just don't see how it's going to happen.

 

[The Plunger]

"Why now?" Seems to be the theme of the day.


So why protest this war right now?

With all do respect, I doubt anyone protesting this war was also protesting the various conflicts going on in Yugoslavia throughout the 1990's. So why now?

Any takers?

 

[The Plunger]

From what I can tell, the anti-war crowd at this website is numerous, can anyone give a reasonable answer as to why you are protesting this war, but none of the other one's?

 

[teddybear4play]

[/I] use all the rolling eye emotes you want, you know I am right in the fact that this has everything to do with that date.

It all leads back to the very simple base question that not a soul has been able to answer, why now?

The reasons are not non compliance. He was not complying in 1992 and nothing bad happend.

Oh, what sort of threat is Iraq to the US again?

I don't think there's a soul who'd disagree with you. It does have to do with 9/11.

On that day, everything changed. Before then, the worst year for international terrorism, according to the U.S. State Department, was 1998. Guess how many people were victims of terrorism in that calendar year? Seven hundred forty-one. In that whole year. Only 12 of them were Americans, and not one of them died on U.S. soil. September 11 was four times as deadly as any year before.

It's what prompted George W. Bush, in his State Of The Union address four months later, to proclaim a new doctrine of not allowing terrorists or rogue nations to have the first crack at us before striking back.

This is why Iraq's noncompliance is so earthshatteringly important now when it wasn't for the decade following the Gulf War. If Saddam is willing to risk war to keep them, then they're not going to be for a parade.

Unfortunately, the international community is more concerned with sticking a finger in George W. Bush's eye than deposing this son of a bitch for good.

TB4p

 

[fgarvb1]

It is nice of saddam to move his shit out into the open where we can blow it to hell easier.

Like we are going to wait for him to shoot first.

 

[sufisaint]

strike first, strike fast and strike hard...time to begin...

 

[Frimost]

It's expensive to maintain tens of thousands of US troops there in the Gulf, what about Operation Desert Fox in 1998? Wrong people, Saddam has been an ongoing problem since 1991 its only since 9/11 that YOU all have been NOTICING our attention to Iraq and a potential war. It took 9/11 to wake the fuck up all the damn Yuppies who were too busty with their noses buried in stocks and bonds before they realized there was a world outside the US with hostile countries still out there that hate us and disagree with out foreign policy.

Look at this chart; do you really think Kuwait stands a chance without our protection? Hell even Saudi Arabia could be rolled-up by Iraq in an all-out Blitzkrieg by Saddam's RG and SPG with their regulars bringing up the rear. Not even Iran could do much against Saddam's juggernaut, and personally, I have seen dozens of other estimates of Saddam's troops and equipment and these look low to me, I would say a more accurate assessment of his main battle tanks for example is 2,800 minimum.


http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/graphics/attack/images/iraq_122701.gif

 

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